PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #9

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

A few quick tidbits from someone's Twitter account. I expect the formatting will get all bollocksed up, but hopefully the gist will come through.


5h J. Mark Horgas J. Mark Horgas ‏@MarkHorgas

The detective also told me that #PennState had had many complaints about #Sandusky in the 1990's.
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5h J. Mark Horgas J. Mark Horgas ‏@MarkHorgas

I was told Ray Gricar never forced ppl to testify against their will. That's why Ray Gricar never followed through w/ 1998 #Sandusky case
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5h J. Mark Horgas J. Mark Horgas ‏@MarkHorgas

Ray Gricar never filed charges vs #Sandusky in 1998 because the victim's mother refused to testify according to my detective friend.
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5h J. Mark Horgas J. Mark Horgas ‏@MarkHorgas

BTW #Sandusky graduated #1 in his #PennState Phys Ed major. My State College Detective friend said "that guy was really weird". Gricar ...
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I think its BS. I will NEVER believe that the victim's mother refused to testify. Pfftt...more smoke and mirrors from PA.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Not directed at you quixote.

A few quick tidbits from someone's Twitter account. I expect the formatting will get all bollocksed up, but hopefully the gist will come through.


5h J. Mark Horgas J. Mark Horgas ‏@MarkHorgas

The detective also told me that #PennState had had many complaints about #Sandusky in the 1990's.
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5h J. Mark Horgas J. Mark Horgas ‏@MarkHorgas

None that anyone else claimed.

I was told Ray Gricar never forced ppl to testify against their will. That's why Ray Gricar never followed through w/ 1998 #Sandusky case
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5h J. Mark Horgas J. Mark Horgas ‏@MarkHorgas



Ray Gricar never filed charges vs #Sandusky in 1998 because the victim's mother refused to testify according to my detective friend.
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5h J. Mark Horgas J. Mark Horgas ‏@MarkHorgas

The mother reported it, so no. And, there were two victims, Victim 6 and B. K.

BTW #Sandusky graduated #1 in his #PennState Phys Ed major. My State College Detective friend said "that guy was really weird". Gricar ...
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Aloof, standoffish, reserved, "a hard guy to know," yes, but "weird" includes an awful lot.

 

[quixote]

I think the "weird" comment may have been re: Sandusky, but in the abbreviated world of Twitter, it is unclear. I also put no real credence into the other statements. I think the "tweeter" is not someone who wants to cover things up, as he talks about the possibility of the Sandusky case blowing up and shining a light on some of the parties that have escaped close scrutiny to date. That said, he has tweeted a number of things that have not come to fruition.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A new blog entry is up. http://www.centredaily.com/2013/01/21/3472588/more-musings-on-the-laptop.html

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

J. J. -why o WHY can't i read the blog

 

[PaulR]

Some comments on the blog entry:
1) Speculation is made that Gricar may have searched for terms like "depression." But we know that he searched for "how to fry a hard drive." Wouldn't we know if he also searched for "depression" - or on ways to vanish?

2) There's a statement made about how each laptop has a traceable IP address. This is incorrect. An IP address is allocated depending on where you are connecting; for instance, if your laptop is at home, you are seen as using your home's IP address. If you are at Starbucks, the IP would indicate that you were at Starbucks.

The network card on a machine does have something called a "MAC address" which is fixed, but generally that is not passed to a website. Tossing the hard drive does NOT change your MAC address.

Some sites also have tracking cookies that would persist on the same machine, but this still has limitations (removing cookies or using special plugins would disable this ability.) You can clear your cookies easily without removing your hard drive - every web browser has this built in.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J. J. -why o WHY can't i read the blog

Try a different browser.

It deals with two things.

1. The possibility that RFG tossed the drive (which is hugely strong).

2. The reason why he would have tossed the drive (which is not strong).

 

[Valen]

I saw Ray's case on Disappeared on netflix the other day and found the circumstances regarding the laptop and hard drive pretty strange. He definitely wanted to make that hard drive so that it wouldn't be possible to recover anything from it. Is it possible there was something illegal on it? Not trying to attack Ray by any means but the only reason I could think of the reasons of someone wanting to trash a hard drive on a computer that's technically owned by the place you work for was because there's something on there you don't want them to see or be able to recover. Could be the Sandusky case as well but I'd think the records/information on that case would be in more than one spot and not just on his laptop hard drive.

I'd have no idea if his disappearance is related to what was on that hard drive but either way I hope he is found safe, the circumstances are really strange.

Also I apologize if any of this is discussed or anymore is known, I've only seen the one episode of the show and am probably missing some of the information about this case.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm respectfully snipping this, because there are two separate questions.

I saw Ray's case on Disappeared on netflix the other day and found the circumstances regarding the laptop and hard drive pretty strange. He definitely wanted to make that hard drive so that it wouldn't be possible to recover anything from it. Is it possible there was something illegal on it? Not trying to attack Ray by any means but the only reason I could think of the reasons of someone wanting to trash a hard drive on a computer that's technically owned by the place you work for was because there's something on there you don't want them to see or be able to recover.

There obviously was something that he never wanted to see the light of day, but it might be jump to think it was illegal.

RFG was a very private person, and he would have known how even a wiped drive could have been recovered, just due to background. I might have been worried that, eventually, it would be thrown out and someone would find the data.

Could be the Sandusky case as well but I'd think the records/information on that case would be in more than one spot and not just on his laptop hard drive.

They would have had to have been. His involvement with the Sandusky investigation was in 1998. He didn't get the laptop until 2004.

I'd have no idea if his disappearance is related to what was on that hard drive but either way I hope he is found safe, the circumstances are really strange.

One theory that I have is that it is unrelated to his disappearance. A private RFG wanted to destroy his private data and figured, since he'd be in Lewisburg, that would be a good place to do it. He got down their early and did it; then he met someone. At least from the pattern of the known witness sightings, that is quite possible.

If it was related to his disappearance, we're probably talking suicide or walkaway.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Try a different browser.

It deals with two things.

1. The possibility that RFG tossed the drive (which is hugely strong).

2. The reason why he would have tossed the drive (which is not strong).

Downloading a new browser, now! Thanks JJ...!!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Downloading a new browser, now! Thanks JJ...!!

I have the same bloody problem.

Firefox seems to work.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

JJ, JJ, JJ---

I am sure this is not going to sound exactly the way i mean it (because you can't hear my voice) so please don't be mad at me...

First- I don't believe Mr. Gricar commited suicide, or destroyed the hard drive.

The "laptop" was borrowed. I have a borrowed laptop. The info on my laptop isn't NEARLY as important as the info that would be found on Mr. Gricar's laptop and you can bet your A## before I return it, it will be wiped clean. Over and over and over people say he is a private person..this is just logical thinking imo

I would love to know the dates/times these searches were made and would love even more for someone to prove to me that Mr. Gricar himself typed those things into a search engine. That being said-I would hate for ANYONE to look at some of the things I search for ...(blushes)-not that it means that I have done or would do something wrong-just I like to search -lol!

I wish someone -anyone would look at the date the hard drive was found -and what was going on just prior to its "miraculous recovery."

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

I have the same bloody problem.

Firefox seems to work.

Thank you. I got in with Google Chrome. :great:

I had no clue you have written so much about Mr. Gricar. I will surely be visiting your blog again tomorrow-and will be reading all I can. Thank you so much for all that you have done.

 

[PaulR]

The "laptop" was borrowed. I have a borrowed laptop. The info on my laptop isn't NEARLY as important as the info that would be found on Mr. Gricar's laptop and you can bet your A## before I return it, it will be wiped clean.

Unless you take special precautions, just the normal formatting of a hard drive is not enough to prevent the data from being recovered, especially with special forensics software. Gricar would almost certainly have known this.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, JJ, JJ---

I am sure this is not going to sound exactly the way i mean it (because you can't hear my voice) so please don't be mad at me...

First- I don't believe Mr. Gricar commited suicide, or destroyed the hard drive.

First, I think suicide is very unlikely, but that is due to the absence of a body, along with the number of searches that LE did. Not impossible, but I currently give it a 4% chance.

Second, I think he did toss the drive, but I don't think that was too unusual.

The "laptop" was borrowed. I have a borrowed laptop. The info on my laptop isn't NEARLY as important as the info that would be found on Mr. Gricar's laptop and you can bet your A## before I return it, it will be wiped clean. Over and over and over people say he is a private person..this is just logical thinking imo

One of those people was his then wife. You have to remember as well that until about Christmas 2004, he used it as his home computer,

I would love to know the dates/times these searches were made and would love even more for someone to prove to me that Mr. Gricar himself typed those things into a search engine. That being said-I would hate for ANYONE to look at some of the things I search for ...(blushes)-not that it means that I have done or would do something wrong-just I like to search -lol!

Well, I'm the same way. I am more gregarious person than RFG, but I would feel uneasy about my search history coming out (and I'm not one to download *advertiser censored*). I think it is a matter of privacy.

I can't find the article, but LE said it was in the month prior to his disappearance (he'd asked about wiping the drive up to a year before vanishing). LE has also said he did the searches, so I would assume that they could match the times. For example, if he sent an e-mail about a case at 1:00 PM, and the search was done 1:01 PM and no one else was there, it would be clear that he did the searches. It's a guess on my part, but LE has probably matched them.

I wish someone -anyone would look at the date the hard drive was found -and what was going on just prior to its "miraculous recovery."

Nothing too much in the case. His daughter had been polygraphed a few weeks before, which she passed. The drive was clearly there longer than 30 days.

There is a series on the investigation that chronicles what was happening in the case; the last cutoff was 11/1/11, so you can look at the case events. I think the references are in parts 5 and 6.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Some comments on the blog entry:
1) Speculation is made that Gricar may have searched for terms like "depression." But we know that he searched for "how to fry a hard drive." Wouldn't we know if he also searched for "depression" - or on ways to vanish?

He could have done those searches on the laptop, perhaps earlier. He could have wanted to hide those searches.

2) There's a statement made about how each laptop has a traceable IP address. This is incorrect. An IP address is allocated depending on where you are connecting; for instance, if your laptop is at home, you are seen as using your home's IP address. If you are at Starbucks, the IP would indicate that you were at Starbucks.

The site I saw said that the IP address was tied to the device. I would be interested in knowing the anonymity factors in a laptop. Can a specific laptop be traced?

The network card on a machine does have something called a "MAC address" which is fixed, but generally that is not passed to a website. Tossing the hard drive does NOT change your MAC address.

Some sites also have tracking cookies that would persist on the same machine, but this still has limitations (removing cookies or using special plugins would disable this ability.) You can clear your cookies easily without removing your hard drive - every web browser has this built in.

I'm familiar with cookies.

 

[PaulR]

He could have done those searches on the laptop, perhaps earlier. He could have wanted to hide those searches.

True, but then I think he would have hidden "how to fry a hard drive" as well, presuming that he didn't want anyone trying to figure out what happened to him.

The site I saw said that the IP address was tied to the device. I would be interested in knowing the anonymity factors in a laptop. Can a specific laptop be traced?

The short answer is - that depends. If the laptop (or any computer) has some kind of LoJack-like software that "phones home" whenever it connects to the internet, then it can be tracked from the IP address. This isn't fullproof - not all IP addresses can be tied to a specific geographical location, and there are ways of obfuscating the IP address to make it very difficult to track.

There are some other methods but I'm not really at liberty to discuss. Suffice to say that the IP address in and of itself does not allow you to track a device.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

True, but then I think he would have hidden "how to fry a hard drive" as well, presuming that he didn't want anyone trying to figure out what happened to him.

Well, since the searches do fit with multiple scenarios, it doesn't support a single scenario.

The short answer is - that depends. If the laptop (or any computer) has some kind of LoJack-like software that "phones home" whenever it connects to the internet, then it can be tracked from the IP address. This isn't fullproof - not all IP addresses can be tied to a specific geographical location, and there are ways of obfuscating the IP address to make it very difficult to track.

There are some other methods but I'm not really at liberty to discuss. Suffice to say that the IP address in and of itself does not allow you to track a device.

Well, would RFG have known that. He was not particularly computer savvy. He could have looked at the same location that I looked at and thought that the IP address was tied to the device.

For me, if I wanted to have an Internet presence that was not tied to me, at a different location, I wouldn't use the same computer.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Unless you take special precautions, just the normal formatting of a hard drive is not enough to prevent the data from being recovered, especially with special forensics software. Gricar would almost certainly have known this.

Thanks, PaulR! I have taken a course in computer forensics, and I agree that Mr. Gricar "should have" known this. But there are some who would say he wasn't a computer person.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

First, I think suicide is very unlikely, but that is due to the absence of a body, along with the number of searches that LE did. Not impossible, but I currently give it a 4% chance.

Second, I think he did toss the drive, but I don't think that was too unusual.



One of those people was his then wife. You have to remember as well that until about Christmas 2004, he used it as his home computer,



Well, I'm the same way. I am more gregarious person than RFG, but I would feel uneasy about my search history coming out (and I'm not one to download *advertiser censored*). I think it is a matter of privacy.

I can't find the article, but LE said it was in the month prior to his disappearance (he'd asked about wiping the drive up to a year before vanishing). LE has also said he did the searches, so I would assume that they could match the times. For example, if he sent an e-mail about a case at 1:00 PM, and the search was done 1:01 PM and no one else was there, it would be clear that he did the searches. It's a guess on my part, but LE has probably matched them.



Nothing too much in the case. His daughter had been polygraphed a few weeks before, which she passed. The drive was clearly there longer than 30 days.

There is a series on the investigation that chronicles what was happening in the case; the last cutoff was 11/1/11, so you can look at the case events. I think the references are in parts 5 and 6.

Thanks for all of you help. I will be spending a lot of time reading the blog. You have taken so much time writing it, I am both thankful and amazed!

IF the computer was used as a home computer-I believe that anyone that entered that home would have had the ability to use it, and make the searches. I also believe that there were those in his office that could and DID use his computer. The IMPORTANT thing to know is what was searched the night he vanished on those computers. The calls made from his cell phone, and office. And just what happened at home. Those are the things we probably will never know the real answers to.

I keep thinking this was a well thought out plan either for Mr. Gricar to start a new life, or for someone to murder him. I believe he was murdered. I have little faith in LE in Centre County, I mean -look how long it took to arrest Jer.