PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[Betty P]

The lack of serious searching for RFG seems to make this possibility less likely, in my mind. Surely, if LE even suspected it was drug related and a revenge killing, the response would have been more?

The no sign of luring via Internet or phone is also ok with me as I've hung out in a courthouse and watched the comings and goings. RFG could have been approached quietly and the message passed to him, verbally or note. Although, I feel pretty strongly that IF that happened, RFG would have told someone where he was and what was happening. It's not a meeting he would have taken without someone in his office or working on the case being told, IMO.

According to the Informant, there were other people working on the drug ring (or whatever) investigation, including the AG. A couple of them were probably aware of Ray's plan to meet with someone promising to provide more information. When he disappeared in Lewisburg, the AG probably surmised he was killed and why and decided to stay silent. They didn't trace the murder back to the criminal ring because they didn't want to meet the same fate. So they turned Ray's missing person investigation over to a small town police force with only 1 part time detective and made sure Ray's case went cold. Just a guess on my part.

Alternately, the AG or others involved may not have wanted the public to find out that the DA was killed in an investigation gone wrong.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

yes but to me most of these can be done..

someone drives the car back
ray is in the yard or basement or in another car or barrel at this point..at this point they are not gonna search the house.
someone does a favor and picks up the driver or he takes a train ( is there a train?)
3 witnesses are wrong

dammit! I know I'm crazy wrong..but I can't help it!!! my nose goes to his personal life. mOO

I will concede that the 3 witnesses from 4/16 could be wrong, but it is unlikely and that the weakest part of the refutation.

There is no passenger or commuter train in Lewisburg. There is not mass transit to Bellefonte. He would need another car and driver/

As soon as PEF called the BPD, at 11:36 PM. After that point, she has no idea what LE will do. Will they come out to the house? Will the drive past and give some extra attention to the house? It looks like she talked to her brother around 7:29 PM. That will only give them about 4 hours to do everything under this scenario.

It becomes impossible even to come up with some far fetched scenario. There would have to be 4 people involved who, on a moment's notice, decide to help cover up a homicide.

At some point, the BPD did a walk through of the house and didn't see anything.

 

[CuriousCricket]

According to the Informant, there were other people working on the drug ring (or whatever) investigation, including the AG. A couple of them were probably aware of Ray's plan to meet with someone promising to provide more information. When he disappeared in Lewisburg, the AG probably surmised he was killed and why and decided to stay silent. They didn't trace the murder back to the criminal ring because they didn't want to meet the same fate. So they turned Ray's missing person investigation over to a small town police force with only 1 part time detective and made sure Ray's case went cold. Just a guess on my part.

Alternately, the AG or others involved may not have wanted the public to find out that the DA was killed in an investigation gone wrong.

I'm sorry but I don't buy that. The FBI was involved early on and the State Police involved. I have a real problem thinking LE is that cowardly. I think they would have ramped up and doubled down. From the articles, it did seem they were trying but there was nothing to go on.

In my opinion, the only reason for a case to be left to go deliberately cold would be if someone in authority was also involved in drugs and had a real reason to be sure the case was never solved.

No, if the three sightings the next day were real, then something else was going on besides the drug hit.

I loved the thought of RFG slipping away into another life. It's got a derring-do aspect to it that is the stuff of books and movies.

The drug hit also rings somewhat true, but all the details don't fit.

The secret rendezvous and heart attack scenario also has a book/movie feel. Again, the sightings the next day don't fit.

So, what are we left with?

oh, and 18 years and almost 8 months

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Two other points on PEF:

1. She passed a polygraph.

2. She voluntary sat down, voluntarily, without a lawyer, and went over everything involving RFG with two veteran prosecutors, Buhner and McKnight; she did it for four hours. Buhner's view, PEF was "guileless."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

According to the Informant, there were other people working on the drug ring (or whatever) investigation, including the AG. A couple of them were probably aware of Ray's plan to meet with someone promising to provide more information. When he disappeared in Lewisburg, the AG probably surmised he was killed and why and decided to stay silent. They didn't trace the murder back to the criminal ring because they didn't want to meet the same fate. So they turned Ray's missing person investigation over to a small town police force with only 1 part time detective and made sure Ray's case went cold. Just a guess on my part.

Alternately, the AG or others involved may not have wanted the public to find out that the DA was killed in an investigation gone wrong.

The problem is, RFG was doing the investigation. It was initially prosecuted by MTM as the state AG's Office.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

When he disappeared in Lewisburg, the AG probably surmised he was killed and why and decided to stay silent. They didn't trace the murder back to the criminal ring because they didn't want to meet the same fate. So they turned Ray's missing person investigation over to a small town police force with only 1 part time detective and made sure Ray's case went cold. Just a guess on my part.

Alternately, the AG or others involved may not have wanted the public to find out that the DA was killed in an investigation gone wrong.

I can't tell if you are merely repeating this without using quotations or if it is solely your opinion. In either case, the statements about what the AG surmised, wanted or decided, are completely unfounded. And suggesting that the AG purposely contrived to make sure the murder of a prosecutor went unsolved by getting the investigation in the hands of a small police dept, is insulting to the AG and LE.
The case was thoroughly investigated and the so-called investigation claimed in your theory wasn't substantiated.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I will concede that the 3 witnesses from 4/16 could be wrong, but it is unlikely and that the weakest part of the refutation.

There is no passenger or commuter train in Lewisburg. There is not mass transit to Bellefonte. He would need another car and driver/

As soon as PEF called the BPD, at 11:36 PM. After that point, she has no idea what LE will do. Will they come out to the house? Will the drive past and give some extra attention to the house? It looks like she talked to her brother around 7:29 PM. That will only give them about 4 hours to do everything under this scenario.

It becomes impossible even to come up with some far fetched scenario. There would have to be 4 people involved who, on a moment's notice, decide to help cover up a homicide.

At some point, the BPD did a walk through of the house and didn't see anything.

Let's look at this. Let's not.
I had written "let's look at this" then I was able to come up with a scenario. But I've deleted my long brain exercise. While it's a mystery and intriguing brain exercise for me, for her it was a horrible time. She worked hard to help, was judged uninvolved by people there seeing the actual events unfold.

It's too bad that at 18+ years, strangers are dissecting her and that trauma in her life. My apologies to her.

Even if the timing might have been possible, other facts make her involvement impossible.

 

[CuriousCricket]

The problem is, RFG was doing the investigation. It was initially prosecuted by MTM as the state AG's Office.

What kind of investigation was it?

 

[CuriousCricket]

Two other points on PEF:

1. She passed a polygraph.

2. She voluntary sat down, voluntarily, without a lawyer, and went over everything involving RFG with two veteran prosecutors, Buhner and McKnight; she did it for four hours. Buhner's view, PEF was "guileless."

She sounds completely innocent and cooperative. Trying to do whatever was needed from her to help solve the case.

 

[Sweetluv]

When Ray called Patty to say he was heading to Lewisburg, did he say why he was going there or did she ask? Why, if the mini Cooper was for Patty, was Ray driving it ? Why not just give it to her...or did he buy it for himself and get her name on the vanity plate knowing it would someday go to her?
The smoke and ash could be from the passenger window being down or cracked open and someone talking to him while smoking leaning in the window.

 

[CuriousCricket]

DBM

 

[Sweetluv]

The computer and hard drive is found destroyed...such a coincidence that his home computer showed a search of that close to his disappearance time frame. Why would you take your keys and wallet, but leave your cell phone (turned off) in your car? Sorry with all the questions, just brainstorming.

 

[CuriousCricket]

The computer and hard drive is found destroyed...such a coincidence that his home computer showed a search of that close to his disappearance time frame. Why would you take your keys and wallet, but leave your cell phone (turned off) in your car? Sorry with all the questions, just brainstorming.

I think we're all brainstorming. If he walked away, I'm guessing financial information and possibly information about his new life were in that computer. Yes, interesting that he was researching how to destroy a computer hard drive. Interesting too that he left the search findable

Taking the keys is interesting. Perhaps keeping as a memento. More likely, perhaps, he just absent-mindedly stuck them in his pocket.

Left the phone because he no longer needed it and didn't want it ringing at an awkward moment. Maybe it was issued for his job and he didn't own it.

The wallet he took because he needed what was in it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What kind of investigation was it?

Sorry, I left out a NOT. He was NOT doing the drug investigation. The office did not even have a detective.

 

[Betty P]

The problem is, RFG was doing the investigation. It was initially prosecuted by MTM as the state AG's Office.

If Ray was doing the investigation, then that made him the target.

Dropping the ball or failing to solve his disappearance wasn’t Ray’s fault. It could be the result of bad luck, a poorly conducted investigation, jurisdictional problems, lack of a task force to coordinate the investigation, sabotage, etc. The FBI was only asked to investigate cell phone and computer records, as well as Rays finances.

Rays friends and family put in a great deal of effort. I hope some day they have some answers.

 

[Betty P]

I think we're all brainstorming. If he walked away, I'm guessing financial information and possibly information about his new life was in that computer. Yes, interesting that he was researching how to destroy a computer hard drive. Interesting too that he left the search findable

Taking the keys is interesting. Perhaps keeping as a memento. More likely, perhaps, he just absent-mindedly stuck them in his pocket.

Left the phone because he no longer needed it and didn't want it ringing at an awkward moment. Maybe it was issued for his job and he didn't own it.

The wallet he took because he needed what was in it.

If he were walking away, why wouldnt he just take the computer with him and keep it?

 

[CuriousCricket]

If he were walking away, why wouldnt he just take the computer with him and keep it?

It was marked property of the county and it wasn't a good idea to take that into his new life. It just wasn't smart.

 

[CuriousCricket]

In the newspaper articles from 2005 that I read, the most controversy seemed to be the mandatory four year sentence for selling drugs. Wonder if that is still the law?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Let's look at this. Let's not.
I had written "let's look at this" then I was able to come up with a scenario. But I've deleted my long brain exercise. While it's a mystery and intriguing brain exercise for me, for her it was a horrible time. She worked hard to help, was judged uninvolved by people there seeing the actual events unfold.

It's too bad that at 18+ years, strangers are dissecting her and that trauma in her life. My apologies to her.

Even if the timing might have been possible, other facts make her involvement impossible.

I have zero problem, initially, looking at PEF. She was, in fact, the first person I looked at.

However, we can to a point where her whereabouts on 4/15 are know. There is a record. It becomes impossible for her, or anyone, to drive two cars to Lewisburg at the same time. It becomes impossible for her to call from a landline in Bellefonte while driving 55 miles away. They do not make 55 mile telephone extension lines.

Once the evidence comes up that disproves the theory, abandon the theory.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Left the phone because he no longer needed it and didn't want it ringing at an awkward moment. Maybe it was issued for his job and he didn't own it.

Snipped for emphasis.

The phone was county owned. Not keeping it, and turning it off, could be a sign that he did not want to be traced. Of course, it could also mean that he didn't want to be disturbed and/or he didn't want the battery to run out.