Paris - Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral, Apr 2019

[FrostOwl]

There were a large church fire in Stockholm in 1990, at Katarina church, Katarinabranden 1990 – Wikipedia , and the reason for the fire was some faulty electrical wiring in one of the large church lamps. The church was next door to a fire house, but couldn't be saved, only the outer walls were left the next morning. The church was rebuilt, like it had been after a fire in 1723, it took five years and it was reaugurated in 1995. It is possible to find out where, and how, a fire started, and for a church to be rebuilt again (and again). The new interior is not exactly as the old one, as it was not possible to recreate it, but much of the material used have been done in the same techniques and similar materials as was used when the church was built for the first time in the later half of the 1600s. Katarina Church - Wikipedia

Notre Dame is not only a wonderful religious monument, it is also a statement of what man can build, in a time when all had to be done by human power (with some help from animals), from cutting the trees and the stone for the building, to move those things to Paris, and then finally erect the church. Thankfully much of the original marvels in the church was saved, such as most of the glass windows and statues, so it will not be impossible to make Notre Dame as magnificent as it once was. (In my opinion , skip the spire, it was a relatively new addition, the roof will look better without it.)

 

[otto]

There were a large church fire in Stockholm in 1990, at Katarina church, Katarinabranden 1990 – Wikipedia , and the reason for the fire was some faulty electrical wiring in one of the large church lamps. The church was next door to a fire house, but couldn't be saved, only the outer walls were left the next morning. The church was rebuilt, like it had been after a fire in 1723, it took five years and it was reaugurated in 1995. It is possible to find out where, and how, a fire started, and for a church to be rebuilt again (and again). The new interior is not exactly as the old one, as it was not possible to recreate it, but much of the material used have been done in the same techniques and similar materials as was used when the church was built for the first time in the later half of the 1600s. Katarina Church - Wikipedia

Notre Dame is not only a wonderful religious monument, it is also a statement of what man can build, in a time when all had to be done by human power (with some help from animals), from cutting the trees and the stone for the building, to move those things to Paris, and then finally erect the church. Thankfully much of the original marvels in the church was saved, such as most of the glass windows and statues, so it will not be impossible to make Notre Dame as magnificent as it once was. (In my opinion , skip the spire, it was a relatively new addition, the roof will look better without it.)

I was thinking the same thing about the spire. It was the newest element, it needed repairs, and attempts to make those repairs resulted in this fire. It looked out of place and I think the cathedral would be better without it.

 

[otto]

Big TV screens are being added outside churches in Paris to accommodate people who don't fit in the churches.

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 17, 2019
Father Brice de Malherbe, chaplain of Notre Dame, on where Easter celebrations will take place after Notre Dame's fire.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

If you aren't Catholic, you might not understand that Great Lent, for faithful Catholics, is a journey that you "travel" with other parishioners (your congregation or Catholic friends) to become more like Jesus Christ (holy and peaceful). Lent is a time where you act on plans on how to do this. Increasing fasting to force your mind to control your body's physical desires, increasing your alms to the needy, and increasing your prayers is a labor, a holy labor. This labor is more successful and can have more permanent results when you work on it with the support of your parish friends and parish community. I feel very sad for the parishioners of Notre Dame as their flock is scattered at the conclusion of their holy labor, Great Lent. I'm heartened that enlightened Catholic officials in this parish are taking measures to let this parish worship together.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I used to attend church in a historic landmark church. It was amazing that so many people thought this church was just a historic landmark when we had a very active, closely-knit parish, an active parish council, active hospital and shut-in ministries, and a huge food pantry that fed almost a 1,000 homeless or indigent people every week . Our efforts to feed the poor were quadruple the efforts of other churches and agencies in the city, yet people though we were only a historic stone building. The parish facilities were used and are still used to provide tens of thousands of Meals on Wheels lunches and offer almost free meeting spaces for countless community organizations including Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous and the Boy Scouts.

Notre Dame Cathedral was also a working parish. They had a parish council, bible studies, and book clubs supporting the Faith for every age. They likely had many other Christian ministries, but I don't speak or read French and can't quickly interpret their websites. The thought that some would love to turn Notre Dame Cathedral into a secular, historic monument is frightening.

 

[worldwatcher]

If you aren't Catholic, you might not understand that Great Lent, for faithful Catholics, is a journey that you "travel" with other parishioners (your congregation or Catholic friends) to become more like Jesus Christ (holy and peaceful). Lent is a time where you act on plans on how to do this. Increasing fasting to force your mind to control your body's physical desires, increasing your alms to the needy, and increasing your prayers is a labor, a holy labor. This labor is more successful and can have more permanent results when you work on it with the support of your parish friends and parish community. I feel very sad for the parishioners of Notre Dame as their flock is scattered at the conclusion of their holy labor, Great Lent. I'm heartened that enlightened Catholic officials in this parish are taking measures to let this parish worship together.

I am raised Catholic,but I don't share that point of view,am not only sorry for this burned down tower of ancient history,but also for the birds (kestrels}
,bats and so many feathered species... this is pure horror.
Their breeding season just begun...I do hope, we realise ,it is NOT only from a human lost but animals as well!!!

 

[PommyMommy]

Notre Dame beekeeper waits to learn fate of his 18,000 bees
The beekeeper of Notre Dame Cathedral is in limbo waiting to hear the fate of his 18,000 bees after the devastating fire that tore through the church.

Beekeeper of Notre Dame Cathedral Nicolas Geant. Courtesy Nicolas Geant

[...]

More details as to the extent of the damage inside the cathedral's magnificent stone walls trickled out, with firefighters warning that there is still a real risk that the building might collapse.

At least 60 fire personnel are currently onsite and monitoring for any "hot spots" that could weaken the already ravaged structure, Lt. Col. Gabriel Plus told reporters at a press conference Wednesday.

[...]

The bee-enthusiast said it had always been his dream to keep bees on the roof of “the most beautiful church in the world” and in 2012 that dream came true.

“There is a historic relationship between bees and the church, for a long time they used the wax from the bees to make the candles,” he explained.

[...]

The beekeeper is not the only person connected to Notre Dame who is struggling to move on after the fire destroyed a piece of their life.

Olivier De Châlus, the chief tour guide at the cathedral, struggled Wednesday to look at the wreckage without welling up.

[...]

Châlus, who is also working on a doctorate on the medieval construction of Notre Dame, said that for seven hours, he could not tear his eyes away from the burning cathedral. The next day, it took him four hours to muster the courage to walk through the doors and see the damage.

[...]

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Notre Dame beekeeper waits to learn fate of his 18,000 bees
The beekeeper of Notre Dame Cathedral is in limbo waiting to hear the fate of his 18,000 bees after the devastating fire that tore through the church.

Beekeeper of Notre Dame Cathedral Nicolas Geant. Courtesy Nicolas Geant

[...]

More details as to the extent of the damage inside the cathedral's magnificent stone walls trickled out, with firefighters warning that there is still a real risk that the building might collapse.

At least 60 fire personnel are currently onsite and monitoring for any "hot spots" that could weaken the already ravaged structure, Lt. Col. Gabriel Plus told reporters at a press conference Wednesday.

[...]

The bee-enthusiast said it had always been his dream to keep bees on the roof of “the most beautiful church in the world” and in 2012 that dream came true.

“There is a historic relationship between bees and the church, for a long time they used the wax from the bees to make the candles,” he explained.

[...]

The beekeeper is not the only person connected to Notre Dame who is struggling to move on after the fire destroyed a piece of their life.

Olivier De Châlus, the chief tour guide at the cathedral, struggled Wednesday to look at the wreckage without welling up.

[...]

Châlus, who is also working on a doctorate on the medieval construction of Notre Dame, said that for seven hours, he could not tear his eyes away from the burning cathedral. The next day, it took him four hours to muster the courage to walk through the doors and see the damage.

[...]

I wonder how many people will be losing their employment?

It's interesting that they are letting people that are associated with the church to get that close to the entrance.

"On walking through the front doors of the cathedral, Châlus said he felt the wind rush up against his back, down the cathedral and through the hole in the roof. “It was like the wind of ruins,” he said."

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I will pray the Notre Dame Cathedral bees are healthy and the walls don't collapse. I've burned my daughter's beeswax baptismal candle as a prayer before God every Easter Sunday in my home for over two decades. Beeswax candles burn much slower than petroleum products.

 

[Isabelle]

Crazy idea perhaps, but thinking the ashes should be collected and enclosed in wearable containers and sold to help raise funds for the church.
It may even be soothing for some...imo.

I would pay pretty good $ for that. I studied Art History decades ago that started with earliest art and ended with the Gothic period, so it included Notre Dame Cathedral. Having the background of the art history class and visiting the cathedral was amazing. It was a very emotional experience to be there and realize how much work was done by so many generations of families. It was the life work for those people. Hard to explain.

 

[Inthedetails]

Meanwhile on 5th Avenue in NYC:

"A New Jersey man was busted Wednesday night after walking into St. Patrick’s Cathedral with two full gasoline cans, according to law enforcement sources."

https://nypost.com/2019/04/17/man-arrested-after-walking-into-st-patricks-cathedral-with-gas-cans/

 

[Inthedetails]

Meanwhile on 5th Avenue in NYC:

"A New Jersey man was busted Wednesday night after walking into St. Patrick’s Cathedral with two full gasoline cans, according to law enforcement sources."

https://nypost.com/2019/04/17/man-arrested-after-walking-into-st-patricks-cathedral-with-gas-cans/

Man who brought gas cans and lighters to St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC has named.

WS thread:
NYC - man brought gas cans to St. Patrick's Cathedral 17 Apr 2019

Edited to make correction: the man has been named in MSM but not arrested as of now

 

[Inthedetails]

Disney pledged donation to help rebuild the Cathedral.

Walt Disney Company on Twitter

 

[Elley Mae]

It is extremely offensive to make false insinuations, or attempt to put blame where there is no evidence to support it. It's quite possible that investigators, fire fighters, workers and/or others at the scene had enough preliminary information to make an educated guess how the fire started.

The French press is clearly doing their best to prevent this fire from becoming a political incident and creating unnecessary turmoil. I applaud them for it.

Extremely offensive?

When they declared it an accident while it was still burned, the rush to claim accident was/is a joke.

 

[PommyMommy]

APR 18, 2019
Time-lapse shots of Notre-Dame spire may yield clues on blaze - Reuters
A time lapse camera installed just hours before Monday’s devastating blaze at Notre-Dame de Paris may contain vital clues as to what caused the inferno, a French scaffolding company working at the cathedral said on Thursday.

[...]

Footage from the camera, which was placed on the northern belltower and is now in the hands of investigators, shows the first smoke coming out of the spire’s base, Marc Eskenazi, a representative for Europe Echafaudage, told Reuters.

“Shots were taken every 10 minutes starting from Monday at 2 p.m.,” Eskenazi said. “Smoke can be seen on these images. It starts on the south side,” he said.

[...]

So far the authorities have said the fire appears accidental, although they have not ruled out arson. Police sources say an electrical fault is one possibility.

[...]

Investigators have been able to access some areas of Notre-Dame, including its two bell towers, though parts of the historic nave remained too dangerous to enter more than 72 hours after the fire.

[...]

Dupuy, who was involved in work to Notre-Dame in 2013, said safety regulations were very strict at the centuries-old site, with a focus on fire prevention. All extension chords had to be unplugged every night and smoking was not allowed anywhere.

The scaffolders started leaving work at 5:20 p.m. on Monday evening and by 5:50 p.m. - half an hour before the first alarm sounded - all were gone, Eskenazi said.

“The procedure says that at the end of the day, electricity on the site is turned off. So we turn off the lifts and the scaffolding’s lights, and we hand over the keys to the sacristy’s concierge,” he said.

“That’s exactly what the workers did. They followed the procedure, and it was of course duly noted in the registers at the sacristy.”

[...]

The outside scaffolding had no sprinkler system, but was equipped with movement detectors which did not go off, Eskenazi said. The alarms that activated were the cathedral’s own, he added. That may also yield clues as to where the fire started.

[...]

André Finot, Notre-Dame’s spokesman said, there were “smoke detectors everywhere” that were connected to the cathedral’s safety HQ at the presbytery, where a firefighter is posted 24 hours a day.

“If something goes off, there is an agent inside the cathedral who can go make checks,” Finot said. He said he was not able to comment on the checks that were carried out after the first alarm sounded.

If indeed the fire was not arson, an electrical source would almost certainly be to blame, one police source said.

 

[otto]

Extremely offensive?

When they declared it an accident while it was still burned, the rush to claim accident was/is a joke.

Why is it funny for news stations around the world to speculate that the fire was an accident related to the restoration work that was done at exactly the location where the fire started? I watched the news of the fire from the moment it was reported (15 minutes into the fire) until the end. That is exactly what happened regarding speculation about the cause of the fire.

Today, it is still considered to be an accident. News stations were not making jokes when they speculated on the cause, they were using common sense. There is no new information about any other cause, so, at this time, it is still considered to be an accident.

 

[PrairieWind]

I do think that the cause of the fire is likely to be an accident. However, it was inappropriate to report so quickly that it was not arson. The appropriate thing to have said is that "at this time there is no evidence of arson" or something like that. In fact I wonder if that isn't what was said and it was just misreported or mistranslated. I do note that as of today the French have said that while they think it is accidental, they have not ruled out arson. Personally, I think it is accidental and likely related to the renovations.

 

[otto]

I do think that the cause of the fire is likely to be an accident. However, it was inappropriate to report so quickly that it was not arson. The appropriate thing to have said is that "at this time there is no evidence of arson" or something like that. In fact I wonder if that isn't what was said and it was just misreported or mistranslated. I do note that as of today the French have said that while they think it is accidental, they have not ruled out arson. Personally, I think it is accidental and likely related to the renovations.

It was not unusual that reporters on CNN and some other news stations stated that it was an accident, or related to the restoration work, within 30 minutes of reporting on the fire (see early discussion comments). As soon as something happens, everyone wants to speculate and, in some cases, irresponsibly state speculation and opinion as fact.

That does not mean that the official decision about the cause of fire was "accident" and that the investigation is concluded, but rather that reporters were doing what they always do. At this time, there is still no evidence of anything other than "accident," so reporters were correct in their speculation.

It seems a bit odd that there is criticism of the fire investigation on the basis that USA media speculated on the cause of the fire as soon as they learned about the fire.

Trump had lots to say about putting out the fire, tweeting that tons of water should be dumped on the fire from the air. The French had to post a tweet in English to address the "lost in translation" issues so he could understand the serious damage that would result from dumping tons of water on such an old building. There were all sorts of pseudo experts on the other side of the pond telling the French how it is and what to do.

 

[Elley Mae]

Why is it funny for news stations around the world to speculate that the fire was an accident related to the restoration work that was done at exactly the location where the fire started? I watched the news of the fire from the moment it was reported (15 minutes into the fire) until the end. That is exactly what happened regarding speculation about the cause of the fire.

Today, it is still considered to be an accident. News stations were not making jokes when they speculated on the cause, they were using common sense. There is no new information about any other cause, so, at this time, it is still considered to be an accident.

It came out of France that it was an accident while it was still burning, the “world” printed what france said. That is a joke(not funny) to me, anyone have the number of churches desecrated in France in the last few years?

The joke is the fire being called an “accident” while it was burning.