PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped:

Was this the meeting where he was asked to be present or to otherwise participate in a judicial activity in Oct. 2005, and he stated that he would not be around for it? ( Obviously I am paraphrasing).

The meeting with then President Judge Brown and Court Administrator Spotts was on 3/9/05. http://www.centredaily.com/2006/05/13/3802/missed-leads.html That is where the "I won't be here" comment about a trial in October.

This was the prison board meeting on the morning of 4/14/05. I have a transcript of the minutes; it was a public meeting.

It was also a quite routine meeting. It started at 8:05 and ended at 8:45, with a discussion afteraward of disposal of an employment grievance; the prison is unionized. I'll be happy to e-mail or even post a copy, but there is nothing there.

 

[BigCat]

During the second week of October 1998 a meeting was held with RFG and others at a PSU football facility. Also, during the second week of October 1998 - meetings were being planned, how a situation would be handled, as a student had inadvertently taken photos of Jerry Sandusky, and witnessed him picking up a child from his home while Head Start was working with him that day, on June 3 1998.

While I certainly believe the October 98 meeting was about Sandusky (does the DA travel to the football building to discuss underage drinking? I wouldn't think so), I don't see why they would be discussing photos of JS picking up a child. He was clearly still involved with children through the Second Mile after the 98 investigation. He even took one victim with him to the Alamo Bowl in December of 98. The only warning he received was to cease showering with boys, and that warning may have been limited to the Lasch Builidng.

 

[tarabull]

Ok...so was just reading up on the history of Lewisburg on Wikipedia...it states that the founder, Ludwig Derr disappeared without a trace. Does anyone know if that's true? Because that is a FREAKY coincidence (or not).
Apologies if it's been discussed already.

Interesting PG! This snippet claims Derr set off to sell lots in PA and never returned.....strange indeed.

Another mystery surrounding Lewisburg, is the disappearance of its founder Ludwig Derr. After selling many lots of land, Derr set off for Philadelphia to sell additional lots. Shortly after arriving, records indicate some of his lots had sold. However, Ludwig Derr simply disappears from history in that city. Derr’s son George went to Philadelphia to search for his father, but returned a short time later unsuccessful.

http://walkthetown.com/page27/page77/page77.html

FWIW, they mention Derr's death...I wonder when and how he has found?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Derr disappeared in Philadelphia, however.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A brief story from the local ABC affiliate: http://www.abc23.com/News/NewsDetails.asp?NewsID=13988

 

[Trackergd]

Derr disappeared in Philadelphia, however.

You have no idea how unsettling that is to me.

 

[poppygirl]

You have no idea how unsettling that is to me.

It truly is! When I read about Derr, I got chills. I try not to read into what is likely a crazy coincidence...but if Ray was planning to disappear - well why not pick a quaint small town whose founder also disappeared?

 

[poppygirl]

Not trusting wikipedia completely, I did search and find other references to Derr's disappearance...here is one from an old history on google books...

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wa...iewport&dq=ludwig+derr&output=html_text#c_top

Eta: Derr's history starts with 3rd paragraph

 

[NoWannaB@Lackawanna]

Wendell Courtney warned the agencies of liability concerns in June 98, per Schultz GJ testimony he (Courtney) "gave them his blessings". By mid October 1998, this was already full blown damage control.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It truly is! When I read about Derr, I got chills. I try not to read into what is likely a crazy coincidence...but if Ray was planning to disappear - well why not pick a quaint small town whose founder also disappeared?

I suspect that, if this was a voluntary departure, there were other reasons for choosing Lewisburg, i.e. it was out of Johnstown-Altoona-State College (JASC) media market.

When his disappearance was first reported, it was seen on television and heard on radio on stations that covered everything from Centre County west to Jefferson County, which the ends of the JASC media market. JASC did not cover Union County, where Lewisburg is located.

A map is here: http://www.politicspa.com/breaking-...icture-by-tv-market/43926/pa-media-markets-2/

RFG had been an elected official for 20 years in the JASC media and, while not a major TV presence, would be on for stories about crime in Centre County. He was very recognizable. He was not recognizable in Lewisburg, because their local stations generally didn't cover local stories in other media markets. Very few people would say, **I saw you on TV,** or **I saw you picture in the paper.**

The story was possibly covered on the local news at 6:00 PM on 4/16. The earliest reference to the story being broadcast in Lewisburg was 4/17, though I think it was on cable at that point.

 

[poppygirl]

Maybe I read too much fiction...but sometimes real life is stranger than fiction

The Derr story really freaked me out...both men leave on a mission...both men arrive at their destination...both men's children go looking for them...both men are never heard from again...

Crazy talk I know!

 

[NoWannaB@Lackawanna]

I believe the investigation surrounding Ray Gricar's disappearance on April 15, 2005 and immediate investigation within the first 48 hours centered in downtown Williamsport, by the river, and not Lewisburg. I am not familiar with either Williamsport, or Lewisburg. Prove it to me that I'm wrong.

 

[nittanylioness234]

Some of it is that I don't have access to records. If I could look at vehicle registration records generally and car rental records of about 24 people, I could tell you if this was a voluntary departure or not, with a reasonable degree of certainty.

With cell records and whereabouts of the same 24 or so people on 4/15-4/16, I could probably prove or disprove walkaway.

Who are the 24, ranked in order from most suspicious to least?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I believe the investigation surrounding Ray Gricar's disappearance on April 15, 2005 and immediate investigation within the first 48 hours centered in downtown Williamsport, by the river, and not Lewisburg. I am not familiar with either Williamsport, or Lewisburg. Prove it to me that I'm wrong.

Sure.

Here is an account of the investigation: http://www.centredaily.com/2011/02/23/2539033/index-of-the-investigation.html

It was Lewisburg,

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Who are the 24, ranked in order from most suspicious to least?

"The Inner Circle."

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/07/16/2396992/the-inner-circle.html

I have given this some thought. :floorlaugh:

BTW: The name I didn't want mentioned was Petito, who was publicly, and consensually, disclosed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Wendell Courtney warned the agencies of liability concerns in June 98, per Schultz GJ testimony he (Courtney) "gave them his blessings". By mid October 1998, this was already full blown damage control.

It is possible, but I'd need evidence.

 

[NoWannaB@Lackawanna]

Child protective agencies, not knowing what could be before them, did not want to be associated w Sandusky in same time frame proximity in May 98, when he was first cleared of the charges. This is the reason why recent photos of Sandusky with kids - were seen as toxic. Damage control for what COULD be coming. JJ, you need evidence, you need to go offline, send email address in PM.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Maybe I read too much fiction...but sometimes real life is stranger than fiction

The Derr story really freaked me out...both men leave on a mission...both men arrive at their destination...both men's children go looking for them...both men are never heard from again...

Crazy talk I know!

RFG was not known to be on any kind of a mission.

 

[NoWannaB@Lackawanna]

I will be making a trip out that way, but until I do have the opportunity to revisit and have a look around at certain landmarks I remember seeing, I am staying with a possible contradiction of the facts in that this was WILLIAMSPORT. I had no reason to stop in Lewisburg and would not have been there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I will be making a trip out that way, but until I do have the opportunity to revisit and have a look around at certain landmarks I remember seeing, I am staying with a possible contradiction of the facts in that this was WILLIAMSPORT. I had no reason to stop in Lewisburg and would not have been there.

The Mini was found in Lewisburg at about 6:30 PM. It was still daylight. It could another (solved) missing person case.