Petition for release of info and FOIL info

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Petition for SCPD release of info on SG:
www.change.org/petitions/suffolk-county-ny-police-department-release-information-regarding-the-disappearance-of-shannan-gilbert


SCPD FOIL request:
http://apps.suffolkcountyny.gov/police/foilframe.htm

Note: You will have to give your name and email address to receive an email with a link to the form.

--------------
You will find a drop-down menu which you will select "other". The information needs to be listed in as much detail as possible according to law. An example of a request for this case:

911 call from SG, * The Fairway, Babylon, NY 11702, apx 4:51 am

911 call from GC, ** The Fairway, Babylon, NY 11702, apx 5 am

911 call from BB, ** The Crescent, Babylon, NY 11702 , apx 5:22 am

Any/all police or incident reports, witness reports, DD5's, and supplemental reports from May 1, 2010, apx 5:30 am to present in regard to the investigation concerning SG, redacting only information that would violate State Statutes

ME report on SG December 2011

List of Items received from any executed Search and Seizure Warrants in regard to SG, including, but not limited to, those conducted on JB and CPH, as well as any phone records that were reported from both JB and CPH from April 1, 2010 until December 31, 2011, and/or those records received at a later date pertaining to any executed warrants conducted

NY State Law info on FOIL rights:
www.dos.ny.gov/coog/Right_to_know.html

Here is the first post in the thread for reference. Note the initials and the asterisks for the address since I'm pretty sure that would be against TOS. It is not just a "blanket" request. The final link takes you to your rights within NY on FOIL requests. I gave a detailed description (as required by law) in the records I requested.
 
I'm the person who asserted that FOIL was the proper avenue for your request (after someone else said they wouldn't have jurisdiction). Nowhere have I said that the request is not allowed or laughable. I'm also telling you that the request will be rejected because of Section 87 2. (e) i., and you've proved me correct by citing cases where precisely that happened. Those cases were won by Petitioners on appeal (presumably with the aid of counsel), and I didn't make any reference to the appeals process. So your perception of personal offense is entirely unfounded.

You were singing a different tune when I gave these examples:

Bly v. City of Yonkers, Supreme Court, Westchester County, March 17, 2009 - -

Involved request for records concerning 1952 murder of labor leader that "was never solved, and the murder investigation remains open." Request was denied "in its entirety" based on section 87(2)(e)(i), (ii), (iii) and (iv). Court emphasized an agency's responsibility to meet the burden of proof, stating that: "While there is precedent for delaying disclosure of police reports until the completion of a pending law enforcement investigation or prosecution of criminal charges, the Court finds that under the facts and circumstances of this case, Respondents have failed to articulate sufficient reasons why the requested documents are exempt from disclosure", citing Gould and rejecting a "blanket" denial of access. Respondents' "justification of the claim to exemption consists mostly of conclusory and generalized policy concerns." See also Markowitz regarding burden of proof.

Gould, Scott and DeFelice v. New York City Police Department, 653 NYS2d 54, 89 NY2d 267 (1996) --

Police department's complaint follow-up reports, "DD5's", were withheld in their entirety and Department claimed that police officers' memo books or activity logs were not agency records. Court of Appeals reversed and held that DD5's are subject to rights of access conferred by the Freedom of Information Law and that memo books are agency records. Agency required to review records in their entirety to determine which portions, if any, may justifiably be withheld. Additionally, the Court rejected suggestion that records are exempt because they are "nonfinal"; found that "factual data", a phrase it construed broadly, within such documentation must be disclosed.

Legal Aid Society v. New York City Police Department, Supreme Court, New York County, NYLJ, October 22, 1998 --

Citing Gould, reiterated that the Criminal Procedure Law does not preclude defendants from using FOIL and found that the Police Department "has consistently failed to adhere to its dictates." Denials of access did not refer to specific contents of records and agency staff apparently did not review records prior to denying access. Petitioner sought class certification because each applicant for records "receives the same denial", and court held that "this is one of those rare cases where the continued and obvious resistance on the part of government officials to follow the mandate of the law makes class certification appropriate." Agency in denying access must state "with factual particularity how and why" an exception applies; the rationale for delays in responding to requests must be "explicitly explained".

Bannon v. New York City Police Department, Supreme Court, New York County, September 8, 1997 --

Since agency did not make DD5's available for in camera inspection and the papers did not contain a detailed analysis of their contents, court granted the petition following redaction of information identifying witnesses; held that other aspects of the records, i.e., those involving investigative techniques, must be submitted for in camera review prior to withholding.

Blanche v. Winn and Constantine, Supreme Court, Cayuga County, September 17, 1990 --

Petitioner requested various records, many of which had been destroyed or were not maintained by respondent agencies, which were "under no duty to maintain these files, nor to reconstruct them..."; Court upheld denial of certain forensics reports under §87(2)(e)(iv), victim's phone under §87(2)(b) and certain items of clothing because they were not "records"; was granted access to police reports often redaction names and addresses of victim and victim's mother, an evidence inventory list, a victim's statement under Civil Rights Law, §50-b, as well as sperm samples be provided and State Police investigative report "which does not reveal non-routine investigative techniques which would aid anyone in detection", following deletion of identifying details.
 
I love your tenacity! It's a good quality to have.

I certainly expect the SCPD to deny my request, but they're going to need valid reasons. A couple examples (just the 911 call):

"Denied because the call contains information given by a confidential informant." Acceptable.

"Denied because it would put the safety of X's life at risk." Acceptable if an in camera review of the call deems that to be true.

"Denied because the names of POIs could jeopardize an ongoing investigation and subsequent conviction." Acceptable, but this is where there is a fine line. First, names/identifying details can be redacted. Second, if it comes down to it, an in camera review of that information can be ruled by the court... not just the word of the SCPD.

That's really what it is all about. The word of the SCPD vs the word of the court. So, while the SCPD can explain away a denial, it isn't just taken on the word of the SCPD, it is *verified* by the court.

If the SCPD denies based on the last example I described, I would question that word because of the very public statements the SCPD has made. They can't say that there's no frantic SG on the call and then when her body is found say they believe it's an accident and there's no POI and then say they need to keep the 911 call out of the public's hands. It's contradictory.

There have been many cases 911 calls were released before a murder investigation was completed and before a jury accepted a murder conviction. I think I just watched one on 48 hrs Mystery a few weeks ago. ;)

If, in the 911 call, SG names her murderer, then why is that person not in jail awaiting trial?

This was in reply to Seaslug explaining to me what he believed would be a sufficient denial to my request for the 911 calls. I gave examples of how it would have had to be worded based on the law. (I did not say Mr. Cohen or any of his staff BROKE the law, they just didn't follow the instructions set by the Courts.)
 
And finally... regarding the 911 calls, there is not much out there because it hasn't been requested for the most part until more recently.

New York Times Company v. City of New York Fire Department, 835 NYS2d 92, 39AD3d 414 (2007) - -

Some tapes of 911 calls made during attack on 911 “include, by repetition, by 911 operators... identifying information provided by the caller.” Court of Appeals in NY Times v. NY Fire Dept., previously held “words” of 911 callers be redacted, and that “redaction of repeated information is consistent with the intent of the Court of Appeals.”


Wooten v. New York City Police Department, Supreme Court, New York County, September 9, 2008 - -

Petitioner requested records relating to a complaint that he filed, including a 911 transcript of a call made by the manager of a store where petitioner was present, and a copy of the police report filed by two named officers. After numerous delays, petitioner was informed that 911 transcript is no longer maintained and was erased before receiving his request and that police report could not be found. Held that agency "failed to provide any statement certifying that the requested documents are not in its possession and control or that the documents could not be located after a thorough and diligent search, which would be sufficient to render petitioner's application moot", citing Rattley. Also held that agency offered no factual basis for claiming privacy exception concerning redactions made from police report and ordered disclosure of unredacted report.
 
My copy/paste isn't working, so I can't link these. Google these cases for links.

Troy, NY-July 31, 2012: 911 call released in a case where a man was being dragged by a truck.

Hawthorne, NY-Oct 28, 2009: two 911 calls released in a case of a wrong way accident.

There's 2/3 for starters.

Forgot to add these to my last post...
 
Excuse me if I sound arrogant when it comes to FOIL requests. For over six years I taught a course on the subject. If I sound like a self-proclaimed expert on the topic, it's because I have been told by countless individuals that I am.

I take your word with a grain of salt just as I expect the other members here to take my word. I've done the research myself and know what it is I'm reading. I can explain to the rest of the members here the research I've done, and they can either take my word, take your word, or seek the information for themselves. I've never claimed to be an expert on FOIL requests. I'm not a lawyer, and never claimed to be.

I won't stop seeking the information because of your word or the word of any other member here. I know what I've read. I understand the laws and I understand my rights.
 
It's becoming apparent to me that this poster is only here to stir up drama and get a rise out of me, specifically. A new user comments on a thread I started with accusations that I have been disrespectful, insulting, dishonest, and defamatory (definition included: used of statements harmful and often untrue; tending to discredit or malign). Not just in this discussion, but again accuses me of being dishonest in another thread.

It comes as no surprise to me since some other (yes, plural) WS'ers have been calling me a liar on the board, in private, and in other forums unrelated to WS for the past week. It is most interesting that this poster as well as a couple (few?) others have been doing exactly what they accuse me of.

I don't see any actual attacks against you. All I see is someone calling it as he or she sees it. I've been saying all along that your FOIL requests for the 911 tapes will be denied. In those other discussions you were dishing out some extremely negative comments about SCPD officers and County politicians being all corrupt and stuff. Now someone comes along to point out that your comments are insulting and you think they are targeting you?
 
Way to take it to the streets Mom. Although I do not agree with everything you have said on this board.....I applaud/respect the effort.
 
My comment saying that I knew a couple guys who are on patrol for SC are stand up guys was deleted. So atleast we have a neutral moderator here, which is nice.
 
I don't see any actual attacks against you. All I see is someone calling it as he or she sees it. I've been saying all along that your FOIL requests for the 911 tapes will be denied. In those other discussions you were dishing out some extremely negative comments about SCPD officers and County politicians being all corrupt and stuff. Now someone comes along to point out that your comments are insulting and you think they are targeting you?

In my opinion it went BEYOND calling it as he or she sees it. The level of arrogance was off the charts. It sounded like a meltdown.
 
Things are easily misinterpreted when normal conversation includes pronunciation, annunciation, facial expressions, tone, eye contact and body lanuage. Then take all of that away and all you got left is written text. Then add all of those abbrevviations I do not understand and even I (yes even me, so do not feel bad mere mortals) get things mixed up.

BTW if you cannot tell I was being sarcastic about the whole mortal thing.
 
Things are easily misinterpreted when normal conversation includes pronunciation, annunciation, facial expressions, tone, eye contact and body lanuage. Then take all of that away and all you got left is written text. Then add all of those abbrevviations I do not understand and even I (yes even me, so do not feel bad mere mortals) get things mixed up.



BTW if you cannot tell I was being sarcastic about the whole mortal thing.

LMBO! Happens to me so much I have a quote handy! ; )

223635_10151283998462288_1707986242_n.png
 
My comment saying that I knew a couple guys who are on patrol for SC are stand up guys was deleted. So atleast we have a neutral moderator here, which is nice.

I think that whole strand of comments were deleted. There are people here who may not have seen the accusations of this ps149 on the Crockpot thread. It may be harder to understand where this comment below (or above) is coming from. In that thread, I was called a liar... TWICE (among other things).

I pride myself on being a woman of good character, and to be accused of anything but (just as I said before) gets my blood boiling.

I have ZERO problems with disagreeing with people or debating a subject. I'm actually fond of debate. That wasn't the case with this ps149, it was never about having a different opinion than myself, it was the personal attacks that I took offence to.

Plenty of members have shared their difference of opinion, but just because I don't agree and think it's a stretch of the imagination, I don't take offence or personally attack them.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
148
Guests online
1,642
Total visitors
1,790

Forum statistics

Threads
605,597
Messages
18,189,505
Members
233,454
Latest member
jcnew91
Back
Top