Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[Jmoose]

I would assume they believe Joseph is from that location because his birth family is from there. That doesn't necessarily account for anything that happened after birth.

Wasn’t his body found near enough to where his birth family is from, to say that that is where Joseph is from? It is unlikely that he was from anyplace else.

 

[Sikkim]

The reason was that they dismissed her claims because she was "mentally ill". Which IMO is a pretty weak reason to dismiss what seemed to be a very plausible lead.

No, they didn't dismiss her just because she was "mentally ill"

If there was actual evidence to corroborate her claims, it wouldn't matter if she was mentally ill or not


She changed her story and made up details that didn't match

<modsnip>

 

[breachtones]

Wasn’t his body found near enough to where his birth family is from, to say that that is where Joseph is from? It is unlikely that he was from anyplace else.

The location of his body is a good 15 miles northeast of 61st & Market. They're pretty much on opposite sides of the city, it's an hours drive away.

 

[Jmoose]

Say his name: Joseph Augustus Zarelli.

As for him not having a Social Security number, until they were required to file tax returns, many people did not get them until they got their first job. I got mine in 1978, when I was 14 years old.

Exactly right. I was born in 1958, and didn’t need one until I was a teenager. One of the reasons that babies had to get SS numbers, is because people were filing tax returns with many more “dependents” than they actually had. I’m not saying it’s true that somebody was caught listing their racehorse on their tax return, but what really would have stopped them, unless it had to get a SS number…

 

[kado709]

Let me start by saying that I am overjoyed that his sweet baby finally has his name back. He is loved by so many people who never knew him in life.

Having said that, I really wish they would stop saying "West Philadelphia" because now the theme song to "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" has been stuck in my head all day.

@justbeachy love your profile pic <3<3

 

[LolliDrama]

SO.... Do you guys know about this neighborhood/area and these people bc...
I'm them. Like I'm italian american and my whole family for three generations comes from this area... actually about ten minutes from "61st and Market"... But Overbrook basically.
In the early 50s if there was a baby born outside of a marriage any number of things could have occurred...
if the family's daughter was the mother then the grandparents would pretend to be the parents OR they would give it to a married family member to pretend like it was theirs.If the son was the father, there was no DNA tests... they'd just deny it if they wanted to... or he might not even ever know bc the girl's family would keep it secret.

 

[breachtones]

No, they didn't dismiss her just because she was "mentally ill"

If there was actual evidence to corroborate her claims, it wouldn't matter if she was mentally ill or not


She changed her story and made up details that didn't match

Weird that people are hesitant to accuse the Zarelli family but have no problem accusing this woman's parents of kidnapping and abusing a kid

What about the water-wrinkled fingers and toes? The baked beans detail? The good samaritan who very nearly caught M and her mother in the act of dumping the boy's body? Those were all details not known to the public. It sounds too plausible and has too many specific and confidential details for me to just dismiss it. Plus, I've never heard of her changing her story.

 

[LolliDrama]

Wasn’t his body found near enough to where his birth family is from, to say that that is where Joseph is from? It is unlikely that he was from anyplace else.

No they took his body up to Northeast Philly which is a good thirty to forty minutes away from Overbrook.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Based on what LE said about sibling on both parents sides, I would suspect that Joseph was fostered or adopted and that his parents were not married.

 

[Buzzaround]

SO.... Do you guys know about this neighborhood/area and these people bc...
I'm them. Like I'm italian american and my whole family for three generations comes from this area... actually about ten minutes from "61st and Market"... But Overbrook basically.
In the early 50s if there was a baby born outside of a marriage any number of things could have occurred...
if the family's daughter was the mother then the grandparents would pretend to be the parents OR they would give it to a married family member to pretend like it was theirs.If the son was the father, there was no DNA tests... they'd just deny it if they wanted to... or he might not even ever know bc the girl's family would keep it secret.

Given that we're likely talking about a Roman Catholic family in the 1950s, yeah - all of this is entirely possible.

Law enforcement's usage of the phrase "siblings from parents on both sides" appears to back up the idea that Joseph was born out of wedlock. What happened to him afterward is anyone's guess.

My gut tells me he was put up for adoption. Again, obligatory MOO.

 

[fridaybaker]

Late to the game here, so please excuse me if this has already been brought up. I haven’t been able to keep up with this very fast moving thread. I’m thinking along the lines of “M” being correct, given the name that she gave of the boy. Any thoughts?

 

[AgnesTurnip]

Okay, I just registered because of a few things. Philly area native here and just wanted to drop a few cultural reminders and tidbits on the line to maybe help out?

1) West Philly was a predominately Italian working-class neighborhood back in that day that Joseph would have been born. I know from friend's whose families have been in the area for years as well as those who have just moved here that when groups of people immigrate, there can often be clumps of people from the same areas coming to the same place because they have reported doing well from the US. That means that not only is there a tendency for Roman-catholic Italian families to have a lot of children (I am stereotyping forgive me) but they could also have cousins come which make an even wider net.

TL;DR - Like many others have said Zarelli isn't as uncommon as you think.

2) I worked in for a brief period as an assistant for a property management firm around my area and heard talk about was a property company/ construction company owned by a family named Zarelli doing work in DELCO. They were big property owners. BUT, it should also be said a lot of prominent families in the Philly area Italian because of the reason I listed above and how migration operates.

3) I also worked in record management for a while (dealing with East Coast records) and let me tell you: THEY ARE A MESS. Not only because they were largely neglected for the most part, but also because of the amount anti-immigrant sentiments that occurred and lack of care. "You said your last name was Zarelli?" "Si, Cierelli." "Great. Joseph Zarelli." A potentially poorly educated population and or careless note taker and BAM.

I hope some of this insight helped. (And that I didn't break any rules. :$)

Edit: Also, would it help to drop a transcript of the press conference somewhere?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks, I was wondering about that area, back in the 50ss.

Was it a good neighborhood?
Or was there a lot of poverty?
Would love to see some pictures & read some stories how it was back then..

"Working class Italian" according to a friend who grew up here at about the the same time. The longest business in the immediate area opened up c. 1980. There was a lawnmower repair place, a bank, and an Italian bakery that are all gone.

 

[bears10]

That he was adopted or unofficially fostered is my tentative theory, but I’ll be quick to admit that there’s no real evidence of it, at all.

Gotcha. Imo it's also a possibility that the mom was the last one to see him iykwim. I don't necessarily take that lady Martha's story as gospel, which I think may be the difference in my thinking.

<modsnip> My mom was in her 30s when she had me in 1986, and she was basically considered a dinosaur. She had my oldest brother when she was 20, which seems way more in alignment with society in those days.

I don't really have a point with this post lol. I'm just putting my thoughts down onto "paper".

 

[Jmoose]

I have a feeling that if we wait a few days, members of Joseph's family might reach out to the news media. A reporter mentioned during the press conference that members of the father's family were disputing the evidence, meaning they have given some kind of statement to at least one member of the press, even if it was off the record.

This is what I believe, too

 

[LolliDrama]

Given that we're likely talking about a Roman Catholic family in the 1950s, yeah - all of this is entirely possible.

Law enforcement's usage of the phrase "siblings from parents on both sides" appears to back up the idea that Joseph was born out of wedlock. What happened to him afterward is anyone's guess.

My gut tells me he was put up for adoption. Again, obligatory MOO.

I agree with you regarding the phrasing the police used. That is what I think, too. I would also assume the surname is the bio mother's based on this information and the traditions of the time BUT maybe not. I can't be sure.

 

[Skigirl]

Okay, I just registered because of a few things. Philly area native here and just wanted to drop a few cultural reminders and tidbits on the line to maybe help out?

1) West Philly was a predominately Italian working-class neighborhood back in that day that Joseph would have been born. I know from friend's whose families have been in the area for years as well as those who have just moved here that when groups of people immigrate, there can often be clumps of people from the same areas coming to the same place because they have reported doing well from the US. That means that not only is there a tendency for Roman-catholic Italian families to have a lot of children (I am stereotyping forgive me) but they could also have cousins come which make an even wider net.

TL;DR - Like many others have said Zarelli isn't as uncommon as you think.

2) I worked in for a brief period as an assistant for a property management firm around my area and heard talk about was a property company/ construction company owned by a family named Zarelli doing work in DELCO. They were big property owners. BUT, it should also be said a lot of prominent families in the Philly area Italian because of the reason I listed above and how migration operates.

3) I also worked in record management for a while (dealing with East Coast records) and let me tell you: THEY ARE A MESS. Not only because they were largely neglected for the most part, but also because of the amount anti-immigrant sentiments that occurred and lack of care. "You said your last name was Zarelli?" "Si, Cierelli." "Great. Joseph Zarelli." A potentially poorly educated population and or careless note taker and BAM.

I hope some of this insight helped. (And that I didn't break any rules. :$)

Edit: Also, would it help to drop a transcript of the press conference somewhere?

Welcome to Websleuths, Agnes! You are a huge asset to this discussion and these are great pieces of context. Welcome! It would help a great deal to have a transcript of the press conference... I'm not sure whether you are offering, or looking for one.

 

[VanGogh82]

Very reasonable and plausible.

 

[AgnesTurnip]

SO.... Do you guys know about this neighborhood/area and these people bc...
I'm them. Like I'm italian american and my whole family for three generations comes from this area... actually about ten minutes from "61st and Market"... But Overbrook basically.
In the early 50s if there was a baby born outside of a marriage any number of things could have occurred...
if the family's daughter was the mother then the grandparents would pretend to be the parents OR they would give it to a married family member to pretend like it was theirs.If the son was the father, there was no DNA tests... they'd just deny it if they wanted to... or he might not even ever know bc the girl's family would keep it secret.

Yeah, I know some other people from the area who told us about their Nonna's doing this

 

[AgnesTurnip]

Welcome to Websleuths, Agnes! You are a huge asset to this discussion and these are great pieces of context. Welcome! It would help a great deal to have a transcript of the press conference... I'm not sure whether you are offering, or looking for one.

Oh, I'm offering. I read through the other thread and I figure it might be helpful to have a transcript for those that might not have been able to listen or can't remember what was said. I'll get to it now.