Pamela Long Wiggins In-Depth Discussion

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UnderDog said:
Pam Wiggins was on her way to being an elite, but the economy caught up with her (the bubble burst). In the 90's, a small percentage survived the dot.com bubble, but there were a lot of temporary multi-millionaires with shady backgrounds and undoubtedly some murders were the result. But let's just focus on this odd, hasty marriage to a man that, by all indications, is as generic as a grocery store checker. It's the marriage itself that is pivotal. LPG and his wife were witnesses and the marriage seems more like a business contract, considering the transfer of properties due for foreclosure. The man hasn't been charged, yet he knew crucial details in the "plan". When his "cooperation" was reported, it was almost an afterthought in most articles. There was absolutely no further investigation according to reporters by LE. And reporters haven't touched this "odd" absence of suspicion or inquiry by LE. Any thoughts?
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Bolded by me.

Perhaps by some standards, but I beg to differ on her being on her way to "elite" status, it takes more than just being a multi-millionaire to get into the position that her former or possibly still married to hubby was insinuating.

I agree about the most recent marriage being a sham to unload property. I stand by what I stated earlier, she didn't have a clue as to what she was doing, if she had of, she would've pulled it off, as many others have done.

There's no drama in the current hubby, as you said, "generic as a grocery store checker", he won't bring in the ratings for the media to care about him, unlike the previous hubby that is claiming to still be married to her.

As far as LE, the sheriff seemed very open and honest, the state atty backed up the sheriff, then whamo, get some arrests and he changes his tune, while the sheriff is still sticking to the original and throwing more comparisons out, while appearing to be busting at the seams to let it all spill out. I'm sorry, he may very well be a good atty and just isn't good at dealing with the media, but I can't get over how he abruptly started down playing the statements made by the sheriff. Now the sheriff has been "gagged" and one of the last reports I remember hearing from the state atty, he was back to waffling with the media.

This has been like watching 2 kids on a teeter-totter, up, down, up, down.

One thing is for sure, this is such a muddled up mess, that all potential jurors that have heard about the case, will be so dang confused by the details that I will actually pity both sides and the judge during the selection process.
 
UnderDog said:
She didn't have tons of debt until the ARMs kicked in and the market went flat. It was as early as 2006 in "hot" markets that the demand slowed. But yes, by 2009 she was $2.2 million in debt with a limited market for all of her assets, including the Rolls and the yacht.
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She always had tons of debt. The slowdown did not increase her debt it lowered the ability to cash in the paper assets at an amount higher than the amount owed.
Calling her a rich person, is like going to the race track, betting on a horse at big odds , having your horse in the lead and ending up losing at the end of the race, Can you say " well I was rich for a while"? In order to be rich you have to be smart enough to buy at the right price and sell before the turnaround to end up with a net worth.
I know a lady who's husband manages a fast food resturant.
They started buying condos to flip about 4 years ago. They had 15 or more half million condos. They tried to sell them for a huge profit and because they were so greedy never moved one. Before it was all over they removed the furniture from the condos to sell. Everything was foreclosed and they lost everything. Were they ever rich? I say no. They were little people that tried to jump on the housing boom and did not know enough to get out before the downturn. In any boom the best indication of the end of the boom, is when the little people jump in. About 3 years ago I was at dinner with a very wealthy friend when our waiter started giving us stock market advice. I told my buddy, when you waiter starts giving you financial advice, it's time to get out. The DOW was at 14,000.
The next day I called my broker and sold all of the stock in my account. I wuld like to brag, but even the "safe place" I put my money went down also, so I still lost a lt of money. LOL
 
UnderDog said:
I'm pretty sure the Wiggins name is traced back to Florida "pioneers", so there are some high profile Wiggins in Florida. When I was trying to find ANYTHING on PLW's current husband, there were a lot of references to ancestry. But actually finding anything of current interest was discouraging. One guest on HLN brought up the "witness protection program" in reference to someone else, but I'm telling ya, it's like her husband didn't exist until she married him. I can't even figure out what he does for a living.
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For more information about PLW's current husband, do a search here:

http://www.escambiaclerk.com/xml/xml_web_1a.asp

You will find plenty of stuff from 1987-2007 including a couple of felonys. Since he is not (yet?) a suspect, I do not know how much detail I am allowed to give, but I did find some info. You can follow that link to get a good idea. PS, I do not believe he is from Florida Pioneers. I believe he moved moved to Florida from the north.
 
Went over to Magnolia Mall earlier today. There was no red van in the parking lot and I couldn't see a way to get into a back entrance. Also looked for, but didn't see any outside security cameras.

The parking lot is right on Hwy. 98 and behind it is a residential area (though there is a fence separating the parking lot from the house behind it).

Right across the street of the parking lot (on the same side of 98) is the Blake, which is a relatively large assisted living facility (http://www.blakeliving.com). I don't want to make a generalization about seniors, but many I know are "inquisitive."

It has been reported that the 2 vans were seen at Magnolia the night of the murders supposedly doing the transfer of the safe and weapons (sorry, don't have the link handy).

Considering the above, WTH would they pick this spot for the transfer??
 
To See the Magnolia Antique Mall for yourself, go to:

http://maps.google.com

Enter:
4436 Gulf Breeze Pkwy, pensacola (not the real address, but this is where Google has it located)

Click "Street View"

And on the left corner of the picture, turn the compass so that the "N" is on the top.

Is that a red mini-van I see in the parking lot????
 
Thank you, Gene, this is awesome! And, you can see The Blake on the right side of the pic.

I really think THAT red minivan belongs to the guy that works there. At least, it looks like the same one when I was there Sunday.

JMHO.
 
daisy7 said:
Thank you, Gene, this is awesome! And, you can see The Blake on the right side of the pic.

I really think THAT red minivan belongs to the guy that works there. At least, it looks like the same one when I was there Sunday.

JMHO.
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Daisy: Yes, I do see the Blake. Maybe that is an old pic, but it looks like it is under construction and the area across from the Mall appears to be empty. Also, it is across the street from Hickory Shores Road and even if it is now inhabited, I see several trees which may obscure the view of the Mall parking lot.

While Gulf Breeze Pkwy does appear to be a busy road, directly across Gulf Breeze Pkwy from the Mall is a vacant lot.

I guess you could park two cars near to each other in such a way that you can transfer stuff without people easily seeing what you are doing. Particularly if was after dark. JMO

Pretty interesting to take a virtual tour of the "crime scene"
 
Thanks Gene and Daisy! The Antique Mall is nothing like I expected it to be.
 
Gene said:
Daisy: Yes, I do see the Blake. Maybe that is an old pic, but it looks like it is under construction and the area across from the Mall appears to be empty. Also, it is across the street from Hickory Shores Road and even if it is now inhabited, I see several trees which may obscure the view of the Mall parking lot.

While Gulf Breeze Pkwy does appear to be a busy road, directly across Gulf Breeze Pkwy from the Mall is a vacant lot.

I guess you could park two cars near to each other in such a way that you can transfer stuff without people easily seeing what you are doing. Particularly if was after dark. JMO

Pretty interesting to take a virtual tour of the "crime scene"
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The Blake has been open for ~ 1 year. 98 is definitely a busy road, it's the main Hwy. in GB with 2 lanes on each side and a small median in the middle. At this time of night, there would be many people commuting from P'Cola to homes in Midway and Navarre. I don't believe the lot across from 98 would have a good view of the Magnolia parking lot, only cuz 98 would be so busy.

Cars going down 98 (heading west) would definitely see the vans, if the vans had their lights on and the drivers happened to notice. Cars going east probably wouldn't notice.

The google map is pretty much identical to what it is today.

(note to self: you really gotta go get a new memory card for your camera!!:)

As always, JMHO.

ETA: I believe the speed limit on 98 is 45mph, but the norm is 60mph.
 
daisy7 said:
The Blake has been open for ~ 1 year. 98 is definitely a busy road, it's the main Hwy. in GB with 2 lanes on each side and a small median in the middle. At this time of night, there would be many people commuting from P'Cola to homes in Midway and Navarre. I don't believe the lot across from 98 would have a good view of the Magnolia parking lot, only cuz 98 would be so busy.

Cars going down 98 (heading west) would definitely see the vans, if the vans had their lights on and the drivers happened to notice. Cars going east probably wouldn't notice.

The google map is pretty much identical to what it is today.

(note to self: you really gotta go get a new memory card for your camera!!:)

As always, JMHO.

ETA: I believe the speed limit on 98 is 45mph, but the norm is 60mph.
Click to expand...

ETA#2 60 mph or higher is MY norm:)
 
Found another really cool way to see the Antique Mall and other locations, this time from a Bird's Eye View:

Go to: http://www.bing.com/maps/

Enter: Gulf Breeze Pkwy and hickory shores road pensacola florida

Click: Bird's Eye

The photo you see is old, because where the Blake is is empty. But you can move the pic around and see all of the nearby businesses, the road, the entrance to the parking. Pretty neat!

For an interesting view of the other "crime scene", enter this address into Bing Maps:

9675 Mobile Highway, Pensacola, FL 32526

Click: "Bird's Eye". You can move the map around, magnify and click south on the compass to get a southern view. Again, very interesting...
 
This is a thought that has been creeping into my thought processes. It's just a total guess....

There's plenty of facts that lead to speculation that Pam Wiggens was far more involved than "after the fact." She's been described as a "friend" to LP Jr. and was a witness at his wedding. She let LP Jr. use her car presumebably to transfer guns and the safe. It's been said that he had access to "her house." The whole "gang" met at her antique mall after the crime at some point. At some point, the safe and guns were found buried in her house. All of this, presumably orchestrated by LP Jr....

This lot included all men younger than her. What's a 47 year old woman doing all these "favors" and procuring a relationship with this group who are clearly not necessarily one of her "peers..." Particularly.... LP Jr.....

I dunno.... my hinky meter is going off in a different direction.

I'm wondering if there was or is sometime of romantic relationship between Pam Wiggens and LP Jr. Or even one of the other suspects. :waitasec:

Money is always a motivating factor, but what she did seems to be motivated by more than just money. She apparently willingly went along with this whole crime...and it really looks like she went above and beyond for LP Jr. in particular, doesn't it?

I think there is more to this "friendship" between her and LP Jr. or another suspect than we are being led to believe. Quite frankly, she reminds more of a cougar/ curb monkey, than a sophisticated "crime - maven" hungry for cash.

Let's not forget - LP Jr. married the exwife of one of his "friends" (Fausti). It would not be such a stretch to consider that LP Jr. (or one of the suspects) seduced Pam or vice versa into letting her be more 'involved' - perhaps more under the sheets, then just under the table. KWIM?



Just a thought. Just a speculation.
 
LaceSprocket said:
This is a thought that has been creeping into my thought processes. It's just a total guess....

There's plenty of facts that lead to speculation that Pam Wiggens was far more involved than "after the fact." She's been described as a "friend" to LP Jr. and was a witness at his wedding. She let LP Jr. use her car presumebably to transfer guns and the safe. It's been said that he had access to "her house." The whole "gang" met at her antique mall after the crime at some point. At some point, the safe and guns were found buried in her house. All of this, presumably orchestrated by LP Jr....

This lot included all men younger than her. What's a 47 year old woman doing all these "favors" and procuring a relationship with this group who are clearly not necessarily one of her "peers..." Particularly.... LP Jr.....

I dunno.... my hinky meter is going off in a different direction.

I'm wondering if there was or is sometime of romantic relationship between Pam Wiggens and LP Jr. Or even one of the other suspects. :waitasec:

Money is always a motivating factor, but what she did seems to be motivated by more than just money. She apparently willingly went along with this whole crime...and it really looks like she went above and beyond for LP Jr. in particular, doesn't it?

I think there is more to this "friendship" between her and LP Jr. or another suspect than we are being led to believe. Quite frankly, she reminds more of a cougar/ curb monkey, than a sophisticated "crime - maven" hungry for cash.

Let's not forget - LP Jr. married the exwife of one of his "friends" (Fausti). It would not be such a stretch to consider that LP Jr. (or one of the suspects) seduced Pam or vice versa into letting her be more 'involved' - perhaps more under the sheets, then just under the table. KWIM?



Just a thought. Just a speculation.
Click to expand...

possibly drug supplier? Many of the people we are looking into end up associated with drugs.........one person in particular who is connected to both these people (LPG & PLW) has a history pertaining to drugs, but his name isn't being talked about and we can't post it. I'm sure if I'm checking him out that LE has already checked him out, too. But, then there is that "silence" issue.

Gene - the 2nd bird's eye crime scene is telling. I didn't realize that the house is so isolated. And another thing (TOTALLY OT) which is probably a weird question, but something I am wondering about----- there doesn't appear to be a lot of grass around the homes. Is that because it is relatively new at the time the view was originated? I remember in the security video, it looked like it had grass. That's a weird site for a midwesterner!

Thanks for the links - they are interesting.
 
who knew? said:
Gene - the 2nd bird's eye crime scene is telling. I didn't realize that the house is so isolated. And another thing (TOTALLY OT) which is probably a weird question, but something I am wondering about----- there doesn't appear to be a lot of grass around the homes. Is that because it is relatively new at the time the view was originated? I remember in the security video, it looked like it had grass. That's a weird site for a midwesterner!

Thanks for the links - they are interesting.
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Baby: YES! It is very isolated. But in that photo, you can see the second house on the property, at the end of the drive.

On the otherhand, you would think that if a car went down that drive, that residents of both properties would have been alerted. As you can see, there is NO reason for a vehicle to be driving down that street unless they were they were coming to one of the residence.

Where did the Ninjas on foot come from? Silcox lane?
 
Pcola Hog said:
I say the LE is feeding us BS on why PLW is out on such a low bond (LE probably have a good reason why).

LE stated PLW husband told them where the safe was located, the day after PLW was arrested.
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I posted on one of the closed threads an interview that Sheriff Morgan did with Wolf Blitzer in which he was asked why the bond was so low...

Morgan stated that the District Attorney's office sets the bond amounts baased on the crime for which they are arrested. He made it clear that the county did not pick that bond amount - they had no choice but to use the DA's "guidelines."

He did not come out and say this, but I got the feeling from Morgan that HE and the county were not happy about such a low bond, but their hands were tied because she was arrested as an accessory after the fact... The 10K bond fit within the DA's guidelines... no choice but to let her walk away on 10K bond...

This interview happened after Morgan stated in an earlier press conference that Pam Wiggens was not a threat. But that was during a press conference the Eggins the Prosecutor breathing down his neck.

I'm sure if Morgan could, he'd give his real thoughts about such a low bond for an obvious much bigger player in this crime.

Wouldn't be nice to talk to Morgan "off the record." I'd love to know what he thinks and/or really knows...
 
I had originally thought that PWL had no major criminal record. However, according to this article, she does indeed have a criminal record:

According to public records consistent with information provided by Morgan, Wiggins is a 47-year-old Georgia woman who was charged with felony grand theft in 1988. That charge was dropped to a misdemeanor to which she pleaded guilty

http://abcnews.go.com/story?id=8086274
 
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