Plea or Tip? Will there be an arrest?

[jessigirl]

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear

I just mean that while they're so restricted in speaking about certain things publicly, they are spending a considerable amount of time talking together...and which makes me think that is beyond just the two having lost daughters of similar ages to the hands of a horrible man, and in the same general community, but that it's because the two families are able to understand even more due to knowing a whole lot we aren't privy to...and that that's part of why from very early on Amber's parents started saying that they were afraid she had also been a victim of JAG.

I still don't think I'm making sense. I'm sorry...

Traveling Bug will once more explain what you mean by this? It sounds as if you are really on to something with this comment but I'm not fully understanding what you mean?... TIA

 

[jessigirl]

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear

I just mean that while they're so restricted in speaking about certain things publicly, they are spending a considerable amount of time talking together...and which makes me think that is beyond just the two having lost daughters of similar ages to the hands of a horrible man, and in the same general community, but that it's because the two families are able to understand even more due to knowing a whole lot we aren't privy to...and that that's part of why from very early on Amber's parents started saying that they were afraid she had also been a victim of JAG.

I still don't think I'm making sense. I'm sorry...

Traveling Bug will once more explain what you mean by this? It sounds as if you are really on to something with this comment but I'm not fully understanding what you mean?... TIA

 

[TravelingBug]

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear

I just mean that while they're so restricted in speaking about certain things publicly, they are spending a considerable amount of time talking together...and which makes me think that is beyond just the two having lost daughters of similar ages to the hands of a horrible man, and in the same general community, but that it's because the two families are able to understand even more due to knowing a whole lot we aren't privy to...and that that's part of why from very early on Amber's parents started saying that they were afraid she had also been a victim of JAG.

I still don't think I'm making sense. I'm sorry...

Traveling Bug will once more explain what you mean by this? It sounds as if you are really on to something with this comment but I'm not fully understanding what you mean?... TIA

What I was sort of hinting at is that I think that very, very early into Chelsea's disappearance, and likely as soon as they found evidence on Chelsea's panties that began pointing them to JAG, that Amber's parents also were in the loop more than they would have been otherwise, since they had also known and been concerned about JAG's involvement in their own daughter's case.

I think in the search for Chelsea - in JAG's home, and maybe even on the north shore of Lake Hodges, that they may also have found evidence having to do with Amber and her case, and so again, the parents knew that they were more linked than both having daughters victims of a senseless crime in a neighboring community.

And, I think through that, the families talking and have more contact that I believe has been publicly stated, that if LE were to have the chance to somehow leverage something with Chelsea's case in order to get answers in Amber's case, that Chelsea's parents would have given their blessing.

So I don't think it's out of the question to think that that relationship may have also factored into how this all came out with the "tip" now.

I feel like I'm muddled trying to explain this and how I think it ties to the remains of Amber just having been found - but...it's the best I can do tonight!

 

[jessigirl]

What I was sort of hinting at is that I think that very, very early into Chelsea's disappearance, and likely as soon as they found evidence on Chelsea's panties that began pointing them to JAG, that Amber's parents also were in the loop more than they would have been otherwise, since they had also known and been concerned about JAG's involvement in their own daughter's case.

I think in the search for Chelsea - in JAG's home, and maybe even on the north shore of Lake Hodges, that they may also have found evidence having to do with Amber and her case, and so again, the parents knew that they were more linked than both having daughters victims of a senseless crime in a neighboring community.

And, I think through that, the families talking and have more contact that I believe has been publicly stated, that if LE were to have the chance to somehow leverage something with Chelsea's case in order to get answers in Amber's case, that Chelsea's parents would have given their blessing.

So I don't think it's out of the question to think that that relationship may have also factored into how this all came out with the "tip" now.

I feel like I'm muddled trying to explain this and how I think it ties to the remains of Amber just having been found - but...it's the best I can do tonight!

I completely understand what you're saying, now. You may it was muddled but you thoroughly answered my question and I too completely agree with your thoughts. I believe that the Kings would've wholeheartedly given their blessing for some kind of "plea bargain"(for lack of a better term right at this moment)because knowing the deep ache and pain that only those two families are unfortunately feeling because of this MONSTER. They, I believe know that the true justice for their daughters lies not in the hands of our justice system but in an ETERNAL JUSTICE OF SUFFERING THAT AWAITS MONSTERS OF THIS KIND:furious: ...... (btw am new to posting. so still not sure of how the replying to specific quotes of other members works. im learning:waitasec

 

[Julie111475]

What I was sort of hinting at is that I think that very, very early into Chelsea's disappearance, and likely as soon as they found evidence on Chelsea's panties that began pointing them to JAG, that Amber's parents also were in the loop more than they would have been otherwise, since they had also known and been concerned about JAG's involvement in their own daughter's case.

I think in the search for Chelsea - in JAG's home, and maybe even on the north shore of Lake Hodges, that they may also have found evidence having to do with Amber and her case, and so again, the parents knew that they were more linked than both having daughters victims of a senseless crime in a neighboring community.

And, I think through that, the families talking and have more contact that I believe has been publicly stated, that if LE were to have the chance to somehow leverage something with Chelsea's case in order to get answers in Amber's case, that Chelsea's parents would have given their blessing.

So I don't think it's out of the question to think that that relationship may have also factored into how this all came out with the "tip" now.

I feel like I'm muddled trying to explain this and how I think it ties to the remains of Amber just having been found - but...it's the best I can do tonight!

No, I think you have explained it very well & again I agree 100%! I think it truly speaks volumes of the type of noble people the King's are to go along with this especially at such a horribly raw and emotionally trying time for them. If they can get past their anger and give their consent for a plea to give the Dubois' family some answers it goes to show you that they will be great advocates for helping families in the future. It is such a sad situation but at least these families have each other to lean on especially in light of the gag order in place. I don't think either family will let their daughter's death's be in vein.

Traveling Bug - Any word yet on the news there on the potential scoop they had coming up @ 11???

 

[TravelingBug]

No, I think you have explained it very well & again I agree 100%! I think it truly speaks volumes of the type of noble people the King's are to go along with this especially at such a horribly raw and emotionally trying time for them. If they can get past their anger and give their consent for a plea to give the Dubois' family some answers it goes to show you that they will be great advocates for helping families in the future. It is such a sad situation but at least these families have each other to lean on especially in light of the gag order in place. I don't think either family will let their daughter's death's be in vein.

Traveling Bug - Any word yet on the news there on the potential scoop they had coming up @ 11???

No And the stations at 10 didn't mention anything new to me...so I'm hoping the other really is because they promo'd it again right after the top of the hour (for the 11 o'clock news). So I'm hoping them saying it's new means that even if I watched their (and every other option) broadcast earlier this evening it'll still be new news.

 

[JBean]

I agree, I don't know why I watch because I always end up so frustrated. Her lack of knowledge about subjects really bothers me, she's supposed to have experience in law and sometimes I feel like I know more just from reading up on here than she does:banghead:! HMMM maybe I can have a talkshow?!?!?!:woohoo:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71889"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Your asking questions that are way out of my area of expertise. We need the legal heads!

Does one still have a trial if you make a deal to forgo the death penalty in exchange for information?

I wonder when the hearing was scheduled? I wonder if they had the hearing?

Don't know...

None of this seems plausible from a lawyer's standpoint. You don't take them to the body or admit to any involvement unless you have a written deal agreement on the table. Once you do it's over--done with0--and the judge handling the arraignment would know. You would not go in and then argue against unsealing his records and you would not go in and ask for a gag order--a gag order which is meant to preclude negative PRETRIAL publicity--you wouldn't do any of these things because for all intents and purposes it is over. Also, Amber was not found on the reservation so how would an LE officer from the reservation know if John Gardner was in the area. This is a remote spot off the reservation. I doubt they allowed anyone to follow them up there. Also, before they ever make an offer to take the death penalty off the table, they first try to gather as much evidence against the suspect as they can so they can prosecute him with it on the table. This report just doesn't ring true.

 

[jessigirl]

None of this seems plausible from a lawyer's standpoint. You don't take them to the body or admit to any involvement unless you have a written deal agreement on the table. Once you do it's over--done with0--and the judge handling the arraignment would know. You would not go in and then argue against unsealing his records and you would not go in and ask for a gag order--a gag order which is meant to preclude negative PRETRIAL publicity--you wouldn't do any of these things because for all intents and purposes it is over. Also, Amber was not found on the reservation so how would an LE officer from the reservation know if John Gardner was in the area. This is a remote spot off the reservation. I doubt they allowed anyone to follow them up there. Also, before they ever make an offer to take the death penalty off the table, they first try to gather as much evidence against the suspect as they can so they can prosecute him with it on the table. This report just doesn't ring true.

But if that indeed is NOT true and JAG did NOT point out location or give up the details that led them DIRECTLY to Amber's body then WHO&HOW?
Because as earlier stated about Chelsea they found panties and a shoe within yards of her body, yet it was still several days of THOROUGH searching of that VERY SMALL area til they found Chelsea's body. So how could,just as you say, this very remote and extremely vast and rocky terrain of an area could LE so quickly(within hours because as we know Kit Carson was being searched within hours) how could they have found her so quickly in this huge, remote area? All within days of JAG in custody? There is no way this is a coincidence at all and IMO there is no way this "tip" came from anyone but JAG. Otherwise there would be another arrest for accomplice after the fact with that much detailed knowledge of the crime. MOO

 

[jjenny]

But if that indeed is NOT true and JAG did NOT point out location or give up the details that led them DIRECTLY to Amber's body then WHO&HOW?
Because as earlier stated about Chelsea they found panties and a shoe within yards of her body, yet it was still several days of THOROUGH searching of that VERY SMALL area til they found Chelsea's body. So how could,just as you say, this very remote and extremely vast and rocky terrain of an area could LE so quickly(within hours because as we know Kit Carson was being searched within hours) how could they have found her so quickly in this huge, remote area? All within days of JAG in custody? There is no way this is a coincidence at all and IMO there is no way this "tip" came from anyone but JAG. Otherwise there would be another arrest for accomplice after the fact with that much detailed knowledge of the crime. MOO

The LE has clearly stated they had a lead. They obviously didn't find the body randomly. I fail to see as to why JAG would tip them-he's got nothing to gain but the death penalty unless he would have made a deal and there doesn't seem to be enough time to get all that worked out. So someone else probably tipped the LE as far as I am concerned, someone who knew where the body was.

 

[TravelingBug]

KGTV (10) at 11:

Chelsea King's parents were at the vigil tonight in support of Amber's parents. About 2000 turned out.

EPD are being very tight lipped so as to not jeopardize the case and isn't giving details publicly right now about how it was they got the information about where Amber was found.

Despite that, that's why JAG's attorney is asking for a gag order.

They ended that part with stating that as to whether or not there is truly a link between JAG/Amber/Chelsea, per LE, "more information will be coming out tomorrow."

***New news they promo'd***

SD Union Tribune gave KGTV an early copy of the morning's paper, which basically states that JAG's now crashed gold car is confirmed to matche exactly with the ID'd in the Elsinore case

 

[Curious Me]

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12099609

This news station reported just now that Gardner did not provide information to help locate Amber.

Wonder who did.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

I definitely think whoever did this is in jail--and most probably is JAG--otherwise it would be pretty irresponsible for them to let residents think that it was JAG or at least not warn that it possibly could be someone else--especially with all the criticism they have been getting about not warning after the December attack. But it doesn't make any sense from a laywer's standpoint that JAG TOLD them where she was for the reasons stated above. I've worked in the courts here for about 30 years and one thing that I've learned is that birds of a feather flock together--it would not surprise me if he had a buddy that did the same things or went with him or knew about his activities and it didn't bother him. Maybe even one of the teens seen at his apartment. They may very well have brought someone out to the scene--maybe someone in prison who wanted to cut a deal. The possibilities are endless-sadly. That said, the courthouse is a hotspot of gossip and normally we would all know the skinny on this by now. However, no one is talking NOT because they don't want to but because they simply have no information on what went down. Very unusual that they are holding this so close to the vest.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

KGTV (10) at 11:

Chelsea King's parents were at the vigil tonight in support of Amber's parents. About 2000 turned out.

EPD are being very tight lipped so as to not jeopardize the case and isn't giving details publicly right now about how it was they got the information about where Amber was found.

Despite that, that's why JAG's attorney is asking for a gag order.

They ended that part with stating that as to whether or not there is truly a link between JAG/Amber/Chelsea, per LE, "more information will be coming out tomorrow."

***New news they promo'd***

SD Union Tribune gave KGTV an early copy of the morning's paper, which basically states that JAG's now crashed gold car is confirmed to matche exactly with the ID'd in the Elsinore case

This is my point. If JAG had told them where she was there would no longer be a "case" to jeopardize.

 

[Tink56]

I definitely think whoever did this is in jail--and most probably is JAG--otherwise it would be pretty irresponsible for them to let residents think that it was JAG or at least not warn that it possibly could be someone else--especially with all the criticism they have been getting about not warning after the December attack. But it doesn't make any sense from a laywer's standpoint that JAG TOLD them where she was for the reasons stated above. I've worked in the courts here for about 30 years and one thing that I've learned is that birds of a feather flock together--it would not surprise me if he had a buddy that did the same things or went with him or knew about his activities and it didn't bother him. Maybe even one of the teens seen at his apartment. They may very well have brought someone out to the scene--maybe someone in prison who wanted to cut a deal. The possibilities are endless-sadly. That said, the courthouse is a hotspot of gossip and normally we would all know the skinny on this by now. However, no one is talking NOT because they don't want to but because they simply have no information on what went down. Very unusual that they are holding this so close to the vest.

I tend to agree with you. If it's not Gardner, I think the person responsible must be in jail. That would explain perhaps the confusion about "someone" (the KFI email thought Gardner) was being brought to the area by police.

 

[Curious Me]

It might be a good subject to have a poll - Who provided the info to find Amber?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Quote from Curious Me's article:

Amber disappeared Feb. 13, 2009 near Escondido High School, about 10 miles north of the site where King vanished Feb. 25. A body presumed to be Chelsea was found March 2 in a shallow, lakeside grave, but authorities have said they would not make an official identification until Gardner's preliminary hearing.

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12099609


This, I find, very strange. JAG has already been charged with her murder - yet the body has not be indentified? Whats up with that? Could it have something to do with COD? But then still - she can be ID'd w/o COD being given. Yet, they have already released that it is definitely Amber - and even added she was ID'd through dental records. Chelsea should have been easily identified as she was found so quickly - yet she is the one they are NOT identifying. Make sense?

There is definitely something up. Does anyone think the hearing tomorrow might be postponed (I hope not)?

Anyone else's thoughts about this?

 

[Tink56]

Quote from Curious Me's article:

Amber disappeared Feb. 13, 2009 near Escondido High School, about 10 miles north of the site where King vanished Feb. 25. A body presumed to be Chelsea was found March 2 in a shallow, lakeside grave, but authorities have said they would not make an official identification until Gardner's preliminary hearing.

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12099609


This, I find, very strange. JAG has already been charged with her murder - yet the body has not be indentified? Whats up with that? Could it have something to do with COD? But then still - she can be ID'd w/o COD being given. Yet, they have already released that it is definitely Amber - and even added she was ID'd through dental records. Chelsea should have been easily identified as she was found so quickly - yet she is the one they are NOT identifying. Make sense?

There is definitely something up. Does anyone think the hearing tomorrow might be postponed (I hope not)?

Anyone else's thoughts about this?

I just read that part of the hearing tomorrow may be to postpone the hearing on the 18th...hmmmm

 

[cluciano63]

I think that LE is handly this very weirdly; they should come out and say that they do not believe the public is in danger from Amber's alleged killer if they have a suspect who is not in a position to harm anyone else. They are being irresponsible in their efforts to keep the media at bay, IMO. They will have to say something before 3/18 to indicate if another killer is on the loose, in prison or is dead, whatever the case may be; I don't think the media will allow them to get away with it, will sue for public's right to know. I think the fact that it is PROBABLY Jag is a big problem for LE, as they might have caught him before Chelsea's murder if they had paid attention and are very reluctant to admit it right now and are making a hash of it all.
Sorry, that was a bit off-topic but as to HOW they found Amber boggles the mind as I doubt very much any plea was worked out so quickly or that JAG would confess anyway, not his style. Quite a lot os suspense for something that LE will have to admit to at some point soon.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

What if the tip came from the family and remember the writing on the garage door - so what if LE is making arrangements to get whoever provided the information safe? Perhaps they were afraid till he was locked up to speak for fear they would be disposable to? I would think that a public defender would be begging for a gag order if that were the case. Multiple reasons above what we already know. Perhaps said defender is worried how big this is about to get?

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