Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #8

[Patty G]

Well, the post on greta wire does not say that Kelly contacted Joran first about giving him money for information, all it states is that Kelly was there to find out information about Natallee and after having been there, contacted the FBI so they could set up the sting. It could very well be that Joran found out that Kelly was there seeking information and contacted him first; it could be that Joran was the one who first proposed an exchange of money for information. In fact, it had to be. From a legal standpoint, if Kelly was the one to propose the exchange of info for money then he would have had a criminal complaint lodged against him as well. Further, if Kelly was acting as Beth's agent (attorney) when such a proposal was made, then no crime could have been committed because you cannot extort money from yourself.

True, it doesn't actually say it, but IMO it does say it.

Sources confirm that the plan started in early April. Kelly was engaged in email traffic back and forth with Joran van der Sloot for some time prior to Easter Sunday. Kelly traveled to Aruba on or about Easter, met with van der Sloot and began to set the stage. Kelly was seeking information as to what happened to Natalee Holloway and was seeking that information for his clients, the parents of Natalee Holloway. For reasons unclear, Kelly did not get the information on Easter Sunday but returned to the United States and made contact with the FBI.

Link: http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/


Basically Kelly seeking info and was willing to pay for it. What is very clear is the FBI didn't get involved UNTIL after Beth's attorney met with Joran.

 

[Flow]

I do not have any confidence in that TJW guy. OMG and he's saying Shame on Aruba. I feel almost psychic. ha-ha.

 

[Chanler]

Just take one step backwards. It was Beth's attorney that contacted Joran. I could see your point If Joran contacted Beth, but it was the other way around.

If Beth's attorney didn't contact Joran and no money was exchanged, Joran would have had to find another way to get money or would not have been able to go to Peru. Joran won and loss basically in one poker game.

Hi, Patty G, thanks for your reply. Joran can't be simultaneously smart enough to know that it's a setup and dumb enough to accept it. Whatever little doubts he might have had later about the first contact, he extorted money not once, but twice. I think that FBI did not issue a warrant after the meeting was because Joran still being cagey, providing minimal information which really was the ultimate prize.

P.S. The information you so kindly provide above about the exact Kelly connection presents his meeting with Joran as simply exploratory. However the FBI set up the sting, there is no reason to believe that Joran would have automatically connected it with being set up. His involvement does certainly indicate that he was completely unrealistic and totally desperate for money.

 

[strawberry]

I'm so sorry to ask this but something they just said on JVM confused me. They said what were they doing in there for three hours, shuffling cards? Was it only 3 hours between the time they went in and the time he went out for coffee? Can someone give me the arrival time, coffee time, and leave time if known? Thanks

 

[Kateyes]

Vinda de Sousa was just on CNN ref: Joran. She says she is the attorney for Natalee's father and that they are hoping to "join" the process [or something like that] in the Peruvian courts as the injured or damaged parties.

I've never heard of such a thing in a criminal case.

[Am I posting this on the right thread?]

Early on in this case Nancy Grace had a panel of attorneys on and one of them said that Peru will allow past history of offenses to be presented to the panel of judges. The judges then will decide whether that information will lead to a greater sentence. The exact process wasn't explained in detail. But it is Peru, and things are done quite differently than in the USA. Will try to find a link to some info about that, especially since several posters in the last thread also were incredulous regarding this. I think the one thing to remember is that there is not comparison to the Peruvian court system and the United States court system. In this case, IMHO, that seems to be a good thing, so far.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

I agree...but we don't know if he caught wind of it...and fled the area...as opposed to going on a little vacation. We'll probably never know his motives for doing pretty much anything. Right now, we're just speculating. With all these different versions of events, we don't know a heck of a lot...yet.

Why would he flee if he caught wind of it? It's not as if he doesn't know lawyers who would tell him not to sweat it. There is no evidence that he fleed as opposed to taking a vacation. On the contrary, in my opinion, the evidence shows he was just there to gamble/vacation --all he brought with him was a daypack and duffle bag.

 

[Patty G]

Hopefully Greta will come up with the finer details regarding the contact dates and so on.

 

[Patty G]

Early on in this case Nancy Grace had a panel of attorneys on and one of them said that Peru will allow past history of offenses to be presented to the panel of judges. The judges then will decide whether that information will lead to a greater sentence. The exact process wasn't explained in detail. But it is Peru, and things are done quite differently than in the USA. Will try to find a link to some info about that, especially since several posters in the last thread also were incredulous regarding this. I think the one thing to remember is that there is not comparison to the Peruvian court system and the United States court system. In this case, IMHO, that seems to be a good thing, so far.

The problem is, Joran wasn't charged with anything regarding Natalie. :crazy:

 

[epiphany]

JVM: Is there video re: going and returning with coffee/bread?
JVM: not the type to be gentlemanly enough to bring her coffee
TJWard: shame on Aruba, this girl would be alive
Caller: re Aruba - there was no body here; there was no evidence of a crime here

 

[SoCalSleuth]

True, it doesn't actually say it, but IMO it does say it.

Sources confirm that the plan started in early April. Kelly was engaged in email traffic back and forth with Joran van der Sloot for some time prior to Easter Sunday. Kelly traveled to Aruba on or about Easter, met with van der Sloot and began to set the stage. Kelly was seeking information as to what happened to Natalee Holloway and was seeking that information for his clients, the parents of Natalee Holloway. For reasons unclear, Kelly did not get the information on Easter Sunday but returned to the United States and made contact with the FBI.

Link: http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/


Basically Kelly seeking info and was willing to pay for it. What is very clear is the FBI didn't get involved UNTIL after Beth's attorney met with Joran.

Patty, it's funny how two people can read the same thing and get something entirely different out of it! I still can't see that anywhere it implies that Kelly made the first contact. And again, if Kelly was the one that proposed getting information in exchange for money from Beth--then he is just as guilty of the crime as is Joran. That's the law. And if Kelly was acting as Beth's attorney and proposed that Beth give Joran money in exchange for information--then no crime was committed--that's not extortion. PS My opinion is further supported by the fact that the FBI didn't get involved until after Kelly met with Joran--no crime unless Joran asks for money which he apparently did on Easter Sunday.

 

[sandangel]

Jean C. said earlier on HLN that the report she received today states that Joran says that Stephany hit him first - then he hit her. UNBELIEVABLE!! I do not believe the details of his confession at all!!!!

 

[epiphany]

JVM: Peruvian LE is proud to have caught him; a moment to shine
MikeB: oh, yeah
MikeB: there is more evidence we haven't seen - father says date-rape drugs in car

 

[Flow]

Per the Birmingham News, the FBI directed Beth H. not to comment.
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/natalee_holloways_mother_beth_3.html

Either she decided to heck with the FBI and is doing her own thing or someone is impersonating her. I have seen her on several channels this evening alone. She had a big press conference. You could hear all the still camera shutters going click-click-click like during the President's press conference. And in the preview for ET they advertised an interview with BHT. [That in itself is strange. ET?!]

See! She's on right now!

 

[Patty G]

I'm so sorry to ask this but something they just said on JVM confused me. They said what were they doing in there for three hours, shuffling cards? Was it only 3 hours between the time they went in and the time he went out for coffee? Can someone give me the arrival time, coffee time, and leave time if known? Thanks

Arrival: ~5:00 AM
Left for Coffee ~ 8:00 AM
Return with coffee: ~ 8:20 AM
Joran's Departure: ~8:40 AM

We have yet to see video of Joran going for coffee

 

[RR0004]

I'm so sorry to ask this but something they just said on JVM confused me. They said what were they doing in there for three hours, shuffling cards? Was it only 3 hours between the time they went in and the time he went out for coffee? Can someone give me the arrival time, coffee time, and leave time if known? Thanks

@ 5am arrival
@ 8am coffee
@ 8:30-9:00am departure from hotel

 

[RR0004]

Patty, it's funny how two people can read the same thing and get something entirely different out of it! I still can't see that anywhere it implies that Kelly made the first contact. And again, if Kelly was the one that proposed getting information in exchange for money from Beth--then he is just as guilty of the crime as is Joran. That's the law. And if Kelly was acting as Beth's attorney and proposed that Beth give Joran money in exchange for information--then no crime was committed--that's not extortion. PS My opinion is further supported by the fact that the FBI didn't get involved until after Kelly met with Joran--no crime unless Joran asks for money which he apparently did on Easter Sunday.

I know many early on wondered about it actually being extortion.

 

[Flow]

Was JVS a suspect before these Americans went to Aruba and investigated it on their own?

 

[sandangel]

OMG!!!! On JMV, they just said that Columbia officials are on their way to Peru right now to question Van Der Sloot about 2 missing girls from Columbia!!!

 

[raeann]

Ok...I have been away for quite awhile....but how did I miss that JVDS was in Columbia for 2 days and during that time 2 young girls went missing from a casino???

http://stephww.wordpress.com/2010/0...-columbia-officals-questioning-van-der-sloot/

 

[GolferChick]

Watching JVM here in the West -- omg...eight talking heads at once on the screen.

Can I just say that sometimes I can't stand hearing the talking heads -- so I just mute the sound and follow everything here at WS!! IMO, better analysis, outstanding thinkers, news from every source imaginable and at times, outstanding comic relief!