Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[Friday Fan]

Thank you for posting this. I'm not on Websleuths often; what brought me here this time around was this specific case and its use of DNA to discover Joseph's identity. My daughter is a Philadelphia-area prosecutor (no longer with the Philly DA's office, not involved with this case) who texted me while the press conference was ongoing because of my avid interest in genetic genealogy.

As a researcher, I'm finding the amount of "I saw it on the Internet, so it must be true" on here disheartening. Personally I go for as much redundancy as possible when I'm out to prove a familial connection, and I view ALL family trees on Ancestry with a healthy dose of skepticism. Ditto with FindAGrave and any other user-submitted resources.

I'd take what you said further: "...that isn't proof unless there are historical public records _AND_ DNA matches to verify those relationships." That's how I prefer it ;-)

In my family tree, I consider it a match when I see records with matching names, birth and death dates. I don't have DNA on my parents or grandparents. Although I have my own and got a springboard from ftDNA and Ancestry on one side of the family, I hunt down find matching names, birth and death dates. Death dates tend to be the "gold standard" for those who were born before 1900. Names are frequently misspelled and birthdates often weren't accurately recorded before 1900 in the US.

 

[amybman1]

Summing it up after that news article with JT. JT either tested on FTDNA or uploaded onto ged match. Researchers cannot use ancestry dna as it is against their TOS. Researchers had some potential fathers in mind ( brothers) and after seeing the BC and further testing they figured out which one. Mother is definitely not the zarelli. There wouldn’t be a father on the BC and Joseph carrying his mother’s maiden. Not happening especially back then. Mother and father were probably briefly married or at least had a longer term relationship before his 1959 marriage. I also don’t think he was adopted.

It would definitely make sense that Zarelli was not the mother as your are saying since they clearly stated that it was the paternal side they researched back to Italy/Italian roots. (Not that the mother couldn't have had an Italian last name such as Z, but with JAZ's coloring and knowing dad was Italian it seems unlikely.)

 

[citizen_sleuth]

Do you have a theory how a child would be adopted out to a family member without the mother knowing WHO has her child? Would the adoptive family just be a bit more distant relatives/pretend the child was theirs?

Back then, the mother had no right to know who her child was placed with. And since third parties could adopt out a child, it’s possible Joseph’s grandmother arranged for the child to go to a relative (like a second cousin, or an aunt’s niece) without the mother’s consent or knowledge. It’s also possible that Joseph was in an institution in the Philadelphia area because he was deemed “unfit” to be adopted out.

 

[loveplace]

In my family tree, I consider it a match when I see records with matching names, birth and death dates. I don't have DNA on my parents or grandparents. Although I have my own and got a springboard from ftDNA and Ancestry on one side of the family, I hunt down find matching names, birth and death dates. Death dates tend to be the "gold standard" for those who were born before 1900. Names are frequently misspelled and birthdates often weren't accurately recorded before 1900 in the US.

What you consider a match in your personal research falls far below the actual professional standard for geneagical proof unfortunately and that's why so much false info is being put out right now.

Death information can be equally inaccurate because it is only a reliabe as the person reporting the death. That's why multiple sources are required to confirm information.

 

[iamshadow21]

It would definitely make sense that Zarelli was not the mother as your are saying since they clearly stated that it was the paternal side they researched back to Italy/Italian roots. (Not that the mother couldn't have had an Italian last name such as Z, but with JAZ's coloring and knowing dad was Italian it seems unlikely.)

I had a good friend when I was younger who was of Italian heritage. She had light brown hair, almost blonde, yellow eyes (yes, really) and relatively fair skin. Her family was from the north of Italy, close to Switzerland.

Tl;dr, Italian people can have a broad spectrum of colouring depending on where they're from and the genetics of their families.

MOO

 

[Friday Fan]

DBM Duplicate

 

[Friday Fan]

What you consider a match in your personal research falls far below the actual professional standard for geneagical proof unfortunately and that's why so much false info is being put out right now.

Death information can be equally inaccurate because it is only a reliabe as the person reporting the death. That's why multiple sources are required to confirm information.

They're just old, long dead relatives. Their death is often the only date that is consistent. I had relative come from Scotland in 1718 or so. Birth certificates were not required until the early 1900's, so there is no consistent birthdate. They didn't baptize, so death and public records, such as census is also that exists. (Heck the census wasn't decent until 1850)

I'm skeptical of any birthdate though, because I had an amazing number of relatives who lived to be 100...LOL

 

[amybman1]

Thank you.
I'll admit, I was slightly thrown by the Italian connection, I always thought Joseph looked of Slavic heritage (goes to show how good I am at reading faces)

I think there were a lot of factors making it difficult -- the malnourishment/poor treatment, the artificially colored photographs etc. And as strong as dark hair/eye genes tend to be, sometimes the fair genes are really strong as well. My dad's dad is full Italian, his mom is Welsh/German and every one of their kids got my grandma's bright blue eyes except my dad.I look straight up Italian, and have a bunch of blonde haired blue eyed cousins.

 

[amybman1]

Back then, the mother had no right to know who her child was placed with. And since third parties could adopt out a child, it’s possible Joseph’s grandmother arranged for the child to go to a relative (like a second cousin, or an aunt’s niece) without the mother’s consent or knowledge. It’s also possible that Joseph was in an institution in the Philadelphia area because he was deemed “unfit” to be adopted out.

I never thought about the possibility of him being put in an institution.

 

[loveplace]

They're just old, long dead relatives. Their death is often the only date that is consistent. I had relative come from Scotland in 1718 or so. Birth certificates were not required until the early 1900's, so there is no consistent birthdate. They didn't baptize, so death and public records, such as census is also that exists. (Heck the census wasn't decent until 1850)

I'm skeptical of any birthdate though, because I had an amazing number of relatives who lived to be 100...LOL

In personal research they may be just "old, long dead relatives" but getting the info wrong and not meeting the professional standards for proof is not at all quality technique for identifying family in a murder case. In this case a professional and rigorous standard of proof is essential to justice and avoiding harassment of the innocent. Ancestry has deeply watered down the quality of research being done even as it improves access to records and profession accuracy by making out available to more people.

 

[Friday Fan]

It would definitely make sense that Zarelli was not the mother as your are saying since they clearly stated that it was the paternal side they researched back to Italy/Italian roots. (Not that the mother couldn't have had an Italian last name such as Z, but with JAZ's coloring and knowing dad was Italian it seems unlikely.)

JAZ was on the younger side and many ethnic traits don't show up at that age.
Heck there is a Bollywood actress whose son looked European for the first few years of his life.
Additionally, not all Italians are dark.

It's entirely possible that JAZ was Italian on both sides.

 

[loveplace]

JAZ was on the younger side and many ethnic traits don't show up at that age.
Heck there is a Bollywood actress whose son looked European for the first few years of his life.
Additionally, not all Italians are dark.

It's entirely possible that JAZ was Italian on both sides.

I agree. That might even be likely just based on social norms at that time.

 

[RaspberryMama]

Just some mainstream genealogy research info that may not be obvious to people who don't "do" genealogy.... family trees on ancestry and family search can day anything at all the owner wants them to say. All actual and valid research they needs to be backed up by documents from public records that verify the people listed in the tree and their relationships. So if ancestry.com has an individual tree listing Joseph's parents, and I'm sure there are more than one now that the case has broken, that isn't proof unless there are historical public records OR DNA matches to verify those relationships. I hope that helps.

Thank you for posting this. I'm not on Websleuths often; what brought me here this time around was this specific case and its use of DNA to discover Joseph's identity. My daughter is a Philadelphia-area prosecutor (no longer with the Philly DA's office, not involved with this case) who texted me while the press conference was ongoing because of my avid interest in genetic genealogy.

As a researcher, I'm finding the amount of "I saw it on the Internet, so it must be true" on here disheartening. Personally I go for as much redundancy as possible when I'm out to prove a familial connection, and I view ALL family trees on Ancestry with a healthy dose of skepticism. Ditto with FindAGrave and any other user-submitted resources.

I'd take what you said further: "...that isn't proof unless there are historical public records _AND_ DNA matches to verify those relationships." That's how I prefer it ;-)

Thank you both for these posts! I've been trying to make this point and my frustration level with speculation being stated as fact has surely affected my blood pressure, lol. You both stated it perfectly!

In my family tree, I consider it a match when I see records with matching names, birth and death dates. I don't have DNA on my parents or grandparents. Although I have my own and got a springboard from ftDNA and Ancestry on one side of the family, I hunt down find matching names, birth and death dates. Death dates tend to be the "gold standard" for those who were born before 1900. Names are frequently misspelled and birthdates often weren't accurately recorded before 1900 in the US.

Friday, I understand what you are saying... In personal research one has to start somewhere. So we use the records we can find and match up the info we can find in order to come up with possible missing pieces. And you (or I) can be 110% positive about something in our minds based on this sort of search. But it holds no water officially until documents (or dna) are obtained to confirm the theory. In a public case like this, that confirmation is truly important. Without it, it's speculation only. Unfortunately that distinction gets lost in the excitement of "finding something."

P.S. I have a feeling you already know all of this.

 

[txsleuth70]

I was able to locate my MIL's unknown birth father from my husband's 3rd cousin match on Ancestry at 933 cMs. It look about 3 months to build out the trees because most of the GPs and GGPs involved had 11-13 children each!

 

[txsleuth70]

I was able to locate my MIL's unknown birth father from my husband's 3rd cousin match on Ancestry at 933 cMs. It look about 3 months to build out the trees because most of the GPs and GGPs involved had 11-13 children each!

^^This comment was supposed to piggy back off of the discussion of the video interview.

 

[amybman1]

I had a good friend when I was younger who was of Italian heritage. She had light brown hair, almost blonde, yellow eyes (yes, really) and relatively fair skin. Her family was from the north of Italy, close to Switzerland.

Tl;dr, Italian people can have a broad spectrum of colouring depending on where they're from and the genetics of their families.

MOO

Yes, I should have clarified-- I put it on another post-- similar thing in our family: My dad's dad is full Italian, my dad's mom is Welsh/German and every one of their kids got my grandma's bright blue eyes except my dad so sometimes some strong fairer genes can really overpower typically-dominant dark genes -- my siblings and I look straight up Italian, and have a bunch of blonde haired blue eyed cousins. My brother also has those yellowish/honey colored eyes actually. Being Italian, especially depending what region you are from, can throw all sorts of coloring into the mix-- browns being pretty prevalent in a lot of Italy.

 

[LeBlack]

RSBM

It makes you wonder if the missing 12th bassinet was photographed and sitting in someone's family album. It's a little strange that the other 11 were found. I'll have to read through that website more, but maybe the other 11 owners came forward. If this was bought 3 months before the boy was found, there might have been a baby recently born that lived in the same house he was living.

Evidence

MOO, makes me wonder - was the new baby colicky, miscarried, stillborn, sickly - maybe more than a new family could handle with a (barely) 4 year old.

I also wonder how common handmedowns would have been to the area. (Cousins, siblings, aunts, etc would all end up using the same handed around crib) I guess it could go either way - no family to pass around furniture to or many children being born in a short time leaves some buying new furniture.

I also wonder if they ended up getting rid of the bassinet once people were on the lookout for it.

IMO

 

[loveplace]

Here is some good foundation reading if anyone wants to know more about how to develop personal genealogical research to a level of "Proof."

The Genealogical Proof Standard

NGS offers an overview of the Genealogical Proof Standard (GPS) that was developed by the Board for Certification of Genealogists. In addition, NGS provides a link to an excellent lecture, entitled The Genealogical Proof Standard (GPS) is Your Friend, not Your Enemy, by genealogy scholar David...

www.ngsgenealogy.org

and a piece that includes some extra info about ethics and genealogical proof.

Ethics and Standards

Both professional genealogists and casual family researchers need genealogy standards in order to get their genealogy right. Without standards, inaccuracies and myths can be created and perpetuated. Many of these errors can be avoided by working to genealogy standards. Genealogy standards have...

bcgcertification.org

 

[amybman1]

What you consider a match in your personal research falls far below the actual professional standard for geneagical proof unfortunately and that's why so much false info is being put out right now.

Death information can be equally inaccurate because it is only a reliabe as the person reporting the death. That's why multiple sources are required to confirm information.

While below the professional standard, death certificates are a goldmine. It would be very common for their grown offspring to be the reporter on the certificate, which confirms a piece of familial data; they list spouse, which confirms another piece of familial data; they list place of birth, confirming a 3rd piece of data etc. Plus all the other goodies like date of birth, attending physician etc that can lead to more clues. One of my most valuable resources in my own genealogical project has been death certificate information.

 

[RaspberryMama]

Just a PSA here: Each post on a thread has a bookmark feature. It's in the upper right corner, to the left of the post number. You access your bookmarks by tapping on your profile pic and choosing the "bookmark" tab.

These are instructions for mobile devices; laptops and desktops might be different.

Here's the link for the post with the PC transcript if anyone wants to go bookmark it:

Identified! - PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

5. - though she identified Joseph as "Jonathan”. RBSBM: Huge clue, in my book.

www.websleuths.com