PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[Trackergd]

In this scenario, RFG was planning to meet someone in Lewisburg about mid afternoon. He has wanted to make sure that the data on the laptop never sees the light of day, to the point asking a defense attorney about how to get rid of it. He decides that he'll get down there around lunchtime and tosses the drive, probably around 1:00-1:30 PM. He may get rid of his laptop at the same time or later.

In any event, he meets the person around 2-3 PM.

Not the most likely possibility, but far from impossible.




Possibly he wanted to destroy his laptop before walking away or committing suicide, but it might have been coincidental. I would not rule out coincidence, especially since he wanted to get rid of the data for a long time.

RBBM

This has been bugging me for quite a while. If the information on the drive was not related to Sandusky, what could have been so damning on that hard drive that he went to so much trouble to ask a defense attorney, meet someone in a somewhat clandestine setting and then go to so much effort to destroy both the computer and hard drive.

My mind keeps coming back to it being something that would have either ruined what time was left of his career, caused him to lose his pension or sully his legacy and honor of his family.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

RBBM

This has been bugging me for quite a while. If the information on the drive was not related to Sandusky, what could have been so damning on that hard drive that he went to so much trouble to ask a defense attorney, meet someone in a somewhat clandestine setting and then go to so much effort to destroy both the computer and hard drive.

My mind keeps coming back to it being something that would have either ruined what time was left of his career, caused him to lose his pension or sully his legacy and honor of his family.

Possibly nothing damning, but something private. Financial data, personnel reports, heart to heart e-mails with his daughter would be in that category.

Maybe he visited risque websites and really didn't want that known; that is not quite so nice. It would be embarrassing, but not illegal. Perhaps he exchanged suggestive e-mails with PEF while he was at a conference. I would not call that something too bad, but it might not have been something he wanted to spread around. Seriously, how many of us would want all the intimate details of relationship, even with our S.O., to be known by someone outside of that relationship?

Maybe he was searching something about depression or suicide and was embarrassed about it.

The meeting, if there was one, may not be related to the laptop's destruction. They might be unrelated events, except that RFG was planning to be in Lewisburg.

 

[TechWriter797]

Perhaps Ray removed the hard drive and tossed it in the river. Maybe later, someone else (not knowing the hard drive was missing) tossed the laptop in the river? This person could be someone Ray was planning to meet that day.

 

[Trackergd]

Possibly nothing damning, but something private. Financial data, personnel reports, heart to heart e-mails with his daughter would be in that category.

Maybe he visited risque websites and really didn't want that known; that is not quite so nice. It would be embarrassing, but not illegal. Perhaps he exchanged suggestive e-mails with PEF while he was at a conference. I would not call that something too bad, but it might not have been something he wanted to spread around. Seriously, how many of us would want all the intimate details of relationship, even with our S.O., to be known by someone outside of that relationship?

Maybe he was searching something about depression or suicide and was embarrassed about it.

The meeting, if there was one, may not be related to the laptop's destruction. They might be unrelated events, except that RFG was planning to be in Lewisburg.

I don't often take a different path from your view with regards to the known facts...

To me, the scenario's you listed don't rise to the level of destruction that occurred. A software wipe or just the removal of the hard drive and an offer to reimburse the county for it's cost would have been sufficient.

The research on the destruction of data, the trip to Lewisburg, removing the hard drive and putting the computer and the hard drive in the river.... I am convinced what was on the hard drive was much more serious than some private information, as I am convinced the trip and the computer are tied together.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't often take a different path from your view with regards to the known facts...

To me, the scenario's you listed don't rise to the level of destruction that occurred. A software wipe or just the removal of the hard drive and an offer to reimburse the county for it's cost would have been sufficient.

The research on the destruction of data, the trip to Lewisburg, removing the hard drive and putting the computer and the hard drive in the river.... I am convinced what was on the hard drive was much more serious than some private information, as I am convinced the trip and the computer are tied together.

Well, another possibility was his travel plans.


To play Devil's Advocate, RFG may have had sensitive information about staff. We know that at least two ADA's had problems after he disappeared, one not charged but investigated by the AG, one who plead to drug charges. He may have had information that could be damaging to them, and possibly subject to blackmail, had it fallen into the wrong hands. Could you imagine what a defendant could have done if these things were known?

RFG was a prosecutor and may have seen attempts at data mining.

The only things I can really say about the laptop are:

1. Only RFG would know that whatever was on the laptop was exclusively on the laptop. No one else could know if he had copied our printed up the data.

2. RFG wanted to get rid of the data on the laptop, which may have been reasonable considering he'd be returning it.

3. RFG had an intent to destroy the laptop.

4. RFG did not have the laptop in 1998. Any Sandusky data would have had to come from another source, that no one can find.

I would point out that he was at Lake Raystown the day before, when he was spotted by the doctor. He might have been planning to toss it there.

 

[BigCat]

Possibly nothing damning, but something private. Financial data, personnel reports, heart to heart e-mails with his daughter would be in that category.

Maybe he visited risque websites and really didn't want that known; that is not quite so nice. It would be embarrassing, but not illegal. Perhaps he exchanged suggestive e-mails with PEF while he was at a conference. I would not call that something too bad, but it might not have been something he wanted to spread around. Seriously, how many of us would want all the intimate details of relationship, even with our S.O., to be known by someone outside of that relationship?

Maybe he was searching something about depression or suicide and was embarrassed about it.

The meeting, if there was one, may not be related to the laptop's destruction. They might be unrelated events, except that RFG was planning to be in Lewisburg.

Sure, I can imagine all those scenarios. If it were me, however, I would have just wiped the hard drive and returned the laptop. Or I would have buried both in my garbage can on pick up day. If I were really paranoid, I would have watched to make sure my garbage can was successfully emptied into the garbage truck. Once it's in the garbage truck, I'm in the clear. I haven't even reported it missing yet. It would be in the landfill before anyone bothered to look for it. But who would look for the retiring DA's missing/stolen laptop, especially if he reimbursed the county?

I definitely wouldn't have traveled 50 miles and thrown my laptop and hard drive into the river. Both the hard drive and laptop were discovered, and not by a massive search party either; it's my understanding they were simply discovered by fishermen and a random beach walker. RFG didn't do a particular good job of disposing of his computer, if he planned on returning.

However, if he didn't plan on returning and the hard drive contained information that would indicate how he planned to disappear and a possible destination location, then throwing it in a river near the car he was abandoning makes sense. All trace of him stops in Lewisburg. If the laptop and hard drive eventually turn up, RFG would be long gone and there would be no clue how he got out of Lewisburg and where he was headed.

JMO

 

[nittanylioness234]

I don't think there is enough evidence to say it was Gricar who tossed the laptop and/or the hard drive, or that he intended to go to Lewisburg, or that he actually made it there.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped a bit:

I definitely wouldn't have traveled 50 miles and thrown my laptop and hard drive into the river. Both the hard drive and laptop were discovered, and not by a massive search party either; it's my understanding they were simply discovered by fishermen and a random beach walker. RFG didn't do a particular good job of disposing of his computer, if he planned on returning.

A child wading and skipping stones discovered the drive.

If RFG had been planning to go to Lewisburg anyhow, it would make sense. It would be incidental to the trip.

Remember the call. It seems to have been made very close to or in Centre Hall. RFG called to say that he couldn't let the dog out. Had he delayed his departure 30-45 minutes, he could have let the dog out.

There was no schedule to toss the laptop; it wouldn't make any difference when he got to Lewisburg. He got down there sometime between Noon and 1:00 PM. If he did wait to walk the dog, he would have been down there probably no later than 1:15 - 1:45 PM.

There would have to be a different reason for RFG to drive to Lewisburg.

However, if he didn't plan on returning and the hard drive contained information that would indicate how he planned to disappear and a possible destination location, then throwing it in a river near the car he was abandoning makes sense. All trace of him stops in Lewisburg. If the laptop and hard drive eventually turn up, RFG would be long gone and there would be no clue how he got out of Lewisburg and where he was headed.

JMO

If RFG was planning to return, it also would make sense. He would not have reported the laptop destroyed immediately; he could have waited a week. The river was high and it would be very unlikely anyone would discover either the drive or laptop.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't think there is enough evidence to say it was Gricar who tossed the laptop and/or the hard drive, or that he intended to go to Lewisburg, or that he actually made it there.

A bloodhound detected his scent in the parking lot where the Mini was found, and witnesses saw him pulling in the Mini. There are at least 8 witnesses that put him in Lewisburg on 4/15, and their sighting do corroborate each other, in terms of time. I have no doubt he was there.

He looked a map to Lewisburg on his computer in the days prior to his disappearance. He also did computer search on water damage to a laptop within 30 days prior to his disappearance. Those are strong indications that RFG did both.

 

[nittanylioness234]

J.J., in your blog, "Taking a Road Not Taken," you mention a CDT article. Is that article available anywhere? Also, you mention that PSU "had huge resources that might help with the case"...do you remember what they were, and if they were ever used (see footnotes 3 and 4)? Thanks!

And I'm not convinced about the Lewisburg sightings. Are they all public knowledge? I don't recall there being that many.

 

[nittanylioness234]

...and what about Ganim's, "A Rare Spoken Side of Ray?" Is that still available?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J.J., in your blog, "Taking a Road Not Taken," you mention a CDT article. Is that article available anywhere? Also, you mention that PSU "had huge resources that might help with the case"...do you remember what they were, and if they were ever used (see footnotes 3 and 4)? Thanks!

This should have active links to each blog you mentioned, and more: http://www.centredaily.com/2011/02/24/2541875/index-of-whatmore-can-be-done.html

And I'm not convinced about the Lewisburg sightings. Are they all public knowledge? I don't recall there being that many.

Those are just the sighting in Lewisburg on 4/15/05 that have been released, and they are the minimum number stated. Sometime LE has said "three or four witnesses," for example. I count that as three.

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/03/12/2396594/the-lewisburg-witnesses-april.html

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Perhaps Ray removed the hard drive and tossed it in the river. Maybe later, someone else (not knowing the hard drive was missing) tossed the laptop in the river? This person could be someone Ray was planning to meet that day.

It is possible that RFG met someone after tossing the drive. The question would be why would he take the nonfunctional laptop with him.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

...and what about Ganim's, "A Rare Spoken Side of Ray?" Is that still available?

I don't know. Most of that was discussions with Sloane, which I've either heard from him or that have been incorporated in other things.

 

[BigCat]

Respectfully snipped

If RFG was planning to return, it also would make sense. He would not have reported the laptop destroyed immediately; he could have waited a week. The river was high and it would be very unlikely anyone would discover either the drive or laptop.

But both the drive and the laptop were eventually discovered, separately, which appears suspicious, so throwing the items into the river was not the best idea in the long term. (Of course, I'm aware we often fail to make the best decisions, so it's conceivable he threw the laptop and drive in the river and planned on returning. Just not likely, IMO)

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped



But both the drive and the laptop were eventually discovered, separately, which appears suspicious, so throwing the items into the river was not the best idea in the long term. (Of course, I'm aware we often fail to make the best decisions, so it's conceivable he threw the laptop and drive in the river and planned on returning. Just not likely, IMO)

Well, it might not look suspicious at all.

Let's, for the purposes of this post, assume that RFG was planning to return (he was a foul play victim, which prevented his return).

This is RFG's plan. He plans to toss the drive and report that he accidentally lost the laptop in river. He probably has erased it first. His story will be that he was using it on a sunny spring day and tripped, sending it into the river.

He separates the drive and tosses it from the bank near where it was found. He realizes that he can't return the laptop without the drive to make his story work, so he tosses it from the bridge.

RFG plans to report it destroyed, and reimburse the county in a week or so. No one is going to be looking for the drive or laptop in that time and, because the river is high, no one will be likely to find it randomly. When he reports it, he says that there nothing important on it.

The county will not be conducting an investigation or questioning it. If fishermen find the laptop in 2-3 months, the county will assume that the drive became detached when it "accidentally" fell into the river and may not even ask about where it was found, other than "in the river at Lewisburg."

Unless there is news story "Fishermen Catch DA's Laptop," probably humorous, the person who finds the drive doesn't even know that a laptop went missing in the Susquehanna.

 

[TechWriter797]

Ray could have tossed the hard drive and planned to replace it with a new hard drive before returning the laptop upon retirement. If foul play, the perpetrator tossed the laptop not knowing the hard drive was gone. Perp did not want files -- notes of meetings? photos? found.

 

[Trackergd]

Had he dumped the computer and drive well off shore in Raystown Lake, the chances of it being discovered would have been much less.

I am also convinced he was in Lewisburg. Too many witnesses. I suspect the LE is convinced as well.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ray could have tossed the hard drive and planned to replace it with a new hard drive before returning the laptop upon retirement.

Very possible, but it might yield a record, i.e. doing Internet searches to look for a replacement drive.

If foul play, the perpetrator tossed the laptop not knowing the hard drive was gone. Perp did not want files -- notes of meetings? photos? found.

Unless the files were put on that day, and the laptop ever left the perp's sight after that, it is impossible for him to know that the data was only on the laptop. The laptop did not have wi-fi, so it could not have been e-mailed to RFG while on the road.

RFG could have copied data on the laptop to another device, or printed it, anytime prior to leaving home. Even there, he could have copied it to a flash drive in a matter of minutes, probably in less time than it would take to remove the drive. The perp would have to search the Mini, and there is no evidence the hypothetical perp did.

That is why I am saying that either the laptop destruction is either coincidental or it wasn't foul play.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Had he dumped the computer and drive well off shore in Raystown Lake, the chances of it being discovered would have been much less.

He ran into someone who recognized him, the doctor. That might have been a factor.

I am also convinced he was in Lewisburg. Too many witnesses. I suspect the LE is convinced as well.

LE has said he was there, as early as 11/05.

You know much more about scenting than I do. What, in general, would be the odds about a bloodhound getting a false positive?