GUILTY PA - Holly Grim, 41, Wescosville, 22 Nov 2013 #2 *Arrest*

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Imo, searches should never stop (or publicity) based on sightings. They are so, so often wrong. Also people hear the rumors and believe the missing person is okay after all, no need to worry. And in this case, they see (from the area of sightings)oh well, drugs, probably, maybe prostitution.

But all the signs in the world don't sink into most people's brains, Imo. We here have a different kind of brain, maybe, always looking and thinking about missing persons. The average person is not. I do think if a friend says he saw, that has to taken more seriously though. Very hard for family to know what to do. Jmo
 
i agree treelights, it sounds far fetched.

Speculating: Someone came that morning to bring her drugs. She had a bad reaction to it or overdosed, hence the mess in her home. Panicked, that person brought her to a hospital and from there she went to rehab. Le could have checked and found out but if she does not want this information to be released they can't reveal anything. it would be against some law or rule, the name of which i have forgotten.

hipaa
 
I'm from the Allentown area, there is a homeless woman that bears an uncanny resemblance to Holly. Same build, same color hair, wears glasses. She walks all over the place, I've seen her all over town. Since this possible Holly sighting was near the homeless shelter, this may be a case of mistaken identity. :(
 
I would like to rule it out 100% and interview the individual so we can move on to the other scenario.
 
I would like to rule it out 100% and interview the individual so we can move on to the other scenario.

Absolutely. I'm sorry for just piping in like that without an intro. I am from the same town as Holly, and have been following this case from the beginning through the news outlets, Facebook, and here. I have a few mutual friends as Holly, but never met nor knew her personally. I am very familiar with all of the locations regarding this case. Something about this disappearance has unsettled me from the beginning, indeed "I smell a rat".

Regarding the homeless woman, I have been seeing her for probably about 6 years now. She walks all over town but seems mainly focused on the 15th to 17th street area in Allentown. I have also seen her on Lehigh Street, and on Martin Luther King BLVD. She literally walks past the front of my house on a regular basis, often stopping to pick mulberries from the tree across the street. She almost always has the same clothing on: Navy blue pants, a grey T-shirt, a navy or black backpack, and a navy blue knit hat on her head. She wears glasses, has a thin, angular face, and could easily pass for an older "rougher" version of Holly. I know if I'm seeing her so much, others in the area must be too....my hopes is that someone who knows Holly will see this woman as well and rule her out. She is very skittish and there may be some mental issues at play. If you approach her she will run. I frequently would see her at or around the McDonalds at 15th and Tilghman in Allentown, and on one very cold day I saw her as I was pulling into the drive thru with my four year old son in tow (we were not a threatening sight) and rolled down the window and called out to her, asking if I could buy her something warm to eat. She turned and bolted away. I saw her again last year at the Allentown Fair , standing near a food vendor, and again asked her if she would like something, and she froze, did an about-face, and walked away. Approaching her may prove difficult. I am going to try to discreetly photo her if I see her again. I know there's no way she'll let me take her picture, but if she happens to be walking by my house again, I may be able to get a shot of her without her knowing. Perhaps if myself or anyone else that spots her can get a photo, Holly's family can view it and give a yea or nay.

I also had another thought. It was mentioned that Holly may have been spotted at or around the cheesy hotel area of Airport Road, and the again near the homeless shelter. There is another hotel literally right next to the shelter, they used to have a bar and live music on the first floor, and run the upper floors as a boarding house, renting rooms out to drifters, addicts, people living sort of on the fringes. I don't know if it is still in operation (not sure if I can mention the name of the hotel here) but it may be worth looking into. Perhaps Holly rented or was with someone renting a room here. It is just blocks away from one of the most dangerous, poverty stricken, drug and gang infested neighborhoods in the city, and is NOT SAFE for someone to go snooping around alone, especially at night.

The new info releases regarding comments about Holly's boyfriends, and the comment her current boyfriend made about her living with someone else really confuses me. Shouldn't all of this have been told to police from the very beginning??? I just can't see how a single woman, who has a decent steady job and her own home would just up and disappear to "go live with another man". It's not like they were married, they didn't live together, didn't have children together. For heaven's sakes, all she'd have to do is just break up with him and go on with her life. It just isn't making much sense. ;(
 
For those of you following this case, I have been able to do some "Boots on the Ground" work over the weekend.

I took a tour of the areas that Holly was reported being seen by a friend and "others". For those familiar with the area, ground zero appeared to be Hamilton Blvd and 3rd st. In that general area are: A Strip Club, various hotels that cater to the sex trade and a drug treatment clinic for women. This also includes the hotels/motels located near Livingston and Airport road. One of the search teams reported that a hotel clerk identified a picture of Holly as having stayed in the motel. Follow-up by a second team is scheduled and other hotel clerks will be interviewed.

Some interesting tidbits of information over the last few weeks have come to light that I will give initial information on below:

For a three to four week period, a green Toyota was seen between the hours of 2 am and 4 am on Monday mornings. It would park next to Holly's trailer with the lights off for a short period, then leave. At various times, lights have been seen on in the trailer at night. I am unclear why LE response was not immediate to see who was involved as the trailer has been broken into on one occasion.

An ex boyfriends work boots were found in Holly's car, however they were removed by family and contaminated for DNA evidence when one or more family and/or friends of family wore them. I gather that Holly's current boyfriend was not pleased that the boots were in the car.

Holly's current boyfriend has made remarks that she is living with someone else.

One friend has made comments to the effect that Holly had more than one boyfriend at a time on occasion.

One Ex boyfriend was released from jail shortly before Holly went missing. Word is that she had a restraining order against this individual and that he was in debt to Holly for the estimated sum of one thousand dollars.

PSP is not sharing what they have and the PI is pretty much at a standstill, but has been updated by the team. The team continues to share with PSP.

More to follow when I update with the team.
Just want to say thanks for all you do and keeping us posted.


:cheers:
 
I'm from the Allentown area, there is a homeless woman that bears an uncanny resemblance to Holly. Same build, same color hair, wears glasses. She walks all over the place, I've seen her all over town. Since this possible Holly sighting was near the homeless shelter, this may be a case of mistaken identity. :(

Absolutely. I'm sorry for just piping in like that without an intro. I am from the same town as Holly, and have been following this case from the beginning through the news outlets, Facebook, and here. I have a few mutual friends as Holly, but never met nor knew her personally. I am very familiar with all of the locations regarding this case. Something about this disappearance has unsettled me from the beginning, indeed "I smell a rat".

Regarding the homeless woman, I have been seeing her for probably about 6 years now. She walks all over town but seems mainly focused on the 15th to 17th street area in Allentown. I have also seen her on Lehigh Street, and on Martin Luther King BLVD. She literally walks past the front of my house on a regular basis, often stopping to pick mulberries from the tree across the street. She almost always has the same clothing on: Navy blue pants, a grey T-shirt, a navy or black backpack, and a navy blue knit hat on her head. She wears glasses, has a thin, angular face, and could easily pass for an older "rougher" version of Holly. I know if I'm seeing her so much, others in the area must be too....my hopes is that someone who knows Holly will see this woman as well and rule her out. She is very skittish and there may be some mental issues at play. If you approach her she will run. I frequently would see her at or around the McDonalds at 15th and Tilghman in Allentown, and on one very cold day I saw her as I was pulling into the drive thru with my four year old son in tow (we were not a threatening sight) and rolled down the window and called out to her, asking if I could buy her something warm to eat. She turned and bolted away. I saw her again last year at the Allentown Fair , standing near a food vendor, and again asked her if she would like something, and she froze, did an about-face, and walked away. Approaching her may prove difficult. I am going to try to discreetly photo her if I see her again. I know there's no way she'll let me take her picture, but if she happens to be walking by my house again, I may be able to get a shot of her without her knowing. Perhaps if myself or anyone else that spots her can get a photo, Holly's family can view it and give a yea or nay.

I also had another thought. It was mentioned that Holly may have been spotted at or around the cheesy hotel area of Airport Road, and the again near the homeless shelter. There is another hotel literally right next to the shelter, they used to have a bar and live music on the first floor, and run the upper floors as a boarding house, renting rooms out to drifters, addicts, people living sort of on the fringes. I don't know if it is still in operation (not sure if I can mention the name of the hotel here) but it may be worth looking into. Perhaps Holly rented or was with someone renting a room here. It is just blocks away from one of the most dangerous, poverty stricken, drug and gang infested neighborhoods in the city, and is NOT SAFE for someone to go snooping around alone, especially at night.

The new info releases regarding comments about Holly's boyfriends, and the comment her current boyfriend made about her living with someone else really confuses me. Shouldn't all of this have been told to police from the very beginning??? I just can't see how a single woman, who has a decent steady job and her own home would just up and disappear to "go live with another man". It's not like they were married, they didn't live together, didn't have children together. For heaven's sakes, all she'd have to do is just break up with him and go on with her life. It just isn't making much sense. ;(

Welcome to the forum Ghostl8y, and thank you for your valuable posts! I'm sure Trackergd will takes this on board.
 
I can't imagine Holly, or many people for that matter, would have the funds to pay for an extended drug rehab.
 
I don't believe in coincidences. Can't sleuth the ex boyfriend that was coincidently released from jail.
 
Right now the team is running two parallel missions. An urban SAR and continuing to dig on the exbf and what ever else they can get their hands on. A meeting is scheduled with the PI who also seems frustrated with LE. I was out of the area yesterday and am just catching up. Off to Nevada all next week on business.
 
Just thinking out loud here. So no one saw anything that morning. nothing. This has never felt possible. She just vanished. Why did no one see anything!? What if no one saw anything because there was nothing to see? What if she got a threatening phone call? Someone calling saying something to the effect of... I'm watching you, I'm comin' for ya right now. She panics, knocks a few things over, cuts herself running out the door. (Are we even sure that was her blood?) Maybe she hides in a storage shed or towards the tree line. Maybe she's in hiding until whoever was after her subsides. It is also possible she HAS contacted her mother and said I'm ok, hence the scaled back searches, and push from the family. At some point I do remember that LE went from missing person to criminal investigation. I don't think that it was ever clarified what that investigation entail, or who it entailed.
All I know is if I had a family member missing, I would be at LE office door every morning, screaming to anyone who would listen. Why, why, why is LE seem to be working against rather than with the family, PI ???
 
Just thinking out loud here. So no one saw anything that morning. nothing. This has never felt possible. She just vanished. Why did no one see anything!? What if no one saw anything because there was nothing to see? What if she got a threatening phone call? Someone calling saying something to the effect of... I'm watching you, I'm comin' for ya right now. She panics, knocks a few things over, cuts herself running out the door. (Are we even sure that was her blood?) Maybe she hides in a storage shed or towards the tree line. Maybe she's in hiding until whoever was after her subsides. It is also possible she HAS contacted her mother and said I'm ok, hence the scaled back searches, and push from the family. At some point I do remember that LE went from missing person to criminal investigation. I don't think that it was ever clarified what that investigation entail, or who it entailed.
All I know is if I had a family member missing, I would be at LE office door every morning, screaming to anyone who would listen. Why, why, why is LE seem to be working against rather than with the family, PI ???

I have a theory about the seemingly lack of LE cooperation. I may be completely wrong, but I'm just basing it on what I witnessed. I was at Holly's candlelight vigil, and was present when the PSP folks gave their speech. You had to read between the lines a bit, but what was said was that the PSP are investigating every bit of information given to them. They also went on to talk about many false reports being made to them. One example given was the fact that a 14 year old disabled girl started posting on Holly's Facebook page, and was reported to the police as a suspect. She turned out to be just a 14 year old girl with mental disabilities. Another example was the fact that they were openly asking for the public's participation and help, yet when someone shows up and wants to assist, if they ask too many questions or show too much interest, they are reported to police as a possible suspect. I gathered that this has been done quite a few times. The PSP insinuated that this is distracting them from the real case, and also made note that people not related to Holly have been contacting them and making demands for info and answers. I believe they may be keeping details to themselves because of a lot of interference and sidetracking. A case of too many cooks in the kitchen.

Also, this is a weird area. It's a small town, not much excitement, not much to do. A lot of folks thrive on the drama, scandal, gossip and mystery surrounding this case. I sometimes think they thoroughly enjoy it, and when things quiet down, may stir up more drama by suddenly coming up with these new facts about the case. That may seem a bit unfair, but I think this is quite common behavior.

It's also occurred to me that LE may be withholding info because so much is being shared here and on Facebook. I hope that isn't the case. It's highly probable that whoever disappeared Holly is regularly reading, seeing what is known.

During the candlelight vigil, a walk was taken through the trailer park and up to Holly's house. I noticed that the trailer directly across the street was for sale. I also noticed how close the homes were. They are right on top of each other, literally. You walk 8 feet and you're in the neighbor's yard. The trailers are just crammed together in there, I reckon there's no such thing as privacy. I'm wondering if there were frequent comings and goings of various people, noise, bad-neighbor like behavior, etc. to the point where people just become used to it and don't even notice noises or weirdness anymore. I live next door to a noisy, messy, disrruptful neighbor myself and to be honest, we're so used to it that we don't even register it anymore. It's sort of like living by an airport, or next to railroad tracks. You cease to notice the noise after time. I'd like to know if there is a history like this at Holly's residence, and one thing I haven't seen discussed....has she ever disappeared before???? Does she have a history of doing this? Were there frequently various people coming and going? Did she regularly have late night visitors?

Here's a scenario that I've been thinking of, may be completely wrong, but here goes: Holly begins seeing someone else, possibly the exboyfriend. He notices that her current boyfriend has spent the night, becomes upset. He waits until the boyfriend has left for work and the son has gone to school where he can confront Holly alone. Perhaps he approaches her house, she lets him in. A struggle ensues. Perhaps Holly tries to get away by running out the back door, with him in pursuit. What happens beyond that point is anyone's guess, but I think it is of the utmost importance to find out who those boots belonged to, why it wasn't reported to police, and who else she may have been seeing at that time.
 
I've had some thoughts about the possible prostitution/strip club/motel on Airport Road angle as well. (Sorry, I'm just full of thoughts today). There was recently a HUGE prostitution bust at the strip club, something like 11 or 12 prostitutes arrested, a trial, many newspaper articles. Also a few employees of this club have died from drug overdoses, one was found dead at a "client's" home.

The police are currently obsessed with making prostitution busts in this area, and at other hotels in the Lehigh Valley. It's very trendy right now within the police force. Seems they focus more time and energy on these busts currently than on any other crime. They are frequently going undercover and contacting prostitutes placing ads on an adult based website (probably can't say the name here), but it's similar to craigslist and allows people to post ads. They have made several busts in the hotel area on Airport Road. I think when a friend of Holly's reported seeing her on an adult website, it may have been this very site, and the police may have been worried people looking for Holly may start posting on this site and hinder any investigations they may have going on. I also wonder if this current obsession of theirs has made them imply a connection between the strip club and hotels, and Holly, where none exists. This strip club is pretty darn lucky that it's even able to remain open at this point, I think if Holly had an association with it, they'd be forthcoming. If not, they must have the dumbest business managers in the universe.

The local paper is called The Morning Call if anyone would like to search for news articles about the prostitution stings.
 
For those of you following this case, I have been able to do some "Boots on the Ground" work over the weekend.

I took a tour of the areas that Holly was reported being seen by a friend and "others". For those familiar with the area, ground zero appeared to be Hamilton Blvd and 3rd st. In that general area are: A Strip Club, various hotels that cater to the sex trade and a drug treatment clinic for women. This also includes the hotels/motels located near Livingston and Airport road. One of the search teams reported that a hotel clerk identified a picture of Holly as having stayed in the motel. Follow-up by a second team is scheduled and other hotel clerks will be interviewed.

Some interesting tidbits of information over the last few weeks have come to light that I will give initial information on below:

For a three to four week period, a green Toyota was seen between the hours of 2 am and 4 am on Monday mornings. It would park next to Holly's trailer with the lights off for a short period, then leave. At various times, lights have been seen on in the trailer at night. I am unclear why LE response was not immediate to see who was involved as the trailer has been broken into on one occasion.

An ex boyfriends work boots were found in Holly's car, however they were removed by family and contaminated for DNA evidence when one or more family and/or friends of family wore them. I gather that Holly's current boyfriend was not pleased that the boots were in the car.

Holly's current boyfriend has made remarks that she is living with someone else.

One friend has made comments to the effect that Holly had more than one boyfriend at a time on occasion.

One Ex boyfriend was released from jail shortly before Holly went missing. Word is that she had a restraining order against this individual and that he was in debt to Holly for the estimated sum of one thousand dollars.

PSP is not sharing what they have and the PI is pretty much at a standstill, but has been updated by the team. The team continues to share with PSP.

More to follow when I update with the team.


Thank you for the update and your continued work to help find the missing.

The boots in Holly's car found and then being worn by family and/or friend is just too .... Whisky Tango Foxtrot. The women is missing and they didn't think that this may be something important to give to LE right away?

The current boyfriend commenting on "she is living with someone else". Why wasn't this mentioned before and more importantly why now?

A green Toyota, seen parked at Holly's trailer, only on Monday mornings between 2am and 4am and sometimes lights on inside the trailer itself. The information is that exacting as to time, frequency and make and color of car, but no plate number, no year or model of car and no number of occupants or description of anyone coming or going into or out of the trailer. Again WTF. In my opinion something is wrong with this information.

As far as the ex with a supposed PFA against him; that is a court document and LE should have known that right out of the starting gate .... if they did a records search in Lehigh County in her name. Actually they should have looked at least the surrounding counties and anywhere else that Holly had a history of frequenting for anything that had her name in it. They also would know that he had recently been released and what he was incarcerated for and should have been able to get a bead on where he was and what he has been up to fairly easily via his Probation Officer.

This whole thing is strange right down to her going missing in such a narrow window of time and no one noticing anything. Sightings that have not been confirmed ... still. Something is amiss.

Trackergd you are right; too many pegs on the shelf to know which one is the best choice to hang your hat on.
 
I'm from the Allentown area, there is a homeless woman that bears an uncanny resemblance to Holly. Same build, same color hair, wears glasses. She walks all over the place, I've seen her all over town. Since this possible Holly sighting was near the homeless shelter, this may be a case of mistaken identity. :(

According to the outreach services (private and State) we have shown her picture to, they are not aware of anyone on the streets that looks like Holly.

Just curious, are you in Wescosville or Allentown?
 
I am not aware of too much being shared on FB. There is a prayer page, a search team page and a closed page. I am not aware of the open pages oversharing.
 
:wagon: Ghostl8y!

Your posts are so insightful...

And I so appreciate all your "local" information...

My mind is now whirling (again :giggle:) from these theories and information!

:seeya:
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
122
Guests online
1,844
Total visitors
1,966

Forum statistics

Threads
605,366
Messages
18,186,243
Members
233,338
Latest member
adr5879
Back
Top