PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #5

[J. J. in Phila]

This is the one that is possible as a murder scenario:

RFG was meeting someone in Lewisburg on 4/15/05. It was at least social; it may have been sexual. He was planning to dispose of the hard drive, but it was just a matter of convenience; it was not directly related to the disappearance. The person he was going to meeting was a woman.

They met possibly for dinner; she may have the woman from the Street of Shops. He have spent the weekend with her and he may have been alive as late as 4/19/05. They left in the woman's car.

Something, however, happened. Possibly an argument that got out of hand. Possibly the woman's significant other showed up (even after she left). RFG was murdered. The body was hidden, but away from the immediate area of where the Mini was found and possibly close to where he died.

I would call this the most likely murder possibility.

(I'll give you some more on the laptop.)

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The first thing that should be listed, before I start speculating are some facts:

1. Bellefonte had experienced a rash of car break ins in the weeks before RFG disappeared. As DA, he would have known.

2. The Mini did not have a separate trunk compartment, only a hatchback; someone breaking into the car could have just put the seat down.

3. For a long time, RFG wanted some data on the laptop to never see the light of day. That is not suspicious in the least as he used the laptop as his home computer. He talked to friends about how to get rid of the date and researched on-line how to destroy the drive. That would have the effect of destroying the data and would more completely destroyed it. The erasure disk is also missing.

4. Bellefonte is to the west of Lewisburg and the bridge. The laptop was found on the north side of the bridge; it could have been tossed by someone heading for Bellefonte, easily. It would difficult, approaching impossible to lob the the laptop across a lane of traffic and have it end up where it did.

On the south side of the bridge is a walkway; had anyone been on foot, the south side would be ideal for tossing it. The laptop was on the north side.

Those are the four facts. Next post is the theory.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As indicated, RFG had a long term desire to make sure something on the laptop never saw the light of day. One theory is that on 4/15/05 he fulfilled that desire, and then he was murdered.

RFG took the laptop with him to Lewisburg, possibly double checked the hard drive, erased it, then pulled and tossed it, where it was found six months later.

RFG was going to Lewisburg to meet someone socially (that is inclusive of meeting a lover, but not limited to it). He got down their early. When the other person showed up, he remembered the car break ins and thought that it would be safer to take it with him. He put it the other person's car and the drove off. He might have even told her something like **I tossed the drive in the river,** but he didn't say exactly where. Maybe she forgot about it.

During the course of the weekend, RFG was murdered. She forgot about the laptop when she got rid of the body. She might not have remembered it until she heard the press reports later in the week of the 18th (I think it was first published on 4/22.) She has a problem. She can't hide it with the hidden body, and it has a county tag on it. It ties her to RFG.

The other person knows the drive is someplace in the river around Lewisburg. She drives back, on the north side of the bridge, heading west, toward Bellefonte, slows up, puts the laptop on the edge of the open passenger side window and gives it just a bit of a shove. It drops into the water, where it found by the fishermen on 7/30/05.

She might have waited a few weeks until the site received less attention.

I don't think this is quite as strong as walkaway, but it still strong. This possibility is really the one keeping me up at night.

 

[arielilane]

Maybe he wanted the hard drive destroyed, so that it wouldn't reveal who the person he planned to meet and be with? jmo

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Maybe he wanted the hard drive destroyed, so that it wouldn't reveal who the person he planned to meet and be with? jmo

He had expressed an interest in destroying the data 9-15 months before he disappeared. He researched how to destroy the drive within 30 days of his disappearance.

 

[justathought]

Did Ray have unaccounted for funds? Could he have inherited or even won a lottery pot of some kind. I keep thinking what he didn't want others to find on that laptop was the bank accounts holding his unaccounted for funds. Learning that the house was Patty's, most likely without a mortgage, I think he put the car in her name as a way of "paying" her for living there. It seems like I read somewhere that it was possible that he was putting money away separately. I think the walk away is likely because he just didn't want to tell Patty that he had decided to travel a different road. It's hard to explain the daughter, though. But the fact after all this time she hasn't moved to collect the pension when she said on the Disappeared show she thought he was dead is puzzling.
JJ, why would the woman kill him?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Did Ray have unaccounted for funds? Could he have inherited or even won a lottery pot of some kind. I keep thinking what he didn't want others to find on that laptop was the bank accounts holding his unaccounted for funds. Learning that the house was Patty's, most likely without a mortgage, I think he put the car in her name as a way of "paying" her for living there. It seems like I read somewhere that it was possible that he was putting money away separately.

RFG paid of part of PEF's mortgage and never had his name added to the deed. He made from 1998 more than $100,000 gross in salary, per year, and had just over $100,000 in assets. There certainly appears to be a lack of assets.

JJ, why would the woman kill him?

If this was a killing, and there was someone he was with, I'd expect an argument that turned violent.

Like I said, I think this is less likely than voluntary departure, but not too much less.

 

[txsvicki]

Just saw NG and this case for the first time, and came here to try and find out if he had any large savings that weren't accounted for. If he only had $100,000 in savings then I'd say he had a longterm plan, and left that for his daughter, and the car for his girlfriend. From what I could tell he didn't look to be flashy, drive a very fancy vehicle, have a flashy girlfriend, or even have a home in his name. He must have been socking back money for himself and wanted to get away and live a different life. The stuff on the hard drive could have been his financial information. I even doubt that there was another woman at the time. I hope he's off enjoying his retirement and surfaces someday. Hopefully there was no suicide in another location. Could it be possible that he lost all his money in some online trading investments and just didn't want to face his daughter and girlfriend with the loss of inheritance and disappointment at not being able to travel as they had planned? My first thought was that he might be secretly gay and being an older man didn't want to even bother with explaining it to anyone.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just saw NG and this case for the first time, and came here to try and find out if he had any large savings that weren't accounted for. If he only had $100,000 in savings then I'd say he had a longterm plan, and left that for his daughter, and the car for his girlfriend.

RFG was grossing more than $100,000 a year and his second marriage ended in 2000. They owned a house; it sure looks like there should have been more. I've done several blogs on it. It has never added up.

. Could it be possible that he lost all his money in some online trading investments and just didn't want to face his daughter and girlfriend with the loss of inheritance and disappointment at not being able to travel as they had planned?

If it was in the US, there would be a record (and a big tax deduction).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As for the possibility RFG was gay (and yes, everybody seems to talk about it on the Internet today), I kind of doubt it.

RFG was twice married and living with his girlfriend. I've found references to two girlfriends between wife one and wife two. His friends indicated he wasn't, and some knew him when he was outside of the county.

Further, I'd question why it would have been a motive for him leaving. RFG had announced that he would be retiring, and not running for anything else, more than a year prior to his disappearance. He also announced that he would not be practicing law after retirement, so he would have had to worry about how being gay would effect his business.

Also, Centre County isn't the most socially conservative place in PA. Penn State is there and there is a fairly active gay community; you can be gay there and not get lynched. Obama carried the county in 2008.

Also, RFG not particularly conservative, at least socially. He was nominally Catholic, but I've never heard any suggestion that he was practicing. He was personally not too comfortable with the death penalty, to the point of not arguing the penalty phase of capital cases. You would not have had an "hypocrisy factor," if something was said publicly.

 

[Tristan]

Just curious....where did the idea that Ray was secretly gay get started?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just curious....where did the idea that Ray was secretly gay get started?

Somebody posted something, I think on a web site that was targeted to a gay audience, on it in 2005. The theory was that RFG drove a Mini, he liked antiques, the Street of Shops (SoS) was suppose to be a gay hangout, and that PEF had short hair. I'm not making this up.

On those points:

1. I've never heard of a Mini being a "gay car." I would have considered it a sports car (though it technically isn't).

2. RFG collected toys from his childhood and cameras. He had an interest in photography and the toys provided ties to his childhood.

3. When I was at the SoS, there was no sign it was a "gay hangout." There were two middle aged men that seemed to be together, rather nicely dressed, talking quietly and walking together. They were myself and District Attorney Bob Buehner! Neither one of us is gay. (Okay, I was listening to 1776 on the way there.)

4. PEF was 40 at the time, and many women wear their hair shorter in middle age (and yes, 40 is middle aged). It was definitely a woman's haircut, not tapered at the sides. RFG's first ex-wife, who is older, actually had shorter hair.

I basically think it was some author trying to find a "gay angle" to the story.

What is interesting is that in the first weekend, some of his friends thought he might have been with a woman, and a few that think it was murder think he was there with some unknown woman.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here are some things on the "gay" Mini Cooper, both in general and specific to RFG:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1397769/posts

http://www.mini2.com/forum/general-discussion/50224-mini-cooper-gay-car.html

I think it was more that RFG was not driving a pickup truck with a mounted gun rack and an NRA sticker on the bumper.

[Disclosure: I am a life member of the National Rifle Association.]

 

[Tristan]

J.J. - Thanks for the clarification.

I never got the feeling that Ray might be gay...and I have thought that about some other people who have disappeared.

This case is SO baffling!!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Over the years, I've talked with a number of people that knew RFG, some away from the office, and not on an official level. Two things that there seems to be uniform agreement on:

A. He liked women.

B. He was not corrupt.

Maybe there was something hidden, but I've seen no evidence of either, and I have been looking.

 

[littlegreycells31]

I'm sure this has already been brought up, but is it possible that he had been researching starting a new identity on his county issued computer, possibly even researching the counties websites for personal info,etc, and that this is the reason he wanted the hard drive destroyed? My gut feeling is that he just left. I really don't feel he was murdered. Too many things don't add up for that. The cigarette found in his car could have easily been from meeting someone that he was buying a fake ID/Passport from or something like that? I don't know. Maybe I've been watching crime shows too much and am too speculative! LOL Just some thoughts....

LGC :seeya:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm sure this has already been brought up, but is it possible that he had been researching starting a new identity on his county issued computer, possibly even researching the counties websites for personal info,etc, and that this is the reason he wanted the hard drive destroyed? My gut feeling is that he just left. I really don't feel he was murdered. Too many things don't add up for that. The cigarette found in his car could have easily been from meeting someone that he was buying a fake ID/Passport from or something like that? I don't know. Maybe I've been watching crime shows too much and am too speculative! LOL Just some thoughts....

It is entirely possible that RFG was using the laptop for:

A. Was moving money offshore or using another identity to move money around.

B. Making travel arrangements.

C. Establishing a new identity.

It is also entirely possible RFG was concerned about his privacy and decided to toss the drive to prevent someone else from getting his private data, e.g. his SSN or credit card numbers.

I can't call that conclusive, though it does point to him as being the person who tossed the hard drive.

I would note that the laptop did not have a wi fi connection and the connecting like was still with the case at home.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

Does anyone here know of a connection to Florida, particularly Zephyrhills?

Longshot, I know, but I was looking through photos and I saw this one and immediately thought of RG

http://http://doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase2134.html

The victim was discovered on January 24, 2010 in Zephyrhills, Pasco County, Florida.
Estimated Date of Death: 6 months to several years.
State of Remains: Skeletal.

Estimated age: 35-65 years old.
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'11" and unknown weight.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Unknown hair and eye color

 

[ThePhantom]

Well, I guess Mr. Gricar isn't going to file for his social security payments. Does anyone think he might have gone so far as to get a new fake SS#? If he did and changed his name, wow, it's going to be even harder to track him down -- especially if he went to Mexico or elsewhere outside the U.S. where probably no one would recognize him. Gay? Hmm - I guess one never knows. I've long pondered whether he met someone online which would have been another reason he wanted to destroy the hard drive. I could see him meticulously planning this out for the last year or two -- perhaps longer. Methodically setting aside money -- maybe putting it into a secret "Swiss" account? Getting the required "papers" to get a passport. He's a lawyer, he would know how to do this kind of thing. Wow. Where'd you go, Ray? C'mon, give us a hint.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Does anyone here know of a connection to Florida, particularly Zephyrhills?

Longshot, I know, but I was looking through photos and I saw this one and immediately thought of RG

http://http://doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase2134.html

The victim was discovered on January 24, 2010 in Zephyrhills, Pasco County, Florida.
Estimated Date of Death: 6 months to several years.
State of Remains: Skeletal.

Estimated age: 35-65 years old.
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'11" and unknown weight.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Unknown hair and eye color

Mr. Gricar was 6', so it probably isn't him.