PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[J. J. in Phila]

Has anyone ever looked into his high school or college days the reason i ask is because he was just about done with the DA stuff and I wonder if maybe he had a long time love in his younger days and they after all these years and him being done with the DA job maybe and this is just a thought maybe he met up with this old gf and decided to take off with her ..it would accound for why he is missing still and account for why he was seen with a girl..

He married his college sweetheart, as it where. That was his first wife.

Nobody with any connection to him is missing.

 

[MissJ]

I'll add that the sighting in Lewisburg were mist likely false. People attempted to identify a man they never seen or knew. Case of people wanting to help and feel important. A prime example is the arrested Utah man who looked a lot like Gricar but was not. That was LE in Utah thinking it was him and not some random Lewisburg resident.

I agree...eye witnesses have been wrong many, many times.

 

[SuperSmith]

Statistically, I think most missing persons cases are voluntary.

A trail can be hidden. We have examples of people, who, with very limited resources, and certainly not as intelligent, educated, or experienced as RFG disappearing.

As for Lewisburg, the witnesses corroborate each other, his scent was detected in the parking lot, and the car was found there. He was there on 4/15/05. at as of about 6:00 PM.

You are correct but that statistic is only for juveniles.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You are correct but that statistic is only for juveniles.

It includes juveniles, but also includes adults. It is the overall statistic.

 

[MissJ]

It includes juveniles, but also includes adults. It is the overall statistic.

Can you tell where the stats are from?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Can you tell where the stats are from?

Here: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nc...n-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2013

I will stress, in general. That includes people that run out on their debts, abandon their wife and young baby, maybe running off with their secretary, those types of things.

 

[SuperSmith]

It includes juveniles, but also includes adults. It is the overall statistic.

Although alternative theories exist among us all I cannot stress enough that it incredibly difficult to disappear in this decade making walk away the bottom of the list. Did you know that we are caught on a camera an average of 200 times a day!? Couple that with being at least a higher than average profiled missing person case it becomes increasingly more difficult to disappear. We are talking about a top LE agent for a large County and that has since been linked to the Sandusky case. If you need the icing and cherry on top then remember that no known motive exists for Ray Gricar to up and leave 8 months from retirement, leave his GF, daughter, friends, big pension. All of equates to walk away being around 1-2% likelihood.

Conversely there are 100's of motives for a long sitting DA to become a target of foul play.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Although alternative theories exist among us all I cannot stress enough that it incredibly difficult to disappear in this decade making walk away the bottom of the list. Did you know that we are caught on a camera an average of 200 times a day!? Couple that with being at least a higher than average profiled missing person case it becomes increasingly more difficult to disappear. We are talking about a top LE agent for a large County and that has since been linked to the Sandusky case. If you need the icing and cherry on top then remember that no known motive exists for Ray Gricar to up and leave 8 months from retirement, leave his GF, daughter, friends, big pension. All of equates to walk away being around 1-2% likelihood.

Conversely there are 100's of motives for a long sitting DA to become a target of foul play.

First, on the cameras, they only work if someone looks at the tape. There may hundreds of cameras out there, but there are hundreds of pairs of eyes to watch them. Recently, in Philadelphia, two police officers were charged with beating a suspect. There was a video of it, but nobody found it until the victim's girlfriend checked all the cameras in the area. This was in a 1-2 block area, not Central Pennsylvania.

There is no shortage of potential motives. RFG could, for example, have realized that his heirs would collect greater benefits if he were to die, or seemingly die, prior to his retirement. Likewise, it has been suggested that he would not face the results of the Sandusky case. More broadly, RFG might have wanted a break with his identity as a (soon to be) former DA. There really is no shortage of motives.

 

[SuperSmith]

First, on the cameras, they only work if someone looks at the tape. There may hundreds of cameras out there, but there are hundreds of pairs of eyes to watch them. Recently, in Philadelphia, two police officers were charged with beating a suspect. There was a video of it, but nobody found it until the victim's girlfriend checked all the cameras in the area. This was in a 1-2 block area, not Central Pennsylvania.

There is no shortage of potential motives. RFG could, for example, have realized that his heirs would collect greater benefits if he were to die, or seemingly die, prior to his retirement. Likewise, it has been suggested that he would not face the results of the Sandusky case. More broadly, RFG might have wanted a break with his identity as a (soon to be) former DA. There really is no shortage of motives.

In my opinion your walk away theories are a bit far fetched and of a very low percentage especially up against the real possibilities of foul play of a 30 year LE agent.

Of course you are welcome to your opinion

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In my opinion your walk away theories are a bit far fetched and of a very low percentage especially up against the real possibilities of foul play of a 30 year LE agent.

Of course you are welcome to your opinion

First, I do not deny the real possibility of foul play. However, there is no actual evidence that points exclusively to that possibility.

One the other hand, there is more information that points to walkaway, and much more that points to RFG's disappearance being voluntary, which would include suicide.

 

[SuperSmith]

First, I do not deny the real possibility of foul play. However, there is no actual evidence that points exclusively to that possibility.

One the other hand, there is more information that points to walkaway, and much more that points to RFG's disappearance being voluntary, which would include suicide.

One thing that you keep bringing up is that Gricar may have wanted to set up his daughter with his pension, that he was worth more to her dead. That is not evidence yet you use it in your arguments and post as such.

Being tired and napping is not evidence of walkaway yet you use it as such.

Not prosecuting Sandusky is not evidence of walkaway yet you use it as such.

There is no evidence of walkaway, only opinion.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

One thing that you keep bringing up is that Gricar may have wanted to set up his daughter with his pension, that he was worth more to her dead. That is not evidence yet you use it in your arguments and post as such.

Being tired and napping is not evidence of walkaway yet you use it as such.

Not prosecuting Sandusky is not evidence of walkaway yet you use it as such.

There is no evidence of walkaway, only opinion.

On the first part, his will get more money, that could be evidence of something voluntary. It would point to a motivation for walking away or committing suicide. Simply put, because RFG is not there, his heirs get more. We can also add that he did not have a huge amount of assets.

Actually, it has been suggested that not wanting to face the fallout from the 1998 decision could be a motive, but it was not suggested by me. I think it could be broader, not wanting to be the "ex-DA." In all fairness, Sara Ganim would have been banging on his front door in mid to late 2011, with the rest of the media showing up in November. We have seen something similar in the Chris Lee case, but on a smaller scale.

As for "napping" is is much broader, with a wide range of sources saying that RFG was acting uncharacteristically. "Distraught" was one term used. Again, that points to voluntary. It could be argued that RFG was worried about his physical safety. However, venturing into areas with spotty or nonexistent cell phone communication, that are not regularly patrolled by the police, and that are sparsely populated is not indicative of that. Especially when he did that on 4/14.

Now, these three pieces of information point to voluntary action, though not necessarily walkaway.

We can can also add his desire to eliminate the data on the laptop.

 

[SuperSmith]

Conversely, planning to be at a family members graduation in May 2005, retiring to travel the states eventually visiting his daughter, collecting a well deserved pension, and not having the alarm clock life points away from voluntary disappearance.

The Sandusky angle is without merit and Ganim never suggested that is why RG disappeared. If he was truly worried about being "that DA" don't you think he would've left much sooner than 7 years after the fact? There's no way of knowing when/if the Sandusky thing would've came to light.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Conversely, planning to be at a family members graduation in May 2005, retiring to travel the states eventually visiting his daughter, collecting a well deserved pension, and not having the alarm clock life points away from voluntary disappearance.

The Sandusky angle is without merit and Ganim never suggested that is why RG disappeared. If he was truly worried about being "that DA" don't you think he would've left much sooner than 7 years after the fact? There's no way of knowing when/if the Sandusky thing would've came to light.

Giving his heirs a greater payout may be higher than collecting the pension. Not having an alarm clock is obviously present if this walkaway (though not suicide). The same with traveling.

I have no doubt that if RFG's location was known in November 2011, he would have been subject to press scrutiny. He probably would have been called before the grand jury and possibly as a witness in the trial, at the very least. It isn't so much as being "that DA," as being "the ex-DA."

In short, there is circumstantial evidence that points clearly to RFG's disappearance being voluntary, though not necessarily walkaway.

 

[Trackergd]

One thing that you keep bringing up is that Gricar may have wanted to set up his daughter with his pension, that he was worth more to her dead. That is not evidence yet you use it in your arguments and post as such.

Being tired and napping is not evidence of walkaway yet you use it as such.

Not prosecuting Sandusky is not evidence of walkaway yet you use it as such.

There is no evidence of walkaway, only opinion.

RBBM

Did you read the redacted financials that I paid good money to get my hands on?

 

[SuperSmith]

RBBM

Did you read the redacted financials that I paid good money to get my hands on?

I did but does nothing to prove this theory is even in the ballpark. I'm sure we all are worth more to our loved ones dead vs alive speaking in financial terms. That does NOT however mean in anyway that was his motivation! Seeing her graduation, marry, have grand kids ect. to me would mean a heck of a lot more to Lara than money. She is educated and successful. RG was never shy about giving her money should she have needed it (hence the joint account). I for one grow tired of a large percent painting an image of Ray Gricar as some cold hearted, irresponsible, wildcat that ditched his woman, his daughter, his job, and everything else just so Lara could collect a large paycheck.

Come on, get real people

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I did but does nothing to prove this theory is even in the ballpark. I'm sure we all are worth more to our loved ones dead vs alive speaking in financial terms. That does NOT however mean in anyway that was his motivation! Seeing her graduation, marry, have grand kids ect. to me would mean a heck of a lot more to Lara than money. She is educated and successful. RG was never shy about giving her money should she have needed it (hence the joint account). I for one grow tired of a large percent painting an image of Ray Gricar as some cold hearted, irresponsible, wildcat that ditched his woman, his daughter, his job, and everything else just so Lara could collect a large paycheck.

Come on, get real people

I think the claim that anyone is suggesting RFG is "some cold hearted, irresponsible, wildcat," is totally off base. Many parents care about providing for their children. It certainly is not "irresponsible" to do so. His daughter was more than 2000 miles away, his job (and his career as a lawyer) was ending, and his woman was provided for.

Keep in mind that it is not what it mean to Lara Gricar, but to Ray Gricar. In discussing potential motives , it is something that must be looked at.

 

[SuperSmith]

RBBM

Did you read the redacted financials that I paid good money to get my hands on?

Tracker, I'm interested in your opinion and I'm sure you can answer for yourself. Thank you in advance.

 

[SuperSmith]

I think the claim that anyone is suggesting RFG is "some cold hearted, irresponsible, wildcat," is totally off base. Many parents care about providing for their children. It certainly is not "irresponsible" to do so. His daughter was more than 2000 miles away, his job (and his career as a lawyer) was ending, and his woman was provided for.


Keep in mind that it is not what it mean to Lara Gricar, but to Ray Gricar. In discussing potential motives , it is something that must be looked at.

For what YOU have suggested in order to have the Lara collect his death benefit he would have to skip out on his job, his girlfriend, friends, and Lara herself. Now I don't know what irresponsible and cold hearted mean where you are from but that is textbook definitions of the aforementioned. Now from my countless pages of reading here and your old blogs it is you alone that promote Gricar in this light. Sounds personal to me.

 

[SuperSmith]

It's insulting to think Lara would care more about money than the presence of her father. It's insulting to believe Ray would think his daughter would be better off without his presence.

I really hope everyone here will change the narrative that has blanketed this thread by one individual and you all begin to believe what actually is rational probibilities.

I concede it is always a slight possibility that Ray walked away but not because of a death benefit to his daughter.