Poll - Was Cindy source for Chloroform?

[Tuffy]

I really doubt that Cindy had access to chloroform. From my limited research on the web, I haven't found any reason to think that chloroform is used regularly in the health care setting these days.
It was banned from consumer use in 1976. Small amounts of it can be a fatal dose, causing sudden cardiac arrest. If this one clinic Cindy worked at for some reason needed to use chloroform, I think it would not just left out. If it came up missing, it would be a big deal. Its not like stealing cotton balls or pens from the office.
It was mentioned on this website some time ago that tattoo artists still use chloroform though. I honestly doubt this too. It seems unlikely that a tattoo artist would try to use something so dangerous, when there are other legal options available.

 

[Vera_75]

There was an MD on Nancy Grace, last week, who stated that chloroform was used as a cleaning agent, as well as alcohol. Nancy questioned him to the effect that she thought that chloroform was used to sedate patients for surgery.

He confirmed this, and said it was used a long time ago, and he further stated that chloroform is not available to the general public, as it is a recognized carcinogen. He went on to say that chloroform would be only found in labs. He also stated that Cindy would not have access to chloroform as a nurse.

I do not think the Cindy was the source of the chloroform. It's still my opinion that Casey cooked it up, at home, after searching the internet for recipes. Casey is trying to heap more guilt on Cindy, with her comment. IMO Casey hates her mother, and wants her to suffer. She also hates her father, and if she can come up with something to guilt him further in connection with Caley's death, she will do it. Casey is a disgusting human being!

 

[debbie0604]

IMO Casey is mixing some truth with her lies. I don't believe for one minute that she obtained chloroform from CA. From what I remember CA worked for a home health agency and there is no way she would have any access to chloroform there.

It's my opinion that while there hasn't been much information given about "how she used the chloroform on Caylee", it's not necessarily the "chloroform" that she said she obtained from Cindy" but the syringe that was found in the bag at the crime scene that I suspect was what she REALLY obtained from Cindy without her knowledge. My opinion is that KC made up the chloroform herself with a recipe from the internet, and used the syringe that she obtained from her mother's stuff. My opinion also is that it possibly was a weak batch of chloroform.

Chloroform to my knowledge cannot be obtained even in a hospital setting. KC would have had to make up her own batch herself as evidenced in the gatorade bottle. Otherwise, IMO, there would be no search engine references for "making of chloroform" as found on her computer hard drive. JMO. :furious:

 

[debbie0604]

I voted "No" in the poll. Cindy worked in the office of Gentiva, which is a home-health care service, in which nurses visit patients in their home who are recovering from illness or surgery, often elderly patients.

Cindy was in the administrative end rather than hands-on, so I don't think she would routinely have access to drugs. Also, I don't think Chloroform would be a drug stocked by the company. It's my understanding that chloroform is not a widely used drug today.

I think to the best of my recollection, CA was a "nurse manager." My friend is a nurse manager of a home health agency as well and nurse managers also have to take call whenever they are short staffed. CA would have medical supplies (i.e. syringes, medications, etc.) on hand and possibly in a bag if she is taking call. My friend used to bring her bag home with her but keep it locked up in her car in her locked garage. As far as having chloroform? No chloroform... never had chloroform. A home health nurse would have no use for it, and to my knowledge, that's not available anymore in medical settings.

 

[LinasK]

I really doubt that Cindy had access to chloroform. From my limited research on the web, I haven't found any reason to think that chloroform is used regularly in the health care setting these days.
It was banned from consumer use in 1976. Small amounts of it can be a fatal dose, causing sudden cardiac arrest. If this one clinic Cindy worked at for some reason needed to use chloroform, I think it would not just left out. If it came up missing, it would be a big deal. Its not like stealing cotton balls or pens from the office.
It was mentioned on this website some time ago that tattoo artists still use chloroform though. I honestly doubt this too. It seems unlikely that a tattoo artist would try to use something so dangerous, when there are other legal options available.

F.Y.I., that part wasn't true- Cindy wasn't working in a clinic, it was a Home Health Agency, and any drugs they might keep on the premises, would be locked up tight in a special closet. Cindy as an RN and Case Manager, probably would have a key to that closet, but I do agree that Gentiva would have no reason to stock Chloroform!

 

[seagull65]

If Casey ever had chloroform I think it's unlikely that she got it from Cindy. I think it would be more available through drug dealers or manufacturers of illicit drugs.

 

[JDzWife]

We know that KC dropped Caylee off at CA's work quite a bit. It made me wonder too if it was possible KC had stolen the chloroform from Cindy's work??

But we also know there were searches done on the home computer on how to make chloroform. KC doesn't strike me as very smart, but I do think she is capable of making her own concoction, JMO, of course.

 

[LinasK]

We know that KC dropped Caylee off at CA's work quite a bit. It made me wonder too if it was possible KC had stolen the chloroform from Cindy's work??

But we also know there were searches done on the home computer on how to make chloroform. KC doesn't strike me as very smart, but I do think she is capable of making her own concoction, JMO, of course.

No, because they wouldn't stock it, and any meds that could be stolen would be under lock and key. Casey wouldn't have access. Cindy would have a key though...

 

[Harmony 2]

JT says he saw Casey and Caylee at Walmart on June 16th. He also said he saw Casey walking out holding a small bag in her hand. How difficult would it be to purchase alcohol, acetone and peroxide? These are the ingredients Casey googled in March when searching information on how to make chloroform.

I can't visualize her making it but it does not seem like it would be difficult to just pour a little of each ingredient in a bottle.

 

[spyhouston]

OK y'all, I have a confession to make. The day I voted in this poll, I voted yes. I was so disgusted with CA for the way she has behaved in this case, and I clicked yes. But then I was sorry because I really don't believe she knowingly would have ever provided the chloraform to KC, and I can't even imagine why on earth she would have ever brought it home. So, I am sorry I voted this way. I think I usually have pretty good common sense, but somehow I just let myself try to get back at CA a little by voting against her. Whew, I feel a little better now. Thanks.

 

[Amil]

We know that KC dropped Caylee off at CA's work quite a bit. It made me wonder too if it was possible KC had stolen the chloroform from Cindy's work??

But we also know there were searches done on the home computer on how to make chloroform. KC doesn't strike me as very smart, but I do think she is capable of making her own concoction, JMO, of course.

I thought the computer evidence showed that the Anthony computer was only on the chloroform website for less than a minute even though she may have visited several sites. I doubt she made chloroform at all.

 

[joypath]

JT says he saw Casey and Caylee at Walmart on June 16th. He also said he saw Casey walking out holding a small bag in her hand. How difficult would it be to purchase alcohol, acetone and peroxide? These are the ingredients Casey googled in March when searching information on how to make chloroform.

I can't visualize her making it but it does not seem like it would be difficult to just pour a little of each ingredient in a bottle.

Physically: not difficult "to just pour a little of each ingredient in a bottle". BTW: the ingredients are bleach (hypochlorite) and acetone. Safetywise: extremely dangerous.

The biochemical reaction of the reagents (ingredients) to make chloroform (CHCl3) are exothermic (give off heat) and ice is required to lower the reaction chamber temperature (surround the bottle/flask/glass cup with LOTS of ice). PLUS you have to be careful of the gases (fumes/smells) that mix with the O2 (oxygen) in the air creating phosgene, could get you sick or even knocked out (not up, no sperm!:blushing. Oh yeah, another problem: the mixture has to be in a 1:50 ratio (measured, not just randomly poured!) and the temperature needs to stay low and requires watching (NOT texting or cellphone chatting!), the reaction time is about a half hour (again, not texting from chatty casey). The real "feat" in this entire production of homemade brew is the retreival from the reaction chamber vessel; it requires the skill set of an individual capable of manipulating a separation funnel!

HUH? Separation funnel? Think turkey baster shape, hole at the top with a stopper, hole at the bottom for stuff to flow out and a stopcock (kinda like a trafic light for the liquid flow) in the middle of the glass cylindar. Now this means that our ever careful,thoughtful,meticulous Casey has to control the flow of the liquid from the mixture that she "carefully made" and just save the white "stuff" ! Oh yeah, she also has to transfer the mixture from the reaction chamber to the separatiion funnel without screwing up the entire experiment!

NOPE

 

[Harmony 2]

Thank you Joypath for your input...

I sure would like an explanation for all the chloroform and coincidences having to do with chloroform in this case...

Pg.7/6557 LIBS

page 16 LIBS

pg.14

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...y-anthony-documents-102408,0,5346622.htmlpage

pg 37- chart showing only chloroform on trunk liner and spare tire cover
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...eports-car-trunk/1/lg/11208-11280_Page_37.htm

As noted above chloroform is not common in commercial products. Moreover, there were no other chemicals found so no cleaners were used. If the trunk was cleaned with a wet vac (using water) then why were dirt samples and dirt residue found.

Dirt samples and dirt residue from trunk- Q14, Q15, Q17 page 5/11212
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...eports-car-trunk/1/lg/11208-11280_Page_05.htm

then the coincidences having to do with chloroform:
1) on Ricardo’s myspace
2) several General Hospital clips about chloroform in the proximate timeframe (GH one of Casey’s favorite shows-AZlawyer posted this on another thread)
3) searches for ‘how to make chloroform’
4) Casey mentioning it to Tracy

 

[Harmony 2]

FYI

Chloroform cannot be purchased over the counter and is highly regulated by governmental regulations. A person using chloroform for sleep has probably acquired the substance illegally, or is using it for a purpose other than what it was sold for. Not only is this illegal but, since chloroform can be a harmful substance when used improperly, this can also be a very dangerous scenario.

Chloroform will indeed assist people in falling into an unconscious state, but it is certainly not the safest and most effective method.

The only way to obtain chloroform is to obtain it for academic reasons – such as for a science class or research – or for industrial use with a license. The average consumer cannot acquire chloroform using easily accessible methods.

http://sleep.lovetoknow.com/Chloroform_for_Sleep

 

[ZsaZsa]

Physically: not difficult "to just pour a little of each ingredient in a bottle". BTW: the ingredients are bleach (hypochlorite) and acetone. Safetywise: extremely dangerous.

The biochemical reaction of the reagents (ingredients) to make chloroform (CHCl3) are exothermic (give off heat) and ice is required to lower the reaction chamber temperature (surround the bottle/flask/glass cup with LOTS of ice). PLUS you have to be careful of the gases (fumes/smells) that mix with the O2 (oxygen) in the air creating phosgene, could get you sick or even knocked out (not up, no sperm!:blushing. Oh yeah, another problem: the mixture has to be in a 1:50 ratio (measured, not just randomly poured!) and the temperature needs to stay low and requires watching (NOT texting or cellphone chatting!), the reaction time is about a half hour (again, not texting from chatty casey). The real "feat" in this entire production of homemade brew is the retreival from the reaction chamber vessel; it requires the skill set of an individual capable of manipulating a separation funnel!

HUH? Separation funnel? Think turkey baster shape, hole at the top with a stopper, hole at the bottom for stuff to flow out and a stopcock (kinda like a trafic light for the liquid flow) in the middle of the glass cylindar. Now this means that our ever careful,thoughtful,meticulous Casey has to control the flow of the liquid from the mixture that she "carefully made" and just save the white "stuff" ! Oh yeah, she also has to transfer the mixture from the reaction chamber to the separatiion funnel without screwing up the entire experiment!

NOPE

Yes, there were lots of good reasons that Chloroform went out of medical use decades ago- you just enumerated a few. There is no way KC would be capable of making that concoction IMO. If it is 'out there' in popular use on the drug scene ( people make all manner of volatile solutions nowadays it seems) then that might be a way to procure it, but I just don't see her being a Chemistry Whiz...

 

[Melanie]

Absolutely not. Cindy did not work in a clinic she worked in an office when she was working.
Chloroform is no longer used, it hasn't been used for decades. Casey is a certified nutcase and a hopeless liar.

Woo hoo - bang on! Casey makes it sound like Chloroform was a staple in a doctors office. It's not even used for surgery, including dental. What a stretch!

Quote:

Chloroform use had higher risks than those associated with ether, and it called for greater skill from the physician. Neither ether nor chloroform are used in surgery today.

 

[Melanie]

While Chloroform seems relatively easy to make -- would there be any residue somewhere at the house? She would need the following:

- bleach
- pure acetone
- a separation funnel
- protective gear (gloves, eye protection).
- chloroform should always be stored in an amber or brown glass bottle. Never in a plastic (gatorade) or metal container

Of course the article goes on to say this is for educational purposes only. Chloroform use had higher risks than those associated with ether, and it called for greater skill from the physician. Neither ether nor chloroform are used in surgery today.

If Caysey in fact MADE chloroform, there should have been traces on her in the early days (obviously too late now).

Do you think she would actualy make it?

MOO

Melanie

 

[ZsaZsa]

I don't think KC was capable of making Chloroform, but if she were, why bother when you can buy sleeping pills, Benadryl, any number of OTC meds that would put a toddler into a deep sleep. I don't get it.
If it was used at all I think it was for her own drug/party purposes..

 

[Txstrace]

Cindy worked for a home health agency. I have worked for multiple home health agencies for the last 15 years. Never have I seen anything remotely resembling Chloroform in any office that I've been in. Furthermore, after asking many family members in various medical related professions, none of them have seen it or heard of it being used in the last 20-30 years. I think that this had to be created by Casey if it was in fact used. I'm still not convinced that it was used anywhere.

 

[Aedrys]

We know that KC dropped Caylee off at CA's work quite a bit. It made me wonder too if it was possible KC had stolen the chloroform from Cindy's work??

But we also know there were searches done on the home computer on how to make chloroform. KC doesn't strike me as very smart, but I do think she is capable of making her own concoction, JMO, of course.

I don't know what kind of home health agency CA worked for and what rules they had, but my mom worked for a same day surgery clinic, and their drugs were in a locked cabinet. To get any out, you had write down what you were taking and basically sign your name to it. This way, if too many drugs went missing, you were caught red handed.

You also had to have special permission to even get to the recovery room of the clinic where the drugs were kept. I don't think there's any way Casey could have stolen drugs from her mom's work. You can't just waltz in and take and drugs like it's a candy store, and Casey is not that good a liar to get special permission to be near a drug cabinet. I don't think her mom would allow her to go anywhere near a drug cabinet at CA's work anyway.

That's all moot anyway because no clinic or agency I know of would just have chloroform on hand anymore. If she used chloroform, she made her own batch of it, or heck, may have had friends help her make a batch and lied about what she was making it for. Maybe the next party was going to be a "make friends with chloroform" party. Who knows.