Poll: Was Shannan Gilbert Murdered?

[mcme]

But that's probably what happened. Look at the behavior. SG paranoid and running around all over the place, JB and the drifter basically invisible after SG stormed out of the house and Pak is the one who searches. I think, it speaks volumes, that JB wasn't looking for her. This thing was about to give him a lot of bad reputation and he jut stays at home on his sofa? Why? Maybe because he wasn't too able anymore to care or to do anything else?

As to why JB did nothing more after SG left, He'd just spent quite a bit of time trying to get someone who was acting strange and refusing to leave his house, to get the heck out. After she left, and then MP's car left, how could he have known she wasn't in the car with MP back on their way to where they came from? The first he heard something was amiss was when MP and SG's boyfriend called a day or so later.

 

[BKS]

As to why JB did nothing more after SG left, He'd just spent quite a bit of time trying to get someone who was acting strange and refusing to leave his house, to get the heck out. After she left, and then MP's car left, how could he have known she wasn't in the car with MP back on their way to where they came from? The first he heard something was amiss was when MP and SG's boyfriend called a day or so later.

And the fact that he had grabbed her from behind (according to Pak), scared her, refused to pay her and had hired her for the night, probably were the main reasons he hid from police and made no efforts to get involved further. He just wanted all the problems he created to go away . I wonder what would have happened if he had just paid her as promised? Probably none of this would have happened. Shannan would still be alive and chances are GB4 would still be laying in Gilgo undiscovered.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Not necessarily. It depends on the depth of the water the body was submerged in. Even if she was partially submerged it probably would have cut back on the odor quite a bit. Things underwater tend not to smell to those above the surface. At least not to someone 100 yards away.

Add to that the almost permanent breeze from the sea.

 

[Peter Brendt]

As to why JB did nothing more after SG left, He'd just spent quite a bit of time trying to get someone who was acting strange and refusing to leave his house, to get the heck out. After she left, and then MP's car left, how could he have known she wasn't in the car with MP back on their way to where they came from? The first he heard something was amiss was when MP and SG's boyfriend called a day or so later.

I don't know about you, but if someone who showed already paranoid behavior storms pass me out of my house, I would at least make sure, that person is actually in that car.
And the idea, that MP went after SG without even asking JB what happened, after SG stormed out and ran pass the car, would indicate MP would have been used to that kind of trouble. I mean, it's like he sits in his SUV, suddenly the door opens and SG races out, pass his car and runs off. If he was surprised, it would have been only human to go and ask JB what happened, unless he just moaned "not again" because something like that would happen all the time. So chances, Brewer knew, she wasn't in that car, are pretty high.

 

[Peter Brendt]

And the fact that he had grabbed her from behind (according to Pak), scared her, refused to pay her and had hired her for the night, probably were the main reasons he hid from police and made no efforts to get involved further. He just wanted all the problems he created to go away . I wonder what would have happened if he had just paid her as promised? Probably none of this would have happened. Shannan would still be alive and chances are GB4 would still be laying in Gilgo undiscovered.

Probably so. But still, after the cat was out of the bag (after the 911 call it was clear, police would come), his interest should have been damage control. That would have included to find SG to present her alive to the LEO to make sure, to prove the allegation, he tried to kill her, was just wrong.
On the other hand, maybe things are different in Long Island? The LEO wasn't informed about SGs 911 call, only about the calls other neighbor made? Someone mentioned here something like that? That means, someone missed obviously the fact, an appealingly disoriented woman was running around in the area who could be endangered (not by wannabe murderers, but simply because there was marsh and an ocean around). The LEO acted more like he had been called to some kind of party with too loud music or a domestic violence call.

 

[hawkshaw]

If you folks want to get some background and flavor about Oak Beach, I suggest you read a book called: Scandal at the Oak Beach Inn.

Robert W.Matherson, with George Carpozi, and Rosanne Rousseau.Libray# 320.9747M.

 

[BKS]

If you folks want to get some background and flavor about Oak Beach, I suggest you read a book called: Scandal at the Oak Beach Inn.

Robert W.Matherson, with George Carpozi, and Rosanne Rousseau.Libray# 320.9747M.

Or for quicker reference just Google Scandal at Oak Beach Inn. There is also a Newsday
Series of articles written in 1999 telling the story of longtime corruption of public officials in Suffolk County. I'm on my mobile right now and can't add links but will when I have my computer. If someone else can attach those links, please. Happy reading. Thanks Hawkshaw! This gives me a much better understanding of your point of view.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Or for quicker reference just Google Scandal at Oak Beach Inn. There is also a Newsday
Series of articles written in 1999 telling the story of longtime corruption of public officials in Suffolk County. I'm on my mobile right now and can't add links but will when I have my computer. If someone else can attach those links, please. Happy reading. Thanks Hawkshaw! This gives me a much better understanding of your point of view.

This is the Wiki:
Oak Beach Inn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not very extensive

That's the link at Amazon:
Amazon.com: Scandal at the Oak Beach Inn: Political Corruption Vs. Long Island's Hottest Nightclub (9781569801338): Robert W. Matherson, George Carpozi, Rosanne M. Rousseau: [email]Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com[/email]/images/I/218QXV1W5VL.@@AMEPARAM@@218QXV1W5VL
One reviewer calls it a HUGE ego filled tirade, but well written

As it looks, some politicians shut down the club because they didn't get their share. Other allegations claim, it was the mob who was behind it. There was arson, but no arsonist was ever caught (at least that is what I could find in the short time). And while the book was printed in 1999 (13 years and how many power changes ago?) the real story started already in 1969 when Robert Matherson, who later was one of the authors, bought the first club. So, these clubs (in fact, there were five of them in LI), worked for ab. 30 years. One of those clubs burned down after some years. None of the rumors, mainly stemming from Matherson himself, could be proven and by all means, the clubs operated for almost thirty years ...
So yes, it appears, it actually gives a flavor of Long Island and it's culture of slander an unproven allegations.

 

[mcme]

Probably so. But still, after the cat was out of the bag (after the 911 call it was clear, police would come), his interest should have been damage control. That would have included to find SG to present her alive to the LEO to make sure, to prove the allegation, he tried to kill her, was just wrong.
On the other hand, maybe things are different in Long Island? The LEO wasn't informed about SGs 911 call, only about the calls other neighbor made? Someone mentioned here something like that? That means, someone missed obviously the fact, an appealingly disoriented woman was running around in the area who could be endangered (not by wannabe murderers, but simply because there was marsh and an ocean around). The LEO acted more like he had been called to some kind of party with too loud music or a domestic violence call.

Damage control from what? The state police,who SG was on the phone with, didn't know where she was and couldn't send anyone. I'd guess that once SG ran out the door, JB breathed a sigh of relief, said good riddance and went to bed. He had no way of knowing about her visit to GC or BB, or any additional 911 calls.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Damage control from what? The state police,who SG was on the phone with, didn't know where she was and couldn't send anyone.

But the hypothetical killer couldn't know that. And neither could JB. Remember what John Ray said in that 48 Hours episode.

I'd guess that once SG ran out the door, JB breathed a sigh of relief, said good riddance and went to bed. He had no way of knowing about her visit to GC or BB, or any additional 911 calls.

All he would have known is, a prostitute he had ordered via the internet was running lose in Oak Beach. That would have been enough incentive to get control over the situation again.

 

[mcme]

But the hypothetical killer couldn't know that. And neither could JB. Remember what John Ray said in that 48 Hours episode.



All he would have known is, a prostitute he had ordered via the internet was running lose in Oak Beach. That would have been enough incentive to get control over the situation again.

I wonder how he could know she was running loose in Oak Beach. She ran out the door to the outside, her driver was outside, the drivers SUV drove away, it was over to him at that point in my opinion. Didn't MP say he and her boyfriend called him a day or so later, told him what happened and asked if he knew/heard anything?

As to the address/location part, if he was there for her 911 call, he knew she didn't know where she was and didn't give an address.

 

[hawkshaw]

I hear so many theories I am getting a headache from reading them. The crazy thing about it is one or more of the posters might be right.

Let me illustrate with a story and show the readers how anything can happen. Very simple and it happened in Brooklyn. I know the detectives that worked on it. We just happened to go to Hollywood together and shared stories. That is why we went there, i.e., Hollywood wanted stories.

Very simple case: A regular gal is found found raped and dead. She has semen all over her body etc., There are 8 samples of semen on inside and out of her body.

She was raped by only one man. What do you think happened?

Answer - tomorrow.

 

[hawkshaw]

Ready for another puzzler? Try and figure this out as to what happened and why it happened.

We get to this house where two middle-aged men are killed. Both of their heads are cut off. One guy is put in a rocking chair with two heads in his lap. He is facing the TV, which is on. This was in October.

Both me were soon learned to have been homosexuals.

The other guy is on the floor at the feet of the guy in the chair. He has a pinkie cut off and it is placed under his arm.

We have an idea who the killer is. We catch him in less than 24 hours because we made a mistake and went to the wrong house and got the right information from that house.

Question? Why did these men killed? Why did he put the heads in the lap of one of the dead guys facing the TV? Why did he cut off a pinky and put it under the arm of the dead guy on the floor?

Here is another one: legit man is sitting in his car repair shop and two men come in and shoot him. The victim has no record of any importance. Neither of the two men demand money. One of them shoots the man and they both flee.

Why did the two men go there? What did the victim do that provoked one of them to shoot and kill him?

THESE ARE ALL TRUE STORIES. I point these out to you to show you that nothing is impossible. You can speculate until the cows come home and if you get the answer - you won't, it will make no sense to you.

I believe I wrote these mystery stories before. If you read them before, be honest.


Tomorrow.

 

[genericwhitemale]

I hear so many theories I am getting a headache from reading them. The crazy thing about it is one or more of the posters might be right.

Let me illustrate with a story and show the readers how anything can happen. Very simple and it happened in Brooklyn. I know the detectives that worked on it. We just happened to go to Hollywood together and shared stories. That is why we went there, i.e., Hollywood wanted stories.

Very simple case: A regular gal is found found raped and dead. She has semen all over her body etc., There are 8 samples of semen on inside and out of her body.

She was raped by only one man. What do you think happened?

Answer - tomorrow.

Necrophilia?

 

[Justiceforever]

I hear so many theories I am getting a headache from reading them. The crazy thing about it is one or more of the posters might be right.

Let me illustrate with a story and show the readers how anything can happen. Very simple and it happened in Brooklyn. I know the detectives that worked on it. We just happened to go to Hollywood together and shared stories. That is why we went there, i.e., Hollywood wanted stories.

Very simple case: A regular gal is found found raped and dead. She has semen all over her body etc., There are 8 samples of semen on inside and out of her body.

She was raped by only one man. What do you think happened?

Answer - tomorrow.

She willingly had sex with seven of the men, the other man raped her.,

 

[Peter Brendt]

I wonder how he could know she was running loose in Oak Beach. She ran out the door to the outside, her driver was outside, the drivers SUV drove away, it was over to him at that point in my opinion. Didn't MP say he and her boyfriend called him a day or so later, told him what happened and asked if he knew/heard anything?

As to the address/location part, if he was there for her 911 call, he knew she didn't know where she was and didn't give an address.

To me that part sounds fishy, to you, it sounds okay. So, we have to agree to disagree in this point.

 

[hawkshaw]

SORRY FOR THE GAME PLAYING. I just wanted to make a point to show you folks the answers are infinite and no sane human being can come up with the answer:

1. The case where the two men had their heads cut off.

The two older Queens invited a younger man for dinner. The young guy thought the older guys 'turned' his father. He has dinner. Kills both men. He knew they were big baseball fans. The World Series was on. He put the both heads in one lap because he knew they were big fans and he didn't want them to miss the game.

The pinkie under the arm. He said he knew this would drive the cops crazy trying to figure out why. It didn't bother me at all. Chopping off 2 heads and putting them in the lap of one of them was nutty enough for me. But the guy was right because the other guys were going nuts.

2. The guy in the auto shop. Two guys went in to rob the place. Just a simple robbery. They were so high they forgot why they went there. One nut job can't figure out why and puts his gun on the upper right arm of the victim and screams: "Now you die." Fires the gun....bullet goes thru the arm and into the body. The crack heads escape. Only pure luck with a little of good police work closes the case.

3. Saved the best one for last: The nut job killer was paying hookers $5.00 for used condoms. The deal was to ask their customer for the condom or pick it up when it was discarded. He bought 8 of them. Kills the gal and sprinkles the semen of the 8 used condoms on the body. Never did get the rest of the story as to WHY this nut job did it. It didn't matter why he did it, it only mattered he did it.


I tell you the above to try to demonstrate there are NO answers in most cases that a reasonable and sane person can come to in a case like LISK.

 

[Peter Brendt]

SORRY FOR THE GAME PLAYING. I just wanted to make a point to show you folks the answers are infinite and no sane human being can come up with the answer:

1. The case where the two men had their heads cut off.

The two older Queens invited a younger man for dinner. The young guy thought the older guys 'turned' his father. He has dinner. Kills both men. He knew they were big baseball fans. The World Series was on. He put the both heads in one lap because he knew they were big fans and he didn't want them to miss the game.

The pinkie under the arm. He said he knew this would drive the cops crazy trying to figure out why. It didn't bother me at all. Chopping off 2 heads and putting them in the lap of one of them was nutty enough for me. But the guy was right because the other guys were going nuts.

2. The guy in the auto shop. Two guys went in to rob the place. Just a simple robbery. They were so high they forgot why they went there. One nut job can't figure out why and puts his gun on the upper right arm of the victim and screams: "Now you die." Fires the gun....bullet goes thru the arm and into the body. The crack heads escape. Only pure luck with a little of good police work closes the case.

3. Saved the best one for last: The nut job killer was paying hookers $5.00 for used condoms. The deal was to ask their customer for the condom or pick it up when it was discarded. He bought 8 of them. Kills the gal and sprinkles the semen of the 8 used condoms on the body. Never did get the rest of the story as to WHY this nut job did it. It didn't matter why he did it, it only mattered he did it.


I tell you the above to try to demonstrate there are NO answers in most cases that a reasonable and sane person can come to in a case like LISK.

So, you say, as long as nobody asks the right questions the riddles are unsolvable and therefore nobody should ask the right questions? Somehow this whole riddle idea is a bit off the case here, but well, nothing about a little play time.

Number one turned out to be some kind of hate crime, which was obvious after someone looked in the victim's background. But of course, that part wasn't included in your riddle. So ... after asking the right questions, the riddle was obviously solvable. I mean, police got the guy, didn't they? So all this story proves is the importance of victimology.

Number two: No robbery made everyone think of course of a personal motive. But you didn't tell about other crime scene details. Obviously police got those two also, after asking the right questions, so this one was only unsolvable because you left essential information out. Which underlines, how important details can be.

Number three: It matters. After all, the crime scene showed sperm from 8 donors. So at this point, either it was a gangrape or forensic counter measure. But then you added, only one raped her, which is a hindsight information. So, obviously, police caught that guy. Means, there had to be at least one other details, that made someone ask the right questions.

So all three cases were solved because someone asked the right questions. To dismiss all theorizing and therefore all asking, didn't solve any of those cases, right?

 

[BKS]

SORRY FOR THE GAME PLAYING. I just wanted to make a point to show you folks the answers are infinite and no sane human being can come up with the answer:

1. The case where the two men had their heads cut off.

The two older Queens invited a younger man for dinner. The young guy thought the older guys 'turned' his father. He has dinner. Kills both men. He knew they were big baseball fans. The World Series was on. He put the both heads in one lap because he knew they were big fans and he didn't want them to miss the game.

The pinkie under the arm. He said he knew this would drive the cops crazy trying to figure out why. It didn't bother me at all. Chopping off 2 heads and putting them in the lap of one of them was nutty enough for me. But the guy was right because the other guys were going nuts.

2. The guy in the auto shop. Two guys went in to rob the place. Just a simple robbery. They were so high they forgot why they went there. One nut job can't figure out why and puts his gun on the upper right arm of the victim and screams: "Now you die." Fires the gun....bullet goes thru the arm and into the body. The crack heads escape. Only pure luck with a little of good police work closes the case.

3. Saved the best one for last: The nut job killer was paying hookers $5.00 for used condoms. The deal was to ask their customer for the condom or pick it up when it was discarded. He bought 8 of them. Kills the gal and sprinkles the semen of the 8 used condoms on the body. Never did get the rest of the story as to WHY this nut job did it. It didn't matter why he did it, it only mattered he did it.


I tell you the above to try to demonstrate there are NO answers in most cases that a reasonable and sane person can come to in a case like LISK.

Hawkshaw, thanks for lesson on insanity. I agree, we don't need to spend all of our time trying to figure out why the Lisk did what he did. We know he's a lunatic loser. We don't need to necessarily know the why, just the who.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Hawkshaw, thanks for lesson on insanity. I agree, we don't need to spend all of our time trying to figure out why the Lisk did what he did. We know he's a lunatic loser. We don't need to necessarily know the why, just the who.

I disagree. We need to know the why because that is, what allows us to find the who or at least to get ahead of him and see, who pops up where we wait for him.