POI: Michael Pak

[deedee21]

Is that a boat access joke?
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Erie_Canal

Your silly.

 

[mcme]

The GB4 were closer to road, while the others were closer to the water.


http://altereddimensions.net/2012/long-island-serial-killer

The newest set of remains showed marked differences from the previous four victims. The bodies were not contained in burlap sacks, were placed a bit further from the road (not on the edge of the bramble but some thirty feet in from the highway), and had been there much longer than the first four bodies. Some of the victims had lain undiscovered for nearly a decade (later police would discover more bodies that had lain undiscovered for nearly 15 years).

Because of how they mow along the parkway, the brush is constantly moving closer to the roadway. It makes sense that the longer the body lay undiscovered, the deeper in the brush they would be, even if they were dumped in a similar manner.

 

[deedee21]

Because of how they mow along the parkway, the brush is constantly moving closer to the roadway. It makes sense that the longer the body lay undiscovered, the deeper in the brush they would be, even if they were dumped in a similar manner.

The last four victims were dumped right over the brush. How often do they mow? I wonder why they were not spotted. Do you know what dept. is responsible for mowing?

 

[twocuriouscats]

The last four victims were dumped right over the brush. How often do they mow? I wonder why they were not spotted. Do you know what dept. is responsible for mowing?

Really good point deedee and mcme. I never thought about it but the edges of the parkway have obviously been mowed (mown?) It's so hard to get a perspective living out here on the west Coast. Please tell us more...

I know it's the Pak thread but this reminds me of hearing about the mosquito abatement project that should have found Shannan (if she was there...)...right?

I guess the most obvious answer is they were not there to be found??? IDK...craziest case ever.

 

[Puggle]

Fieldnotes, I think you're confused about the mom and the Fire island Lady.

Mom's extremities were found only

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t-your-Theory-Profile&p=10885811#post10885811

The skull belongs to Fire Island Lady. Now, I have a question on that, I searched a lot but I couldn't find the answer.

Some sources say police officers just came accross the skull when they were walking the shore. On the other hand the sketch has hair, so that makes me think the head was in a bag or something. (that the hair was maintained)

My question is : Was the head/skull washed up or it was placed?

Anybody has info on that?

Yeah sorry for that...the confusion was mine.

Skull found (legs found fire island) other parts remain missing: found at Tobay Beach about a mile west of the "Mother of Toddler" remains which were found near Zachs Bay, Jones Beach.

So basically all the remains of all victims were found roadside..... few feet in from the brush.

Maintenance of the roadsides along ocean parkway are the responsibility of New York State Department of Transport since 1977.

Seems if we follow what is known to be the truth and not speculation.. The pattern for the older remains is the murderer.... dismembered the bodies - taking the torso predominately to Manorville and disposed of the heads, hands, feet predominately along ocean parkway.

The skull was found after a police officer spotted something that caught his eye whilst driving along ocean parkway ....I had the link about 20 minutes ago but didn't save it...grrr...Pretty sure it was in a plastic bag.... It was placed as it was found road side - no way it washed up... If I find the link again I'll post it.

In the past there was speculation that the legs found in Fire Island arrived there after storms... Seems rather magical to think these body parts which one would assume had been placed with or in close proximity to the skull (following a pattern) would have drifted through brush......manage to transverse all the small tributaries of South Oyster Bay and end up some 25 miles away..at Davis Park.

 

[Puggle]

Found it...

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...serial-killer-dumping-ground-article-1.124451

The thing I find interesting is the first bodies were found in December 2010...so the area is "Hot"... and then...3 months later... something just happens to catch this officers eye in an area already previously searched...with cadaver dogs no less...now up shows a skull. Dearly love to know the name of that officer.

 

[fieldnotes]

Found it...

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...serial-killer-dumping-ground-article-1.124451

The thing I find interesting is the first bodies were found in December 2010...so the area is "Hot"... and then...3 months later... something just happens to catch this officers eye in an area already previously searched...with cadaver dogs no less...now up shows a skull. Dearly love to know the name of that officer.

Which head was this one? Taylor's??

 

[Puggle]

Which head was this one? Taylor's??

No... this is the skull for one of the unidentified females. The way police have allocated Jane Doe numbers is really confusing - I really wished they had assigned them actual names.

If we were to go left to right across ocean parkway:

1. Body parts/jewellery (Toddlers Mum) Jones Beach/ Zachs Bay

2. Skull found (Legs found Fire Island) Tobay Beach/bird sanctuary

3. Gilgo 4

4. John Doe

5. Jessica Taylor

6. Unidentified female

7. Toddler

Here's a link with a map to all...except it doesn't include the legs found at Fire Island for some reason.... which is strange...if we are connecting all the bodies to be the work of the one killer - and the legs were the first body parts found in 1996 Pre dating any and all other finds...to me these were the most important find.

http://lostgirlsbook.com/case-map/

 

[twocuriouscats]

Thank you that is beautifully done... helps to have a visual.

May be of no importance but the one thing I felt... (Yeah that gut thing) was there was a systemic way the bodies were disposed off... Like the killer may put victims into some sort of category and assign a location accordingly...not sure why I feel this way....Also made me curious if the toddler had some significant value in the killer's mind as it appears to be the only victim (In the video at least) that was left next to a identifiable marker as in the "Emergency stopping only Sign".

BBM
Yeah, I kinda freaked when I saw that on greyhuze's video. I NEVER CAUGHT THAT BEFORE EITHER!!!! I think it's significant too Puggle. I've always wondered if that was LISK's child...Now I'm wondering how many other signs like that are on the parkway - very strange that - I can't remember seeing more signs...this is going to keep me awake tonight!

 

[fieldnotes]

No... this is the skull for one of the unidentified females. The way police have allocated Jane Doe numbers is really confusing - I really wished they had assigned them actual names.

If we were to go left to right across ocean parkway:

1. Body parts/jewellery (Toddlers Mum) Jones Beach/ Zachs Bay

2. Skull found (Legs found Fire Island) Tobay Beach/bird sanctuary

3. Gilgo 4

4. John Doe

5. Jessica Taylor

6. Unidentified female

7. Toddler

Here's a link with a map to all...except it doesn't include the legs found at Fire Island for some reason.... which is strange...if we are connecting all the bodies to be the work of the one killer - and the legs were the first body parts found in 1996 Pre dating any and all other finds...to me these were the most important find.

http://lostgirlsbook.com/case-map/

My problem with Kolker's map is that it seems to suggest the Mother of toddler is JD 6 (or Manorville 2000) which it is not. Go to the Kolker map and hover over "Unidentified Human Remains" on Nassau side and read how he incorrectly connects them to Manorville. But it's really not Kolker's fault; the problem is the Mother isn't in NamUs.

And the date of the article you cite is March but the Nassau finds weren't until April. So I think it has to be Jessica Taylor, no?

 

[mysteryattic]

Why do you think lisk moved from plastic bags to burlap? I can't help but think that his evolving method of disposal says something about our killer.

 

[fred&edna]

Found it...

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...serial-killer-dumping-ground-article-1.124451

The thing I find interesting is the first bodies were found in December 2010...so the area is "Hot"... and then...3 months later... something just happens to catch this officers eye in an area already previously searched...with cadaver dogs no less...now up shows a skull. Dearly love to know the name of that officer.

I'm all kinds of confused. Is the skull mentioned in your link (NY Daily News dated March 2011), the same skull mentioned here (NYTimes, April 2011). If so, both officers (and Blue) are mentioned in the NY Times report.

""By 1:20 p.m. that December day, the officer and Blue had recovered two more bodies.

“It couldn’t have been colder and windier,” he said. “You didn’t feel any of that. The adrenaline just took over.”

Months later, last Monday, as the search expanded to Nassau County, Officer Mallia, Blue and Joe Grella, an officer with the Nassau County Police Department’s bureau of special operations, were assigned to search a section of brush just west of the Suffolk line.

“We came through some thick brush and we saw it together,” Officer Mallia said. “It looked like a skull on top of a bag. Right away, we knew what it was.”"



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/n...bodies-key-role-for-officer-and-dog.html?_r=0




** ETA: I don't think this could be the same skull as there is nearly a month difference in the news reports.

Too many bodies and body parts and so many dates

 

[fieldnotes]

The video Gray Hughs made has the dates and is helpful with this too. It's the GB4 in December then Taylor on March 29th, the Asian, Infant, JD 6 on April 4th and then on April 11/12th they find Fire Island head (skull on top of bag) and Mother's remains.

And then, actually, two weeks later they go back to where the Fire Island head was found and recover more teeth.

 

[Puggle]

The video Gray Hughs made has the dates and is helpful with this too. It's the GB4 in December then Taylor on March 29th, the Asian, Infant, JD 6 on April 4th and then on April 11/12th they find Fire Island head (skull on top of bag) and Mother's remains.

And then, actually, two weeks later they go back to where the Fire Island head was found and recover more teeth.

Yes...I think the confusion has been solved...thanks Fieldnotes

Wonder if Gray Hughs would consider adding to his video. It really does help to visualise it... for me personally anyway....I think all the different date/finds got me confused....

like Fred&Edna said too many body parts!!!

 

[Puggle]

Why do you think lisk moved from plastic bags to burlap? I can't help but think that his evolving method of disposal says something about our killer.

I'd say it was because he wasn't dismembering them anymore.... plastic bags for small pieces...Burlap to wrap up whole bodies.

Why he changed from dismembering to leaving the bodies intact is interesting though.

 

[fieldnotes]

Yes...I think the confusion has been solved...thanks Fieldnotes

Wonder if Gray Hughs would consider adding to his video. It really does help to visualise it... for me personally anyway....I think all the different date/finds got me confused....

like Fred&Edna said too many body parts!!!

I think it might even be worth it to make a Google Earth film thread in the hopes Gray Hughs or others in the future would make more. It really does help to have that perspective!!!!

 

[mysteryattic]

""I'd say it was because he wasn't dismembering them anymore.... plastic bags for small pieces...Burlap to wrap up whole bodies.

Why he changed from dismembering to leaving the bodies intact is interesting though"

Perhaps our killer was fearful of being tied to his victims with his earlier crimes. Maybe he grew more confident in his ability to get away with the murders or maybe he got more confident in his ability to handle an intact body.

 

[marble]

Or maybe he bought a larger vehicle/storage container

 

[PickleChris]

Or maybe he got cocky realizing that no one found all the other treasure 'pieces' and just stopped doing it. I don't think he took pleasure in dismembering them, I feel it was to avoid getting caught. Once he realized no one was finding anything he just wrapped the bodies and tossed them in the brush. That is IF they are all from the same killer. I still have my doubts on that.

 

[Theforeigner]

Why are all the last many, interesting yes but totally OFF TOPIC, posts in the Michael Pak thread ?

Could a moderator maybe move them to the right thread?