POI: Michael Pak

[Seaslug44]

Seaslug44 said

Yes but being an escort, an escort service or an escort's driver is not illegal in New York state. There is a huge difference between escorting and prostitution.

Yes the difference is 'sexual conduct' once "the person engages or agrees
or offers to engage in sexual conduct with another person in return for
a fee" it becomes illegal. Call it escorting if you will, but if it involves sexual conduct it is illegal in New York state.

MOO

I totally agree except prosecutors cannot stretch the law to apply it to anyone (or any business) who profits from the escort's activities. If what you are saying is applicable then every limo driver, motel, taxi driver, etc... who receives payment from a prostitute could be subject to prosecution. We all know that this is not the case so there is no way that a judge would allow charges to be witheld against MP based upon assumptions ( that cannot be proven) that he was anything more than a hired driver.

Even if they wanted to go down that road, the escort would first have to be convicted of the illegal sexual conduct for a fee in order for the prosecutors to substantiate that a crime was actually committed by the escort (they cannot charge someone for promoting prostitution if the very illegal act of prostitution cannot be established).

It all comes down to Criminal Law 101: PROVE IT.

 

[BKS]

Yes but being an escort, an escort service or an escort's driver is not illegal in New York state.

There is a huge difference between escorting and prostitution.

The police have already acknowledged publicly that MP and JB and SG were involved in prostitution. I thought this was public knowledge. I can provide the link if that's necessary.

 

[En Passant]

I agree I think MP deserves to be in jail for his criminal acts as well as Alex for the jaw issue & sex trafficking but there is no way a reputible Doctor listens to these low life scumbags & decides to implement himself in a missing womans investagation especially after the whole community was on the hooter about it.

Does not sound likely unless a plan was hatched which it was reported MP alex & Jb did speak right after...now I think it was for a few reasons.
1. They wanted to protect themselves & not get in trouble with the Law.
2. Pak & Alex realized that Shannan had to have been killed like Shannan stated JB & "THey" were going to.
3. MP knew SG went with JB upon arrival to get Sedative & MP wanted to talk with CPH so MP got himself out of the mix & made CPH say rehab
4. If MP wanted to kill SG he had plenty of chances to kill her long before OB & bringing everybody & there mother in on it.
5. This revolves around JB, CPH giving Drugs & GC who is the last person who saw SG & Pak looking for her.

If CPH drugged SG after the "CHASE" & SG died due to this & JB was in on it as well as GC covering.....than maybe they stuck together.



It does not even register that MP all of a sudden decided....to kill SG, Also JB & Pak stated JB had so many concerns about SG being a transveitite & why did JB want MP to go to CVS.

It would make sense that it would be so JB can say SG took off & possibly kill MP like the other DEAD Asain Male who also could have been a driver.

If MP was in a plot to kill SG I doubt MP would have Driven SG so Far & do it in a community that has a surviellence system. Did Mp vehicle would have been on camera along with Saint GC at the gate....& through the community.

Again MP is a leech but he wouldn't kill the hand that feeds him. SG trusted him...what I would love to know is what exact story did JB tell MP as to why SG called Police.....He probably had a great con story like Narcisstic Cunning Sadistic Serial Killers do....IMO

Also The Grabbing/Choking....lets just say aggressing on SG from behind is also a SK trait...surprise attack. How can people honestly think it is just going to be put on MP back & OB is back to business like usual...come on, I didn't fall off no turnip truck.....No offense just saying. We are all speculating but thats a little far fetched.

I think MP, JB, CPH hatched a story & thought it would fly. I think Alex & MP wanted to talk with Doc privately saying you better make this right etc or everything comes out.....I think everything is out....Now......I think MpP would get shredded by the defense so they need more than him & I wouldn't be surprised if they were taped etc.. MP baiting them.....Thats what I think is possible. I also think The Doc GC MP & every1 is trying to bury the other one & they are just sifting over the mess till the FBI & LE feels they have a strong defense, my personal thought.

 

[En Passant]

The police have already acknowledged publicly that MP and JB and SG were involved in prostitution. I thought this was public knowledge. I can provide the link if that's necessary.

TY.... so didn't MG state the same exact thing, how they agreed on sex, monies etc. maybe a new link for that debate. I agree it is spent & not an issue, JB hired SG, case closed. TY BKS

 

[Tugela]

Truth,

I am not a local, I live about 450-550 miles away. I would like to meet you someday and discuss this case.

Tugela

If I am correct judges in New York state are elected. It would be very difficult for an elected judge in such a high profile case not to at least have a trial and allow a jury to hear the evidence that LE has.

As BKS has stated, the evidence is in the public record. I think a judge would be very foolish and reckless to dismiss the charges before a trial. Many cases in New York have gone to trial with far less 'evidence'.


The phone call from JB to SG and/or MP prove the offer was made, because if no offer was made they would not have driven to Oak Beach.

Under the law MP claiming SG was an escort is not a defense.

LE tends to concentrate on street walkers rather than escorts, because of public complaints and it is even an easier conviction. The public does not really care about escorts because of their low profile. A couple of hookers working your street corner will get your attention and the cops will be called.

The alternatives to charging MP is to do nothing.



MOO

Even an elected judge has to follow the rules, or they risk being overturned.

You can say whatever you like on TV, it is what is said in court or under oath that counts however.

LE would still have to provide evidence that SG was engaged in prostitution. Opinions and suspicions are not evidence. And without that they would not be able to convict.

LE goes after streetwalkers partly because they are the visible face of prositution, but mostly because it is much easier to gather evidence in those cases, because they can observe what is going on. To convict an escort hey would have to either mount a sting, conduct a stakeout and raid, or rely on someone being willing to testify in court about it. In this case they have none of that.

 

[WINDSOR]

Is there anybody reading this thread who could talk to a New York State criminal lawyer or prosecuting attorney on an informal basis, regarding the chance that charges against MP would make it to trial?

Many of us have strong and valid opinions which are contradictory, so we need some legal expertise.

In the end it is up to the Suffolk County DA office on how they wish to proceed though.


MOO

 

[BKS]

Even an elected judge has to follow the rules, or they risk being overturned.

You can say whatever you like on TV, it is what is said in court or under oath that counts however.

LE would still have to provide evidence that SG was engaged in prostitution. Opinions and suspicions are not evidence. And without that they would not be able to convict.

LE goes after streetwalkers partly because they are the visible face of prositution, but mostly because it is much easier to gather evidence in those cases, because they can observe what is going on. To convict an escort hey would have to either mount a sting, conduct a stakeout and raid, or rely on someone being willing to testify in court about it. In this case they have none of that.

May 1st, 2010, a sex worker, prostitute, responds with her driver to Oak Beach which is often Ocean
Parkway in the Township of Babylon, and that's patrolled by the Marine Bureau." ~Commissioner Dormer, 12/15/2011~

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS121511.pdf

 

[Seaslug44]

The escort is no longer alive.

The client states that no money was ever exchanged and sex never happened.

The driver's story supports the client's.

 

[Seaslug44]

Also, does anyone else here acknowledge that in the grand scheme of things (and compared to all of the other characters in this case), MP could possibly be viewed by LE as one of the "Good Guys" (and the one who cared the most about SG the night she went missing)?

If that is the case, then why ever prosecute the good guy?

 

[BKS]

Honestly, why would MP be considered a good guy? He didn't even stay to help look for Shannon or to help the police find Shannon. He knew police were on their way. The only "good guy" in this cast of characters is Gus Coletti. Gus called the police and met them at the gate. Gus tried to help. Pak hauled *advertiser censored*.

 

[WINDSOR]

Seaslug,

I cannot believe anybody ever could consider MP as a 'good-guy'; possibly, one could call him slightly less evil than a serial killer.

MP is a middle aged man, who drives young women around to male clients who have hired these women for sexual conduct. He gets a percentage of the money these young women earn performing sexual acts for money.

Setting aside his occupation and criminal history for a minute.

If MP stayed at Oak Beach that morning and assisted and collaborated with the police officer who first responded, rather than running before the police arrived, one might say MP is a 'good guy'.

If MP did not chastise GC for calling 911, you might consider MP a 'good guy'.

If MP had not done something to cause SG fear him, and run from him, you might say MP is a 'good guy'

If MP when he returned to Oak Beach was able to contribute in some positive way in the search for SG, it might be said he was a 'good guy'. But his search effort seemed to consist of a conversation with CPH. He made no effort to find out where SG disappeared or look for her in the brush.

MP is part of this case, a big part of this case, I believe he has information and knowledge that can break this thing wide open.

What is our commitment to having this case resolved?

BTW Is this a career anybody would want their son to engage in?

MOO

 

[En Passant]

The escort is no longer alive.

The client states that no money was ever exchanged and sex never happened.

The driver's story supports the client's.

Can you show the Link that supports Drivers story supports clients (MONEY EXCHANGE PART), otherwise that would be Rumor mill material.

I do not think MP is a good guy, I do think he needs to be incarcerated & revoke passport. I think the whole value sysytem is of a criminal foundation.

I do not believe he killed SG as he had numberous occassions instead of while SG already alerted police. He would be under scrutiny whatever way you look at it & I doubt he would add murder to his long list. Does not make a bit of sense that he would cut off the hand that feeds him & Alex.

Do not see him as the SK.

I do see JB has the fixings, fits the profile & hired SG & inticed SG/Traffickers that a good amount of monies would be made. I believe it was more of Alex & MP to send SG & JB was the person who assualt/Aggressed on SG & used the same tactic the victims SK used....Money....

Why would ANYONE have the right to GRAB another from BEHIND?
NONE....unless LE or @ a hospital.

SG claimed JB & someone other than was going to KILL her....She was right she is deceased.....pretty much says enough.....

At this point it is about pressure on accomplices,the canary will sing.....I know pigeons Cooo, bet they sing too. If not I forsee accomplish in that mix.

IMO the security tapes would have shown what Gc did & did not do so he has changed varitions of his story, his emphiesis. That is now that PAK was REALLY mad & if he said that in that tone why was GC not concerned for his safety as well as his wife safety he left ALONE...while a Drugged up girl says HELP ME >>>HELP>>ME>>>>HELP ME....Some crazy guy who is chasing SG....why would pak not harm GC than knowing he saw him????

Because, GC in some way shape or form is responsible for SG Death. Wrongful Death Could very well apply to GC.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_death_claim"]Wrongful death claim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

There is not one "GOOD GUY" in the whole bunch...Not ONE!

The POLICE STATED Prostitution....water over bridge we established that...maybe thats what they will try to hang onto as a defense.

Won't last a nano second there are to many victims. Signed Sealed & Delivered.....

I do not understand why one hangs onto that thought....that will all come out in the wash I'm sure.

 

[Seaslug44]

What would you say if you someday learn that SG's 911 call contains recordings of conversations between MP and SG that support MP's innocence and clear him as a suspect?

And how would you feel if you someday learn that in exchange for his full cooperation, MP was granted immunity from any prosecution for his role in assisting SG meeting up with JB that evening?

 

[En Passant]

I would not be surprised, I think that is probable.....but one needs to have a lot of other circumstancial evidence that points in the same direction with all the same conclusions.

I think MP will be ripped apart by the defense as to his record & profession. So I do not see thats the reason for LE to make a deal. I think they want the story & get to bottom of it. I think preparing for trial is a whole other issue. They will use him but not persue JB on MPs info only....@ a trial, prosecution will only move ahead if they feel it is a slam dunk. They would not risk mistrial or jumping the gun, they will be thorough....IMO

I think every move made was a play by LE to let JB & Accomplices think they are stupid & they have messed up so much they don't have a chance of a conviction do to Reasonable doubt. That is where less than average IQ comes in...narcisistic people are above all & super duper intelligent, superior, They can not be questioned they get realllllll MAD. That is there demise always...easily breakable IMO.

I only think good things will come out of it, if every1 came forward that would work as justice will prevail. If they are responsible I suggest that they turn themselves in & plead for life in prison & segregate themselves from prison population....that would be the absolute best thing they can do at this point. Summer is coming & SK/s on the loose is not a popular tourist area. I remember David Berkowitz.....everyone was fearful.....town was a ghost town after dark.

 

[BKS]

What would you say if you someday learn that SG's 911 call contains recordings of conversations between MP and SG that support MP's innocence and clear him as a suspect?

And how would you feel if you someday learn that in exchange for his full cooperation, MP was granted immunity from any prosecution for his role in assisting SG meeting up with JB that evening?

I would say I hope he learned a lesson and stays out of trouble in the future or he will unfortunately wind up jail. If that's the case then he skirted the law this time.

 

[En Passant]

Hi WINDSOR, Two things I saw that might be different:

* JB also changed his place of residence, moving back to the neighborhood of his liquor store, and I think living with his mother - or a relative?

* We don't know if MP really was the last person to see Shannan. CPH told Mari that she had spent the night at his house and left in the morning. IMO believe he told Mari that as he did call her 2x.

;}

Sorry I may have missed something big it seems. But I thought it was 5:30 in the AM. When would SG have stayed at CPH that next day & night?

I am a bit confused, no offense but It was stated by MG that CPH called her & said SG was in his REHAB & was unable to give out Patients information do to privacy & Hippa laws.....that was all he could say.

So the night at his house was not about the going there with JB upon arrival SG arrival to OB @ around 2 am?

Just trying to understand I haven't heard that.

I have heard that CPH admits giving seditrive.

I have heard CPH called MG 2x denied it till 48 hours was going to blow that lie sky high.

Thats when his story changed....thats when many of his stories plummetted.


<modsnip>

 

[WINDSOR]

What would you say if you someday learn that SG's 911 call contains recordings of conversations between MP and SG that support MP's innocence and clear him as a suspect?

And how would you feel if you someday learn that in exchange for his full cooperation, MP was granted immunity from any prosecution for his role in assisting SG meeting up with JB that evening?

This is a very hypothetical question, and basically irrelevant for the following reasons.

If SG's call contained conversations that support MP's innocence, why did she refuse to get in the car with him and run away from him? Either the hypothetical conversation did not take place or something changed in the relationship between MP and SG after the conversation.

If LE granted MP immunity for his co-operation, what are the signs of his co-operation? Has he incriminated anyone, has he corroborated anybody else's incriminating evidence? LE usually grants immunity if the information and co-operation leads to charges, an arrest, testimony at trial or a conviction. In this case what has MP done that he has earned immunity for?

Based on what has happened so far in this case, it appears that if MP has received immunity already, it is to protect the guilty!

Here are some facts that are not hypothetical. MP drove SG to Oak Beach for purposes of prostitution. He had the expectation to share in the financial proceeds with SG. SG disappeared while MP was looking for her, he left before LE arrived. He had conversations with CPH and JB. He did not assist SG when she was calling 911 with the location. MP was upset when GC called 911.

There is is nothing that I can see in MP's past or his actions around the time of SG's demise, that earns him any special consideration. If in the future I am proven wrong I will apologize.


MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

Seaslug44 has posted some very interesting comments re MP and SG in Post # 499 of

Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

Check it out

 

[WINDSOR]

According to the Medical Examiner, results were deemed "inconclusive,"
http://babylonvillage.patch.com/articles/shannan-gilbert-s-cause-of-death-undetermined

We all have been waiting expectantly for the ME's results to bring us the big clue to solve this case. I think because they did not say drowning, there was other evidence that points to another possible cause of death. Which most of us sleuthers have been saying all along.

Chief Dormer and some others were proponents of the drowning theory.

This case has gone cold.

LE cannot find anybody to charge with any sort of criminal activity from that night two years ago.

LE cannot learn any information or discover any evidence from people who had contact with SG that night.

There appear to have no leads, and no ideas.

Well I have an idea, ask another Police force to help, either the State Police, or the FBI. Have some new investigators interview each participant, with a fresh attitude and some vigor.

You can believe the early investigators were less than enthused when the chief is telling the media 'she drowned' How motivated as a investigator would you be if the chief already solved the crime.

I still believe MP is a key witness. He knows a lot more about what went on than he has told. Ignore him and this case will never be solved.

MOO

 

[Tugela]

May 1st, 2010, a sex worker, prostitute, responds with her driver to Oak Beach which is often Ocean
Parkway in the Township of Babylon, and that's patrolled by the Marine Bureau." ~Commissioner Dormer, 12/15/2011~

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS121511.pdf

Being a sex worker, or being described as one, does not constitute evidence thatshe was doing that on that particular night.

There is no (zero) evidence to support that. To charge him they would need clear evidence, and they do not have it. Speculation is not evidence, even speculation by LE.