Possible Links between RAT and JM

[Soulmagent]

However, if negative, and therefore exculpatory, LE has to provide that to the defense IIRC. And, yes, I believe the defense would be shouting that from the rooftops particularly since it's been published in MSM that they are actively pursuing those investigations as relates to JM's possible involvement. We know the testing on AM's car isn't back yet, though, and it's been since 10/22.

There are gag orders in place all around Nelson. I dont think we will hear about it until it is decided it is not of use for RAT in any appeal or hearing .


I also cannot find a source for DNA of an unknown male of RATS shorts . I believe this to be a rumor.

I do not think that JM was involved with AM's murder. RAT is a certain evil on his own. However I do think they might have run in a circle together that causes people harm. A message board for local freaks ,or a *advertiser censored* trade and meet...a hunting club , something that allows them to be loosely connected and aware of the other one , and possible a few more bad eggs.

Local horror stories or parties turning out awful? Culpepper just had one the other day..again...

http://news.fredericksburg.com/newsdesk/2014/11/02/19-year-old-culpeper-man-killed-at-party/

Culpeper also had a one of these parties just after Kevin Quick was reported missing, not that this culpeper thing is related but if we were looking into how 2 people who go to the same car shops and bars ,and lived in the same 100 block of georgetown rd the chances of them being around the same pot smoking people tends to increase in odds maybe??

 

[ksj3]

There are gag orders in place all around Nelson. I dont think we will hear about it until it is decided it is not of use for RAT in any appeal or hearing .


I also cannot find a source for DNA of an unknown male of RATS shorts . I believe this to be a rumor.

I do not think that JM was involved with AM's murder. RAT is a certain evil on his own. However I do think they might have run in a circle together that causes people harm. A message board for local freaks ,or a *advertiser censored* trade and meet...a hunting club , something that allows them to be loosely connected and aware of the other one , and possible a few more bad eggs.

Local horror stories or parties turning out awful? Culpepper just had one the other day..again...

http://news.fredericksburg.com/newsdesk/2014/11/02/19-year-old-culpeper-man-killed-at-party/

Culpeper also had a one of these parties just after Kevin Quick was reported missing, not that this culpeper thing is related but if we were looking into how 2 people who go to the same car shops and bars ,and lived in the same 100 block of georgetown rd the chances of them being around the same pot smoking people tends to increase in odds maybe??

People are just crazy. But, the thought that they knew of each other's crimes and perhaps even helped one another with them wouldn't surprise me one iota. Which would then potentially lead to threats not to disclose, including potential planting of evidence to hold over one's head.

 

[oldwindow]

My thoughts on CODIS and DNA are that JM's unidentified DNA was entered into the system after the Fairfax rape case. Morgan's parents pushed really hard to have DNA run against CODIS as well as having a familial match run. It was also a really high profile case with few suspects. I'm under the impression it can take up to 8 months to get results and its expensive. From how I understand it, they run say the sample from Morgans shirt in CODIS against all other samples in CODIS and they get a match.

However they never officially said it was the ONLY case there was a match too, or definitively that there where no other cases who's DNA matched. Even if they knew Morgan matched DNA found in multiple other cases...they still wouldn't know who they were looking for as a suspect. The Fairfax case however produced a sketch...the police needed to tell us how they knew that sketch was connected, so we found out about Fairfax. I doubt they would want to announce the fact that they may in fact have a serial killer on there hands.

Also I've considered the fact that in order to have matches in CODIS to other cases...you actually need to run those samples. In AM's case I'm not convinced, with so much circumstantial evidence against RT, that they would have bothered to run those samples, and wait the 8 months for the results. I also wonder how many times DNA isn't run when the case isn't being taken as a priority by LE. Meaning not only is it not compared to other cases, but is likely not even entered into the system.

And then there is just all those girls, gone without a trace...no Body...no DNA

Your reaching to far. There was no DNa on either of them ( Rt / JM) in that frame. You cant run what you don't have. The 3rd party blood could be Sc clark blood . The Dna found in her car could be anybody's , could be a high school friends of hers. It's was father's car. I don't suspect Jm to be diving her car. If so how did he get back? If that the case why didn't he give rat a ride back home? They live in same area correct? the point Jm was not living that area his mother was.

Btw they have dna of Am in his camper, he(rat) admitted she was in the camper for a long periods of time until dawn. that can mean 10 pm at night or 1-7 am in the next morning.. Just because you don't have said body ,don't mean you don't have case of murder,.It's other things that make a case beyond that.

. I dont understand why other don't think rat killed this young woman, the evidence is very deep.? Rat was seen last with AM as well. Why cant Rat just be a skilled killer same as JM?? If they knew each other maybe. maybe not. You have to understand nobody ever aks do they know D Rice who lived in the same exact area. Who was killing women. Same exact methods ,same exact job work.

His defense attorney had his chance to prove this drug deal to be true and drug deal out right, LE nor his Defense lawyer proved drugs to be in his home. Nada. Not one shred of evidence of drugs on either side. They found nothing of drugs.

The drug angle is a false hood.

 

[CoolJ]

Your reaching to far. There was no DNa on either of them ( Rt / JM) in that frame. You cant run what you don't have. The 3rd party blood could be Sc clark blood . The Dna found in her car could be anybody's , could be a high school friends of hers. It's was father's car. I don't suspect Jm to be diving her car. If so how did he get back? If that the case why didn't he give rat a ride back home? They live in same area correct? the point Jm was not living that area his mother was.

Btw they have dna of Am in his camper, he(rat) admitted she was in the camper for a long periods of time until dawn. that can mean 10 pm at night or 1-7 am in the next morning.. Just because you don't have said body ,don't mean you don't have case of murder,.It's other things that make a case beyond that.

. I dont understand why other don't think rat killed this young woman, the evidence is very deep.? Rat was seen last with AM as well. Why cant Rat just be a skilled killer same as JM?? If they knew each other maybe. maybe not. You have to understand nobody ever do they D Rice who live in he same exact area. Who was killing women. Same exact methods ,same exact job work.

His defense attorney had his chance to prove this drug deal to be true and drug deal out right, LE nor his Defense lawyer proved drugs to be in his home. Nada. Not one shred of evidence of drugs on either side. They found nothing of drugs.

The drug angle is a false hood.

I don't think anyone is necessarily saying RAT did not kill AM, just that JM could very well have been involved. I think it is quite clear to everyone posting in this thread that RAT had at least a part to play in AM's death and/or disappearance.

Why do you think the drug angle is a falsehood? It was RAT that brought drugs into the picture.

 

[oldwindow]

There is a lot of unknown male dna in many crucial areas of RAT case. Investigators have said they would take a look at it at RAT attorney request. It is a double edged sword for investigators as they likely face a shitstorm if JM dna found.

Not really you cant catch everybody in all cases for everything/ every time the mob boss John Gotti is suspected of killing hundreds of men a year for like 9 years. I don't know how many he was linked to in court, but I doubt that many, I just recall 2 . Always keep that in mind.. .

I don't remember DNa being on his shorts in claim. Only on his shirt back . Why would he (rat) put on another man shorts and with blood on it around the pvt area in your claim. I don't see how they never found a 3rd person in his home.

 

[oldwindow]

I don't think anyone is necessarily saying RAT did not kill AM, just that JM could very well have been involved. I think it is quite clear to everyone posting in this thread that RAT had at least a part to play in AM's death and/or disappearance.

Why do you think the drug angle is a falsehood? It was RAT that brought drugs into the picture.

Its real easy to support that angle in court and prove that angle in court , . . Neither side proved or found anything of drug nature beyond hear-say.

 

[CoolJ]

Its real easy to support that angle in court and prove that angle in court , . . Neither side proved or found anything of drug nature beyond hear-say.

That doesn't make it a falsehood though, does it?
It was a murder trial, why would either side have to prove anything of drug nature? The prosecution just wanted to put RAT away for murder, they didn't care about drugs.

 

[ksj3]

I don't think anyone is necessarily saying RAT did not kill AM, just that JM could very well have been involved. I think it is quite clear to everyone posting in this thread that RAT had at least a part to play in AM's death and/or disappearance.

Why do you think the drug angle is a falsehood? It was RAT that brought drugs into the picture.

The only reason I even theorized JM (or someone else) is the one who actually did the deed is because of Alexis' blood on the BACK of RAT's shirt. How did that happen? Even if it had been used for clean-up, it would have saturated through to both sides. :thinking:

 

[oldwindow]

That doesn't make it a falsehood though, does it?
It was a murder trial, why would either side have to prove anything of drug nature? The prosecution just wanted to put RAT away for murder, they didn't care about drugs.

That was Rat defense to start. They didn't know anything about murder or kid napping., It was not murder/kidnapping trail until Le found evidence of murder/kidnapping .Even then he could stayed true to his 1st claim of a drug deal. They have no merits of drug or deal only of murder and kidnapping. If none can find nor prove it. It all hear-say or a false-hood in court.

Same as if you said you won the lotto, Were is your winning ticket.? At least show me a copy a receipt or store saying you won with banner out side saying we sold a 1million dollar winner.? if you cant do that, then its a false hood. Words mean nothing in court without actual hard proof.

Its not LE job to prove that angle, its his defense attorney job. If LE they cant find anything in his claim, they(le) look other things of his claim. if they find nothing its a false hood Does that make sense.?

 

[Ghostwheel]

It does. Thanks. That's what I was wondering.

So, are we safe to assume, then, that since LE is investigating JM in the cases they've announced that they do, in fact, have CODIS hits in those cases? They just need to build the cases?

There were some hits, but they didn't necessarily have to go through CODIS. If some sharp LE officer took a look at JM and said "Hey, this looks like the Morgan Harrington suspect." and they did a DNA comparison without CODIS, they'd still have their link. (CODIS is how they got the link from Morgan to the Fairfax attack. http://www.fbi.gov/washingtondc/press-releases/2012/authorities-launch-multimedia-campaign-in-morgan-harrington-murder-case)However, LE would be remiss if they were not currently running JM DNA through CODIS. Any links should already have been found (see where they linked Morgan with the Fairfax case), but smart money would run it again anyway, in case something slipped through.

 

[oldwindow]

The only reason I even theorized JM (or someone else) is the one who actually did the deed is because of Alexis' blood on the BACK of RAT's shirt. How did that happen? Even if it had been used for clean-up, it would have saturated through to both sides. :thinking:

Not really. If he had a plastic bag with her in it ,on his back , it would just semp( enter) one side. If he used it to clean . I doubt he would wear it unless he is a very sick man.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Too, if RAT's (or at least his attorney's) story of events is true - that party C (unknown male) was at the trailer, whom they said was Damien Brown/Bradley, would his DNA not have been found in RAT's camper? I know soulmagent said it was "clean," but you can't truly clean away that much DNA, can you? What about the sheets? The mattress? Did any crime actually take place INSIDE the camper? There were items found inside the camper, but no DNA found ON items inside the camper (walls, floor, couch, table, mattress, etc.)?

So doesn't that mean, perhaps, not even Alexis was ever inside that camper, much less any third party? Or am I completely not understanding how all this works?

As far as I can tell, there was no confirmation of any DNA, etc inside the camper except those items of Alexis' that were found (a long hair, a nose ring or earring stud, and a fingernail, plus the infamous shirt with AM and RAT dna wrapped around hair extensions and eyelashes belonging to Alexis). So to answer your question, RAT says Alexis was in the camper. True, she may or may not have been. There's nothing that proves she was there except things that could have been brought into the camper after the murder took place somewhere else. IMO, the shirt with the contents inside were the deciding factor as to the conviction. It wouldn't have mattered where it had been found. JMO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Not really. If he had a plastic bag with her in it ,on his back , it would just semp( enter) one side. If he used it to clean . I doubt he would wear it unless he is a very sick man.

Also, if she were just bleeding from her head or face, and she was over his shoulder, face to the back, only blood on the back.

 

[Aeronomy]

I have not heard about unknown male DNA on his shorts.

I remember in court there being questions about why there was not other DNA found ,even thought they didnt find his exes, or sons DNA and they expected it. It wasnt there.

I missed some early morning testimony so maybe I didnt hear about the short thing due to that,is there a link somewhere?

"Investigators testified that blood on a pair of shorts taken from Taylor’s camper matches Murphy’s blood, but also contained the DNA of a man. The FBI could not conclusively determine that the male DNA belongs to Taylor." http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlin...257962951.html

-------------------------------

Inconclusive Results

Results may be interpreted as inconclusive for several reasons. These include situations where no results or only partial results are obtained from the sample due to the limited amount of suitable human DNA or where results are obtained from an unknown crime scene sample but there are no samples from known individuals available for comparison. In the latter case, the results would be suitable for comparison once an appropriate sample for comparison is tested. http://nij.gov/topics/forensics/evidence/dna/basics/pages/possible-results.aspx

 

[Soulmagent]

As far as I can tell, there was no confirmation of any DNA, etc inside the camper except those items of Alexis' that were found (a long hair, a nose ring or earring stud, and a fingernail, plus the infamous shirt with AM and RAT dna wrapped around hair extensions and eyelashes belonging to Alexis). So to answer your question, RAT says Alexis was in the camper. True, she may or may not have been. There's nothing that proves she was there except things that could have been brought into the camper after the murder took place somewhere else. IMO, the shirt with the contents inside were the deciding factor as to the conviction. It wouldn't have mattered where it had been found. JMO.

I think her finger nail embedded in the carpet proves she was there.

It was embedded in the carpet and had ripped off skin ,it was so deep in the carpet from her digging in with her hands trying to get away they had to cut it out. That proves she was there.

 

[CoolJ]

There were some hits, but they didn't necessarily have to go through CODIS. If some sharp LE officer took a look at JM and said "Hey, this looks like the Morgan Harrington suspect." and they did a DNA comparison without CODIS, they'd still have their link. (CODIS is how they got the link from Morgan to the Fairfax attack. http://www.fbi.gov/washingtondc/press-releases/2012/authorities-launch-multimedia-campaign-in-morgan-harrington-murder-case)However, LE would be remiss if they were not currently running JM DNA through CODIS. Any links should already have been found (see where they linked Morgan with the Fairfax case), but smart money would run it again anyway, in case something slipped through.

My worry wouldn't be so much the ones that may have slipped through, but the DNA samples left at crime scenes that doesn't get entered into codis

 

[ThinkHard]

Your reaching to far. There was no DNa on either of them ( Rt / JM) in that frame. You cant run what you don't have. The 3rd party blood could be Sc clark blood . The Dna found in her car could be anybody's , could be a high school friends of hers. It's was father's car. I don't suspect Jm to be diving her car. If so how did he get back? If that the case why didn't he give rat a ride back home? They live in same area correct? the point Jm was not living that area his mother was.

Btw they have dna of Am in his camper, he(rat) admitted she was in the camper for a long periods of time until dawn. that can mean 10 pm at night or 1-7 am in the next morning.. Just because you don't have said body ,don't mean you don't have case of murder,.It's other things that make a case beyond that.

. I dont understand why other don't think rat killed this young woman, the evidence is very deep.? Rat was seen last with AM as well. Why cant Rat just be a skilled killer same as JM?? If they knew each other maybe. maybe not. You have to understand nobody ever aks do they know D Rice who lived in the same exact area. Who was killing women. Same exact methods ,same exact job work.

His defense attorney had his chance to prove this drug deal to be true and drug deal out right, LE nor his Defense lawyer proved drugs to be in his home. Nada. Not one shred of evidence of drugs on either side. They found nothing of drugs.

The drug angle is a false hood.

There could be several reasons for every question you asked. But I'll just stick to a few...I don't think its so unlikely JM was driving the car, not only does he have a history as a cab driver, for perhaps fishy people, many of the missing cases involve abandon cars. If he had done this before I'm pretty sure he knew how to do it without leaving a trail, or perhaps guide someone else in how to do it, meaning have Randy Taylor drive it for him and leave no trace. And I'm pretty sure the last thing he'd want to do is prolong his contact with the man he just commited a murder with. Perhaps when RT was taking care of the car, JM "took care of the body.".

As far as the drugs things....if RT had to turn over actual drugs to prove a drug deal went down...I can think of at least one VERY good reason why he would want to do that....if he turns over those drugs he RATS out his supplier....he doesn't have to say a word...they can tell by the quality/variety of the drug to know where else its been seen........so they know who RT is linked to...and those people might not want that to happen

 

[ThinkHard]

The only reason I even theorized JM (or someone else) is the one who actually did the deed is because of Alexis' blood on the BACK of RAT's shirt. How did that happen? Even if it had been used for clean-up, it would have saturated through to both sides. :thinking:

I just had this thought...you know how AM blood spatter was found on the wall, (as seen by that special camera and confirmed by DNA, its been linked a few times)...anyway what if JM smacked AM so hard it broke her nose and caused the blood to "spray"...could the blood have gotten on RT's back if he was standing at the right angle in the right spot?

I can't think of anything else that would cause only a small amount of blood to be found, but for it to be described as spray.

 

[themom]

I just had this thought...you know how AM blood spatter was found on the wall, (as seen by that special camera and confirmed by DNA, its been linked a few times)...anyway what if JM smacked AM so hard it broke her nose and caused the blood to "spray"...could the blood have gotten on RT's back if he was standing at the right angle in the right spot?

I can't think of anything else that would cause only a small amount of blood to be found, but for it to be described as spray, then if the blood came from your nose.

A gun shot or even a knife plunge could cause splatter, based on what I've seen on Dexter.

 

[ksj3]

I just had this thought...you know how AM blood spatter was found on the wall, (as seen by that special camera and confirmed by DNA, its been linked a few times)...anyway what if JM smacked AM so hard it broke her nose and caused the blood to "spray"...could the blood have gotten on RT's back if he was standing at the right angle in the right spot?

I can't think of anything else that would cause only a small amount of blood to be found, but for it to be described as spray.

I don't mean to be difficult, and I know oldwindow has repeatedly stated that, but I don't recall seeing any links nor can I find any that indicate there was, in fact, blood found on RAT's camper walls (and I've been keeping up pretty well).

Can someone lead me to those? I'll continue to look...