PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[Ozoner]

No evidence that RFG did continue to investigates.

Agree. This Sandusky drivel is pure nonsense.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

well if he wanted to get him what was stopping him? Obviously Sandusky was going to town for years on end..

Not too much.

RFG could have:

A. Prosecuted, and hoped other victims would come forward.

B. Contacted the State AG's Office, claiming he lacked the resources for an investigation. The Centre County DA's Office actually did lack the resources to investigate.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Agree. This Sandusky drivel is pure nonsense.

Well, so far an any rate.

First, and I think this pointed out by Jana when it happen, why would anyone at PSU want to kill RFG for not prosecuting Sandusky. Why kill him, and leave all the witnesses around, not to mention leaving the files intact at PSU.

Second, if RFG suddenly decided after 7 years to prosecute, how would anybody other then RFG know where all the information was. If he was conducting an investigation of Sandusky, on his own, how would anyone else where he had his information and research.

This second point is overlooked a lot. Suppose RFG really was trying to investigate Sandusky. He's gathered evidence. It is possible that he had it on the laptop (that he wanted to destroy), but he could have made copies.

RFG had access to two other computers. He could have copied it to either one, or both, of them. According to RK, RFG kept a bunch of personal stuff in his desk, e.g. both sets of divorce papers and a letter of reference for Barbara Petito from the 1990's. Why didn't he have a hard copy of the Sandusky file there? Why didn't he have a hard copy at home?

 

[Ozoner]

Well, so far an any rate.

First, and I think this pointed out by Jana when it happen, why would anyone at PSU want to kill RFG for not prosecuting Sandusky. Why kill him, and leave all the witnesses around, not to mention leaving the files intact at PSU.

Second, if RFG suddenly decided after 7 years to prosecute, how would anybody other then RFG know where all the information was. If he was conducting an investigation of Sandusky, on his own, how would anyone else where he had his information and research.

This second point is overlooked a lot. Suppose RFG really was trying to investigate Sandusky. He's gathered evidence. It is possible that he had it on the laptop (that he wanted to destroy), but he could have made copies.

RFG had access to two other computers. He could have copied it to either one, or both, of them. According to RK, RFG kept a bunch of personal stuff in his desk, e.g. both sets of divorce papers and a letter of reference for Barbara Petito from the 1990's. Why didn't he have a hard copy of the Sandusky file there? Why didn't he have a hard copy at home?

Gricar prosecuted James Cruz, who is probably a serial killer. Sandusky's case was sort of ho-hum by comparison. I'm sure Ray had other major cases as well.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Gricar prosecuted James Cruz, who is probably a serial killer. Sandusky's case was sort of ho-hum by comparison. I'm sure Ray had other major cases as well.

Because of his position in the community, Sandusky was more than "ho-hum."

Cruz, IIRC was a truck driver unknown to anyone in Centre County. Sandusky was a major part of an institution that had a direct link with half the voting age population in the county.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Former DA Robert Buehner, who was long active in the Gricar case, has died. He was 69. Remembering the life of Robert W. Buehner Jr.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Former DA Robert Buehner, who was long active in the Gricar case, has died. He was 69. Remembering the life of Robert W. Buehner Jr.

That's very sad. I was just coming back to this case. The timing is very interesting,the destroying the laptop too,and the mystery woman he was seen with. Is it a stretch to think there could an Epstein Connection? Ray Gricar mystery: 2012 story examines Gricar’s fiercely private life, ladies’ man reputation.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Epstein being involved in this is less likely than aliens being involved in this.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Epstein being involved in this is less likely than aliens being involved in this.

Well who would have thought there would have been all the connections there are so far? All the way up to George "Nobody knows who Epstein Is" Stephanopoulos burying the story. MOO

 

[minazoe]

That's very sad. I was just coming back to this case. The timing is very interesting,the destroying the laptop too,and the mystery woman he was seen with. Is it a stretch to think there could an Epstein Connection? Ray Gricar mystery: 2012 story examines Gricar’s fiercely private life, ladies’ man reputation.

okay this article echos many of my thoughts about the mystery woman and the investigation. thank you for sharing, I find this fascinating.

 

[minazoe]

Well who would have thought there would have been all the connections there are so far? All the way up to George "Nobody knows who Epstein Is" Stephanopoulos burying the story. MOO

I know this is going to sound whack, but I met Jeffrey Epstein at a restaurant in Palm Beach in the 2000's. My friend and I were sitting in an empty bar waiting for our reservation next-door at Taboo...and he came over and was super smarmy and struck me a s a desperate middle aged creeper sex addict trying to impress others with stories about his famous relationships with iconic people..I just can't see how he would connect up with Ray in his hovel...they wouldn't have too much common ground.

but I take all possibilities seriously, after all if I could meet Jeffrey Epstein, anyone could.
;0).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I absolutely do not discount the possibility of RFG being with a women on 4/15/05, for some sort of amorous reasons. A relationship with Epstein is well beyond anything realist, as minazoe noted. It would have had to have been more than a casual meeting by happenstance.

 

[minazoe]

well it was a good excuse to tell my JE story!!! lolz.. ;0)

 

[Ozoner]

The longer I reflect on this case, the more I think it was a suicide. There are only two things that point away from suicide. One is the presence of cigarette ashes in Ray's car, but that could be a red herring. Maybe a nosy person noticed the car parked there all night—which would have been unusual given the location—and decided to peek inside while smoking a cigarette.

The other thing that points away from suicide is the fact that Ray's body wasn't found. The simplest explanation is that Ray's body was missed in the searches. Underwater searches are not foolproof.

It's possible that Ray walked some distance before taking his own life in a secluded area and is simply in an area that hasn't been searched. He may have even taken pains to conceal himself.

For a long time I vacillated among several different scenarios, but I've been leaning towards suicide for a while now.

Unfortunately, the other scenarios can't be ruled out with absolute certainty, but like the man said when he drove his expensive German sedan into a tree, "That's the way the Mercedes Benz."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The windows to the Mini Cooper were closed and the car locked. While it is remotely possible that whomever got the ash and scent of smoke in the Mini was not related to the disappearance, it had to get in there when the car was open.

 

[Ozoner]

The windows to the Mini Cooper were closed and the car locked. While it is remotely possible that whomever got the ash and scent of smoke in the Mini was not related to the disappearance, it had to get in there when the car was open.

It's more than remotely possible. If someone peeked into the car out of curiosity, it's likely that the same person locked the doors—which is done effortlessly and unconsciously by pushing a button, which most people do out of force of habit.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It's more than remotely possible. If someone peeked into the car out of curiosity, it's likely that the same person locked the doors—which is done effortlessly and unconsciously by pushing a button, which most people do out of force of habit.

From the outside?

RFG would have had to left the Mini unlocked.

 

[Ozoner]

From the outside?

RFG would have had to left the Mini unlocked.

Agreed. He probably did leave it unlocked.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Agreed. He probably did leave it unlocked.

I would have no reason to believe he would leave the passenger side unlocked.

 

[Ozoner]

I would have no reason to believe he would leave the passenger side unlocked.

On most modern cars, all of the doors are locked and unlocked with a single button. The last car I owned where the doors were locked and unlocked individually was a 1980s model.

I also wouldn't assume that a snooping person would have entered on the passenger side just because the ashes were over there. He could've entered on the driver's side and leaned over the passenger seat in order to access the glove compartment. (If I were to snoop in a suspicious vehicle, the first thing I would do would be to look in the glove compartment to see whether there were any papers listing the owner's name.)