PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[J. J. in Phila]

For what YOU have suggested in order to have the Lara collect his death benefit he would have to skip out on his job, his girlfriend, friends, and Lara herself. Now I don't know what irresponsible and cold hearted mean where you are from but that is textbook definitions of the aforementioned. Now from my countless pages of reading here and your old blogs it is you alone that promote Gricar in this light. Sounds personal to me.

I suggest that it could be RFG's motivation. A father providing for his child, even his adult child, is hardly irresponsible or cold hearted where I come from.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It's insulting to think Lara would care more about money than the presence of her father. It's insulting to believe Ray would think his daughter would be better off without his presence.

I really hope everyone here will change the narrative that has blanketed this thread by one individual and you all begin to believe what actually is rational probibilities.

I concede it is always a slight possibility that Ray walked away but not because of a death benefit to his daughter.

This doesn't have anything to do with what Lara thinks. If the disappearance was voluntary (including suicide), it would be with what RFG thought.

The problem is simply evidence. What evidence exists, strongly points to some voluntary action. Follow the evidence.

Now, I will readily state that it is not conclusive, but the weight of it points to voluntary action on RFG's part.

 

[MissJ]

FWIW, I never thought that leaving behind a pension (for his daughter who could take care of herself) that he had worked hard for was motivation for walkaway.

 

[Trackergd]

Tracker, I'm interested in your opinion and I'm sure you can answer for yourself. Thank you in advance.

I had every intention of getting out to Lewisburg last year to check the few wooded areas that would have been available to RG had he been intent on suicide. I will try again this year. I want to apply my experience to work on this and rule this option in or out for myself.

At this juncture, we can speculate about foul play, but there is little to no evidence. While I think any foul play would be tied to "happy valley" big money, no direct ties have been found, however the political intrigue and back stabbing sure do make one wonder what in the heck is going on in that neck of the woods and why.

On the financial end, I have had a trust manager and banker friends review the financials and even run them past a corporate attorney. The consensus was that there are a couple of things that "appear" irregular, such as petitioning the court successfully to keep the tax information out of the public eye.

I struggle with the sightings of Ray in Lewisburg. One could make arguments either way, however the car and the laptop were found there. I still have a lot of questions about the laptop and hard drive. Why would one go to such trouble to dispose of a computer that was sitting in a closet at home most of the time?

The smoke smell and ash in the mini suggest to me that someone else was driving it at one point. If RG was seen with a woman in Lewisburg, I suspect it was one of the staff of his Attorney who were all women.

To me it all smells "clandestine" for what ever reason. I can't wrap my mind around it without putting boots on the ground in what some feel is the Last Known Place. I also want to drive the route he took to see if anything pops out. I also suspect PSP knows far more than we do.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Until about December of 2004, RFG had used the laptop as a home computer, which would include personal things. He bought the desktop after he he had begun to make the inquiries on how to get rid of the data.

 

[Trackergd]

Until about December of 2004, RFG had used the laptop as a home computer, which would include personal things. He bought the desktop after he he had begun to make the inquiries on how to get rid of the data.

Which brings up the question in my mind... There were a number of DOD level wipe software programs available at the time that would have made recovery of any data on the hard drive impossible, even to Kroll Ontrack. Why remove the hard drive and toss the lap top and hard drive into the river? Seems overkill unless the data was potentially explosive and/or damning to someone. And why would that data be on a home laptop owned by the county?

 

[snowleopard]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I can't remember if fingerprints found in his car. Were there any? Many or few? Smudged or clear?

 

[snowleopard]

Sorry to answer my own question, but I checked the 'Disappeared' episode and the quote by the narrator was that 'several prints were found' inside the car but Det. Rickard says there was not enough detail to id them. Rickard said several prints were also found outside the driver's side window that were id'ed as Rays. Does the lack of clear prints mean anything? Could that be just the nature of the car's interior, or something else? Also, the cigarette but had a distinct DNA profile, but did not match anyone known to Ray. I like JJ's analysis, but the ash and buts are big outliers to me. Did Ray meet with someone, not communicate to Patty and his daughter and then commit suicide? That seems very hard to believe. Could someone have positioned his car there to make it look like suicide? Sounds a bit Hollywood. In the Disappeared episode it certainly seems that Rays nephew and Patty are leaning suicide. But that cigarette evidence really doesn't fit very well.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Which brings up the question in my mind... There were a number of DOD level wipe software programs available at the time that would have made recovery of any data on the hard drive impossible, even to Kroll Ontrack. Why remove the hard drive and toss the lap top and hard drive into the river? Seems overkill unless the data was potentially explosive and/or damning to someone. And why would that data be on a home laptop owned by the county?

RFG might not have known that, or he might not have wanted anything on there to see the light of day. And, it could have been explosive data.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Sorry to answer my own question, but I checked the 'Disappeared' episode and the quote by the narrator was that 'several prints were found' inside the car but Det. Rickard says there was not enough detail to id them. Rickard said several prints were also found outside the driver's side window that were id'ed as Rays. Does the lack of clear prints mean anything? Could that be just the nature of the car's interior, or something else? Also, the cigarette but had a distinct DNA profile, but did not match anyone known to Ray. I like JJ's analysis, but the ash and buts are big outliers to me. Did Ray meet with someone, not communicate to Patty and his daughter and then commit suicide? That seems very hard to believe. Could someone have positioned his car there to make it look like suicide? Sounds a bit Hollywood. In the Disappeared episode it certainly seems that Rays nephew and Patty are leaning suicide. But that cigarette evidence really doesn't fit very well.

Agreed. It is possible someone was on the passenger side door leaning in through the window. It could have been a killer or it could have been a helper.

They did find RFG's fingerprints on the outside of the driver's side window. There was a bottle of water with his DNA in it in the Mini. The bloodhound detected his scent in the parking lot, bit not outside of it.

 

[Trackergd]

RFG might not have known that, or he might not have wanted anything on there to see the light of day. And, it could have been explosive data.

There was evidence that he had done research in how to destroy data on a hard drive prior to the event. It is reasonable to assume that:
A) He did not want the purchase of the wipe software to show up in county records. But oddly enough failed to delete the search history.
B) Did not have time to purchase the software.
C) He was going to wipe the data after the "event" (what ever it was and where ever it was) and the whole thing took an unplanned detour and either he tossed the laptop or someone else did.

What ever that data was, I am convinced it was very damning for someone. Question is, why store it on a county owned laptop that was being used as a home PC and stored in a closet? Being in a relationship, if my partner had a laptop that I knew about and she never let me see it and it was hidden out of sight when not in use, I would be pretty darn curious about what in the heck was going on and the answer why better be pretty damn good...

The list of explosive data is a rather short one.
A) Something ugly going on in the county.
B) Something personal that could be damning
C) Related to Sandusky
D) Feel free to add something I have not considered.

 

[Trackergd]

Agreed. It is possible someone was on the passenger side door leaning in through the window. It could have been a killer or it could have been a helper.

They did find RFG's fingerprints on the outside of the driver's side window. There was a bottle of water with his DNA in it in the Mini. The bloodhound detected his scent in the parking lot, bit not outside of it.

I am curious how those WS members who feel RG was never in Lewisburg explain away the scent evidence? I get how the mini could have been driven there by others and it is (a stretch) possible that a number of individuals misidentified someone as RG, but not the bloodhound scent evidence.

 

[SuperSmith]

RFG might not have known that, or he might not have wanted anything on there to see the light of day. And, it could have been explosive data.

Or he could've wanted to wipe the drive before retirement and since it was no longer used. Data on the laptop could've consisted of his bank info, credit card info, or employee reviews.

Using a computer from work for personal things of nature is not unusual. I still do it. Windows washer software was said to have been purchased but only the box was found by LE. The search terms revealed on the home computer I believe was to find a way to erase the hard drive prior to turning it back in to the county. I believe the computer in the river is a decoy to throw off LE and the public.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped a bit.

B) Did not have time to purchase the software.

They found an empty box for the software and PEF indicated she had seen it previously.
C) He was going to wipe the data after the "event" (what ever it was and where ever it was) and the whole thing took an unplanned detour and either he tossed the laptop or someone else did.

What ever that data was, I am convinced it was very damning for someone. Question is, why store it on a county owned laptop that was being used as a home PC and stored in a closet?

It could have been something of a personal matter. Maybe he liked taking risque photos of PEF (or PEF was the photographer), or something of that sort. As that was his only home computer, anything he wanted to look at from home would be on it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Or he could've wanted to wipe the drive before retirement and since it was no longer used. Data on the laptop could've consisted of his bank info, credit card info, or employee reviews.

Using a computer from work for personal things of nature is not unusual. I still do it. Windows washer software was said to have been purchased but only the box was found by LE. The search terms revealed on the home computer I believe was to find a way to erase the hard drive prior to turning it back in to the county. I believe the computer in the river is a decoy to throw off LE and the public.

It could have been that just as well.

I don't find it unusual for anyone to want to destroy an old computer.

 

[SuperSmith]

I am curious how those WS members who feel RG was never in Lewisburg explain away the scent evidence? I get how the mini could have been driven there by others and it is (a stretch) possible that a number of individuals misidentified someone as RG, but not the bloodhound scent evidence.

That same bloodhound found no trace of RGs scent in or around the SOS where one of, perhaps the most credible, had said he saw Gricar inside standing and waiting. Sightings are at best 50/50.

As a professional you would know that cast off scent from and around his car would've existed. From the car, the laptop possbibly, or someone that had direct physical contact with Gricar.

I don't suggest that he wasn't 100% in Lewisburg just that everything known is not the most reliable.

As I said prior LE misidentified him in Utah. That is trained professionals and not ordinary citizens

 

[SuperSmith]

There was evidence that he had done research in how to destroy data on a hard drive prior to the event. It is reasonable to assume that:
A) He did not want the purchase of the wipe software to show up in county records. But oddly enough failed to delete the search history.
B) Did not have time to purchase the software.
C) He was going to wipe the data after the "event" (what ever it was and where ever it was) and the whole thing took an unplanned detour and either he tossed the laptop or someone else did.

What ever that data was, I am convinced it was very damning for someone. Question is, why store it on a county owned laptop that was being used as a home PC and stored in a closet? Being in a relationship, if my partner had a laptop that I knew about and she never let me see it and it was hidden out of sight when not in use, I would be pretty darn curious about what in the heck was going on and the answer why better be pretty damn good...

The list of explosive data is a rather short one.
A) Something ugly going on in the county.
B) Something personal that could be damning
C) Related to Sandusky
D) Feel free to add something I have not considered.

Why are you convinced it contained info that was damning to someone?

Isn't a simple explanation that he wanted to purge confidential data for cases, his notes, perhaps personal data prior to handing it back into the County???

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped a bit.

.

As I said prior LE misidentified him in Utah. That is trained professionals and not ordinary citizens

No one from LE misidentified the man in Provo, UT, Beavers for RFG. A number of people on the Internet did. He had different eye color and was two inches taller.

 

[SuperSmith]

Snipped a bit.



No one from LE misidentified the man in Provo, UT, Beavers for RFG. A number of people on the Internet did. He had different eye color and was two inches taller.

It was my understanding at the time that Utah LE sent a photo of the man to Bellefonte PD for positive identification

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It was my understanding at the time that Utah LE sent a photo of the man to Bellefonte PD for positive identification

That is incorrect. After the story hit the papers, the BPD did check, but not the Provo Police.

I will admit that there was a strong facial similarity, but not with his eye color and height.