PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[J. J. in Phila]

Because of the kind of people he dealt with in his work I think it is likely that he had enemies.

I'm sure he did. However, looking at his actions, being threatened with violence does not not seem to be the cause of his acting strangely. Twice over two days (4/14-4/15), RFG drives into remote areas with spotty cell phone coverage, at best. That would be one of the last things someone threatened would do.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It seems he had an appointed time to meet someone if he couldn't wait half an hour to let the dog out. Was it friend or foe?

They have never released where he was when the call was made (or the time the witness saw him turning in Centre Hall). They did say "towers" covered the call, and there was one tower that covered the area around Rebersburg and west.

He might not have wanted to meet anyone, but to be in Lewisburg at a specific time.

Whatever it was, RFG apparently didn't feel threatened by it enough to state the purpose, even by leaving a note.

 

[BigCat]

Because of the kind of people he dealt with in his work I think it is likely that he had enemies.

The same could be said for all DA's; however, as a group, they are seldom victims of homicide.

 

[BigCat]

I'm sure he did. However, looking at his actions, being threatened with violence does not not seem to be the cause of his acting strangely. Twice over two days (4/14-4/15), RFG drives into remote areas with spotty cell phone coverage, at best. That would be one of the last things someone threatened would do.

One of my most likely foul play scenarios involves RFG meeting a co-conspirator in illegal, unethical, or immoral behavior who lures him to a secluded location and then murders him. Otherwise, why would he travel to a remote location to meet a person(s) he considered an enemy? I guess he could have been tricked; if so, we're dealing with a criminal mastermind who was able to trick an experience DA into to traveling to a secluded area and then made his body disappear without leaving a crime scene. I can't rule it out. It seems unlikely, though.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

One of my most likely foul play scenarios involves RFG meeting a co-conspirator in illegal, unethical, or immoral behavior who lures him to a secluded location and then murders him. Otherwise, why would he travel to a remote location to meet a person(s) he considered an enemy? I guess he could have been tricked; if so, we're dealing with a criminal mastermind who was able to trick an experience DA into to traveling to a secluded area and then made his body disappear without leaving a crime scene. I can't rule it out. It seems unlikely, though.

The "brilliant killer" theory was one of my first theories.

And, of course, I did a blog on it: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/21/2396785/murder-i-a-meeting-for-murder.html

Then, I updated it: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/04/10/3157763/a-meeting-for-murder-20.html

There are some problems with it, including no notes on whatever the "big case" would be and resorting to the "play hooky" excuse.

This would have to be contact with someone without leaving ANY electronic trace and no paperwork. Add to that that RFG was not exactly an idiot nor was he naive nor inexperienced in dealing with a criminal element.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped.

One of my most likely foul play scenarios involves RFG meeting a co-conspirator in illegal, unethical, or immoral behavior who lures him to a secluded location and then murders him. Otherwise, why would he travel to a remote location to meet a person(s) he considered an enemy?

Yes, but I would point out that we don't have anything illegal that has surfaced, even in Sandusky.

RFG would be in a position where he could blackmail people, but we are not sitting around saying "Where did he get all this money?" That kind of eliminates blackmail. The sole unethical behavior we've had from RFG in 33 years was pressuring a defense expert witness to drop out, and that was not violent and was by phone.

"Immoral" can have a fluid meaning. Some people consider marriage after divorce immoral. Some people would say the same thing about a man and woman living together without being married.

I don't know if I'd classify it as being "immoral," but I think the possibility of RFG meeting a woman in Lewisburg is possible. I could understand why he would not tell PEF about it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped:

I assume you were familiar with the political situation in Centre County at the time. Was his retirement announcement unexpected? .

It is generally unusual to announce more than a year out. RFG was 58 at the time.

From the questions from the reporter, I'd doubt it was expected.

I've heard of people announcing that it would be their last term just after their last reelection; I think that is what Buehner did. I've heard of people announcing it in the last part of the year before the election, or in the January/February of the year when they could be reelected. The timing was a bit unusual.

 

[BigCat]

I watched the movie Jack Reacher for the first time recently. I can't say that I recommend it (Unfortunately, Tom Cruise is horribly miscast). Jack Reacher is a man who walked away from his previous life in the military. Now, like Huck Finn, Jack Kerouac, Dr David Banner/The Incredible Hulk and numerous other males in American literature and entertainment, he simply drifts. I thought the following quote was the highlight of the movie:

"Look out the window. Tell me what you see. You see the same things that you see everyday. Well, imagine you've never seen it. Imagine you spent your whole life in other parts of the world, being told everyday that you're defending freedom. Then you finally decide you've had enough. Time to see what you've given up your whole life for, everything. Get some of that "freedom" for yourself. Look at the people. You tell me which ones are free. Free from debt. Anxiety. Stress. Fear. Failure. Indignity. Betrayal. How many wish that they were born knowing what they know now? Ask yourself how many would do things the same way over again, and how many would live their lives like me."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I watched the movie Jack Reacher for the first time recently. I can't say that I recommend it (Unfortunately, Tom Cruise is horribly miscast). Jack Reacher is a man who walked away from his previous life in the military. Now, like Huck Finn, Jack Kerouac, Dr David Banner/The Incredible Hulk and numerous other males in American literature and entertainment, he simply drifts. I thought the following quote was the highlight of the movie:

"Look out the window. Tell me what you see. You see the same things that you see everyday. Well, imagine you've never seen it. Imagine you spent your whole life in other parts of the world, being told everyday that you're defending freedom. Then you finally decide you've had enough. Time to see what you've given up your whole life for, everything. Get some of that "freedom" for yourself. Look at the people. You tell me which ones are free. Free from debt. Anxiety. Stress. Fear. Failure. Indignity. Betrayal. How many wish that they were born knowing what they know now? Ask yourself how many would do things the same way over again, and how many would live their lives like me."

I think it linked someplace on this thread, but yes, there was a blog on that as well. The concept of “the wanderer” was prevalent in American culture during RFG's teenage and early adult years. Leaving your life behind was portrayed as being romantic and adventurous.

It is conceivable that this was RFG's sole motive and that he did become "the wanderer." It is more conceivable that it one of several. It still isn't proof that he walked away.

 

[nittanylioness234]

No, he was not a lock in my estimation. In 2001, RFG had run against a defense attorney, Bob Bascom, in the R Primary. Bascom got about 45% of the vote, with RFG getting 55%. That 45% is exceptionally unusual in an R primary against an incumbent office holder at the county level, especially one holding office for 16 years.

I have often thought that the reason RFG had chosen to retire in 2005 was poor performance in 2001.

There were some problems that Gricar had mid term, including being sanctioned by judge for improper contact with a defense expert witness.

As for "dirty" there was a website that was titled "Gricar Must Go." You can read a description of it here: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/07/14/2396563/not-everybody-loves-raymond.html

I do not think RFG was a shoe in for renomination. I also thing he was surprised JKA was on the ballot. [She did win the Democratic nomination.]Edit: Here is the GMG archived site: https://web.archive.org/web/20040413161636/http://gricarmustgo.com/Information.html

Are you saying that Arnold was taking steps to run against Gricar?

 

[nittanylioness234]

Self snipped



Based on #4 and #6, we can rule out RFG being concerned about his physical safety causing #3.

The route between Raystown Lake has about 12 miles where it is nothing forests and farms. It would take LE some time to responded even with a call. RFG probably drove that stretch twice. It looks like from a map, that there would be about 15-20 miles without coverage each way (including part of Route 22). http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php?city=state college&state_abr=pa

So, if RFG is concerned, on 4/14, about his safety, he is taking a gigantic risk. It would also be difficult (if not impossible) to follow him on this route, and not be spotted. He didn't report that there was a threat or that anyone was following him. Yet, on the morning of 4/14, he was acting unusually at the Prison Board meeting.

On 4/15, RFG, if he is meeting someone, doesn't leave any notes to where he will be or who he will be meeting. Since he did the Lewisburg search on his office computer, and was in the office on 4/14, he could have left the information there. He also chose a route that was remote, and included a cell phone "dead zone," even though there was an alternative route (I-80), that both had cell coverage and was patrolled by the PSP.

Whatever was bothering RFG, it was not a physical threat to his safety.

He may have been concerned, but made the trips anyway, for some unknown reason.

 

[nittanylioness234]

Are you saying that Arnold was taking steps to run against Gricar?

Never mind. Of course, he had already announced his retirement by then. I should not post when I am sleepy!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

[/B]

He may have been concerned, but made the trips anyway, for some unknown reason.

On 4/15/05, no. RFG could have taken I-80 to Lewisburg, which is patrolled by the PSP and is covered by cell towers (I think the whole route).

RFG specifically chose a route that lacked cell coverage and was not normally patrolled by police. A bit more than half of 192 is actually in Centre County, so RFG would know what police patrols were like along the route.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Never mind. Of course, he had already announced his retirement by then. I should not post when I am sleepy!

In PA, to get on the ballot you need petition with x number of names of registered voters, of the party on whose ballot your name will appear, in the constituency, just to get your name printed on the ballot. I think you DA, you needed 250 names, though it is a good idea to get some extras. JKA needed the names of 250 (?) Registered Democrats just to get on the ballot in the primary.

The state limits the time the candidate can collect those signatures to about 3 weeks. A candidate had to file by 5:00 PM on the last day of those 3 weeks.

RFG was asked about her candidacy on 3/8/05 by a reporter, the last day to file. That was the first documented recorded time that he seemed to act unusually. His answer about who'd he support in the fall election (between the winners of each party in the primary), "he never came up with a coherent answer," in contrast to his more "fluid" answer about who'd support between the Republican candidates. http://web.archive.org/web/20070913...ntredaily.com/the_thin_man/2006/11/index.html

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If I did it right, I've attached the election calendar through mid March, 2005.

The Primary, when the Republican (Madeira) and Democratic (Arnold) nominees would be chosen was May 17.

"Nominating Papers" refer to candidates that not running under a party banner in the Municipal Election in the Fall.

 

[Trackergd]

On 4/15/05, no. RFG could have taken I-80 to Lewisburg, which is patrolled by the PSP and is covered by cell towers (I think the whole route).

RFG specifically chose a route that lacked cell coverage and was not normally patrolled by police. A bit more than half of 192 is actually in Centre County, so RFG would know what police patrols were like along the route.

So when I drive up, I probably should take this route to see if anything jumps out at me.

 

[Trackergd]

RFG was asked about her candidacy on 3/8/05 by a reporter, the last day to file. That was the first documented recorded time that he seemed to act unusually. His answer about who'd he support in the fall election (between the winners of each party in the primary), "he never came up with a coherent answer," in contrast to his more "fluid" answer about who'd support between the Republican candidates. http://web.archive.org/web/20070913...ntredaily.com/the_thin_man/2006/11/index.html

Respectfully sniped for space and RBBM.

In my opinion, this may have been a an emotional response to a chapter in his life closing. A job he took pride in and the enormity of walking away from his daily routine was starting to sink in. This was the first political step in not running for office again, a "trigger" or "stressor" if you will. Some folks who are wedded to their job show emotion or change in character when they finally make the decision to retire.

 

[MissJ]

JMO but I don't think any of us can say that we know what RFG had on his mind or whether he had reasons to be afraid.

 

[MissJ]

Leaving your profession behind is stressful even if you are looking forward to retirement.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully sniped for space and RBBM.

In my opinion, this may have been a an emotional response to a chapter in his life closing. A job he took pride in and the enormity of walking away from his daily routine was starting to sink in. This was the first political step in not running for office again, a "trigger" or "stressor" if you will. Some folks who are wedded to their job show emotion or change in character when they finally make the decision to retire.

Yes, but look at what the author, Mike Joseph, the veteran political reporter at the CDT said. RFG seemed to be fine discussing Bascom and Madeira. When Arnold was mentioned, his answer became indefinite.

As far as I know, even at that time, Arnold was not hostile to RFG. She isn't now.

I do agree with with both your and MissJ's points the realization of retiring could cause the change. It wouldn't be due to a physical threat, however.

This points to something voluntary, though suicide is a bit higher with this that walkaway.