Possible Sexual Relationship Between DeDe and Terri?

[MysteryAddict]

Honestly, I don't care what these two women do to or with each other, I only care
what they did to Kyron!!

 

[Schmerty_Jones]

This is a very intuitive & informative thread ,especially this page. Relationships are complex. Human beings are complex. Events that occur are baffling, unexplainable. I have wondered about the disappearance of Kyron. I have wondered what kind of person or person can have such vengeance in their heart to harm a little child or a fellow human being.
This thread has made a mark for me. I understand the good ,the bad & the very ugly. For a long time I couldn't see how this event could occur. People are different, its their right ! People can affect each other & not have the same respect for human life. I can now connect the dots partially, because only thru experience can very disturbing things be explained.
Thank you to those of you who have made this understandable. I still wish Kyron did not have to go thru this horror.I still wish human beings had respect for human life.:banghead::banghead::furious:

 

[Etilema]

I'm going to share part of my life here to illustrate what I think of Dede and TH's relationship. I really think that they have a deep friendship, so deep it may seem like it could be sexual, and for all we know is.

I had two friends, well, I knew two people that I thought were my friends. I've had trouble making friends my whole life, and all I ever wanted to was have that one best friend that everyone else seemed to have but me. I did have some friends over time, but not that soulmate best friend that some people seemed to have. When I was getting my Master's degree, I met a girl that said everything I wanted to hear. At the time, I was still naive and a lot more gullible than I am now. I really thought she was my best friend, and I enjoyed being so close to her, like I was in some sort of secret circle that other people weren't allowed to be in, at least that's what she let me think. I watched how she treated other people, and we even shared laughter at the things she would do. Sometimes she'd ask me to lie about something or not say anything about something. It was like we had secrets from other people, or I'd help her get what she wanted from other people, all the while thinking how great this was, and how fun some of the risks were. But I didn't care as long as I thought she was my best friend, that friend I had always been looking for. When I think about it, I don't know how far I would have gone for her because I was so thankful and happy that I had finally found that best friend I had always been looking for that I can tell you I would have done anything to make sure she was still my best friend. I even charged up a credit card to help what I thought was "us" start a business on Ebay selling clothes and suits. I trusted her with paying monthly rent that I gave her for our apartment. I took care of a dog that she brought into our house but didn't take care of herself. I did so many things for her because I was convinced of what a great best friend she was.

It was all a lie, though. She lied about a lot things, only had the dog to make me think she liked dogs as much as I did, had no real respect for me, had lied about me to other people, and not only didn't pay me back for helping her start a business, but I found out she scamming the landlord on the rent. She would pretend to mail it from her work and then act like it got lost in the mail when she was really spending the money on herself. She also broke my car window, stole my purse, tried to cash a check using my license, and worst of all, called the police over to lecture me after I tripped during an argument and almost fell into her. She twisted it into assault and I was lucky she didn't charge me and that I didn't get jail time. I felt like the world's biggest idiot. I didn't realize that I should have paid attention to how she treated other people because why wouldn't she treat me any better? I had totally been scammed, had to pay back rent and had to help my parents help me with my credit card, and felt totally used and discarded. It was one of the worst times in my life after she left and after what she did to me.

She did call me once after that, complaining that someone had broken into her new place, a place she really couldn't afford to live in anyway, and I stupidly offered to let her store some stuff with me, but she said no and hung up the phone. I honestly think that she was seeing if there was anything else she could get out of me, and realized that there wasn't and just moved on, thank GOD.

There was another best friend at a later time that, well let's say it was the only experiment in my life, and she turned out to be a liar and user as well, only was much more obvious about it. I was so scared about being thrown out in the street in a city where I knew nobody that I was constantly trying to make up with her. Thankfully, I met my husband and moved in with him, and haven't look back since. I almost agreed to cosign on a car loan with her, but thank GOD I said no. She was terrible with money and I would have been the one responsible for it at some point.

The whole point here is, I was so desperate for a best friend that I did stupid things and believed everything these people were telling me. There's no telling how far I would have gone for the first one, and that scares me. But it tells me that sometimes people's lives can be missing one thing so much that they are willing to do anything to keep what they think they can't live without.

I think Dede is someone that doesn't make a whole lot of friends, especially close ones. Then she meets cool TH, a much more sexually aggressive and all around fun, risky person than Dede ever could be. She gets close to her, gets into TH's inner circle, and is willing to do what it takes to keep TH her friend. And TH is just a user, not close to anyone, willing to rope in the most gullible person and use them to her advantage until there's nothing left to gain from them. I think she might have even used sex here to get Dede to do what she wants. I wouldn't be surprised of that at all. I fear that she will turn on Dede and might even try to blame this whole thing on her just because that's what Dede is there for, to be her gofer and patsy. But Dede is so blinded by friendship, and maybe even love, that she's not seeing the real TH but the TH she wants to see, and thinks TH wouldn't ever throw her under the bus to get out of trouble. Who knows what these two have done and NOT been caught for until now.

I think that's why Dede keeps sending these reassuring messages, almost like see, I'm not talking, I'm not throwing you under the bus, I'm being your best friend still. Maybe she thinks TH won't do the same to her. But I don't think TH is as good of a best friend as Dede is, and I think she is totally using Dede to her advantage, and that probably will, at some point, include throwing Dede under the bus for this crime IF they are guilty of it. I doubt they are going stay friends after this, at least Dede might, but I figure TH will move on and find someone else to use and discard.

So I do believe it's a very close friendship, I think Dede thinks she's found her best friend or even soulmate here, and TH is definitely not on the same page. There's been no reassuring messages from her, no signal or anything except that she's not talking to suggest that Dede is safe. I won't be surprised to see her offer Dede up on a silver platter should she be arrested. I just hope Dede is prepared to do the right thing instead of going down for what she thinks is her best friend or soulmate.

And I agree that some deep friendships do not have a sexual component, but it's so deep it mirrors a romantic relationship. I don't think that's the case here. I think Dede THINKS it's a deep friendship while TH is just exploiting it, even sexually, to get what she wants. When you've found someone, whether lover or friend, that you can't live without, you find you're willing to do all sorts of things to keep them, even bad things. Luckily, I escaped from two false friendships without jailtime or doing something I would deeply regret later. I guess we'll wait and see how deep their friendship really is should they ever be arrested. As it stands now, it does seem that there's more than just a friendship there to Dede, at the very least a deep, almost romantic one that Dede seems to willing to keep no matter what while TH is willing to just keep using Dede until she can discard her and move on.

Sorry this was so long, and all is MOO.

Wow--NOW I understand what you were getting at with the "Thelma & Louise vibe"! I didn't know what you meant before, but the part I bolded above explains.

TH has demonstrated in her relationship with MC and supposedly in her conduct with the landscaper that she has uses sexuality to manipulate another person into doing things.

I think your general comments about certain relationship dynamics are insightful (unfortunately, based on your own experiences). And I think you have just explained 75% of the cases on Judge Judy!

It feels to me as if something like this might be going on with Dede--it's just not clear to what extent. Would she merely lie and cover-up for her, or would she actually help her with a criminal plan?

All speculation and opinion on my part.

 

[jat]

Of course it is relevant and I have been wondering why no one has mentioned it thus far. If Terri had a male friend that moved in right after Kaine left or if it was found out Terri was dating a man, the speculation would be plentiful. I feel like some folks say "who cares" or "it's irrelevant", etc. as an overcompensation to show that homosexually doesn't bother them...but by ignoring the possibility that Terri and Dede are in a relationship isn't the way to do it. Do you think the police just accepted that Terri and Dede are strictly friends or do you think they considered the possibility that the relationship may be romantic...even if one sidedly romantic. When searching for Kyron or at least an indication of what happened to Kyron, motive must be explored and exploration of motive in this case has to include the possibility of extramarital relationships. Male...female...neighbor...cousin...doesn't matter!

That said, I definitely get the feeling there is something more to their relationship. However, I have absolutely no proof and I couldn't even point to something particular, so I have nothing to offer by way of evidence or my opinion. It is just a feeling. Certainly could be and probably is wrong.

My point is only to say that it is certainly relevant. Any law officers on the board have anything to say about whether or not the investigators of the case would have considered the possibility?

 

[sleuthy sleutherson]

What a great post! But I think Dede is a user herself. So maybe a mutual user, with TH as the leader?

I think of the Hillside Stranglers who were cousins. One was the dominant, but obviously they were both ugly.

And then someone gave the example of the pair of women who took a child (step or bio?) from school and the mother strangled him in the car.

Hum...mutual user's, that would be the worst sort of combination. I know, dealing with it right now.

 

[akashana]

Of course it is relevant and I have been wondering why no one has mentioned it thus far. If Terri had a male friend that moved in right after Kaine left or if it was found out Terri was dating a man, the speculation would be plentiful. I feel like some folks say "who cares" or "it's irrelevant", etc. as an overcompensation to show that homosexually doesn't bother them...but by ignoring the possibility that Terri and Dede are in a relationship isn't the way to do it. Do you think the police just accepted that Terri and Dede are strictly friends or do you think they considered the possibility that the relationship may be romantic...even if one sidedly romantic. When searching for Kyron or at least an indication of what happened to Kyron, motive must be explored and exploration of motive in this case has to include the possibility of extramarital relationships. Male...female...neighbor...cousin...doesn't matter!

That said, I definitely get the feeling there is something more to their relationship. However, I have absolutely no proof and I couldn't even point to something particular, so I have nothing to offer by way of evidence or my opinion. It is just a feeling. Certainly could be and probably is wrong.

My point is only to say that it is certainly relevant. Any law officers on the board have anything to say about whether or not the investigators of the case would have considered the possibility?

MY BOLD

Thank you! How anyone can consider unimportant any of Terri's interpersonal relationships in the months preceeding Kyron's disappearance and immediately following it absolutely boggles my mind! It's not salacious or prurient to speculate on the nature of her relationships with others, be they friends, lovers, relatives or all or none of the above. If she had been visiting an elderly relative in a nursing home I would think that LE would want to know all about that connection as well. While they have not labeled her as a POI or suspect, their actions and subsequent press releases clearly indicate she is the one to whom they have directed the focus of their investigation.

For the life of me I cannot understand why people are so adamant that this speculation is somehow egregiously inappropriate. It's almost as if TH should "get a pass" if she was engaging in some form of same-sex relationship, or that if they were only platonic friends, that should preclude further delving into the possible ramifications. Initially I was a bit cowed by all the resistance to this thread, but now I'm simply amazed, because it seems so crystal clear to me that this is an aspect that could be the key to the whole tragic mystery.

 

[xin]

It's in the interview People did with DeDe. DeDe said they were receiving death threats, and went on to say she slept downstairs near the door with the fire extinguisher while Terri slept upstairs.

That's interesting, a specific point about sleeping arrangements.

imo

 

[gwenabob]

That's interesting, a specific point about sleeping arrangements.

imo

I think it is interesting that DeDe felt it was her job to "protect" Terri from possible danger. That's gotta be some strong friendship to put your life on the line.

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

I say no. Has no bearing on the case if so. Just like TH's sexting to M. I believe TH is into guys. I don't have enough info on DDS to insinuate that's she's a lesbian.

Where's Kyron.....

Hugs,

Mel

The sexting seemed so deliberate and "unhidden" compared to other activities and cell phones that were/are closely guarded. Maybe it was all just for show...to "manipulate" the attention from ever going to DDS, which didn't work if that is the case.

 

[txsvicki]

What's the law about it? Wouldn't Kyron still count as a beneficiary of Kaine's life insurance and inheritance (unless Kaine has ruled him out by naming other people) as long as he's not been found deceased or been declared legally dead? It might take a while for the legally dead thing, in the absence of any evidence of death, so IMO if the plan was to cut him out of Kaine's inheritance it was not a very good plan to have him disappear for long and he should be somewhere where he'll be found eventually.



JMO but I find it rather unlikely that someone who was never close to Terri would have helped her plan a birthday party and dropped everything to help her after reading from the news that she was in trouble. It wouldn't surprise me if Kaine wasn't aware of all his wife's friends. And of course if there was more than friendship Terri mightn't tell him anything.

Dede herself says she and Terri have been friends for several years and implies they know each other well.

"I just really don't. In my heart, I really don't. In all of these years [as her friend], I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe that she is capable or motivated in any way to do something like this."
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/dede_spicher_to_people_magazin.html




This quote was one of the things that made me wonder if they might have had a closet relationship, the fact that DS thought it necessary to point out that they weren't sleeping together, not even on the same floor. It had never occurred to me to wonder where everyone slept.

The sleeping arrangement is kind of funny, as if DeDe was more of the protector in the relationship, keeping anyone from getting to Terri or past her to the second floor. I'd think of two women best friends sleeping in the same locked room, scared, and comforting one another by talking and being a shoulder to cry on.

 

[ThoughtFox]

If Terri had a male friend that moved in right after Kaine left or if it was found out Terri was dating a man, the speculation would be plentiful. I feel like some folks say "who cares" or "it's irrelevant", etc. as an overcompensation to show that homosexually doesn't bother them...but by ignoring the possibility that Terri and Dede are in a relationship isn't the way to do it.

Here's the problem: Terri and DeDe were not the only ones around right after Kaine left. If they had been, the relationship between DD and TH might be clearer, but that's not what what happened.

Terri had a relationship going with a man when DeDe moved in! Michael Cook! It's well-documented in the restraining order papers that Th and MC were having a sexual relationship soon after Kaine moved out!

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

And we did talk about it for days, as I recall. We knew more about him from the beginning and DeDe's role only emerged later.

Also:

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/kyrons-dad-claims-wife-had-affair-after-boy-vanished/19552113

According to the motion filed by Horman's attorney, Laura Rackner, Moulton Horman first met Cook after Kyron's disappearance on June 4, after Cook helped organize searches for the boy and stopped by the family home with food and drink. The documents allege Moulton Horman and Cook began exchanging sexually oriented photos via text messages on June 30, four days after her husband left her.

The court filing references "hundreds of text messages as well as several photographs of [Moulton Horman] in various states of undress and graphic sexual activity."

"While at times [Moulton Horman] references the fact that she misses both children Baby K. and Kyron, the significant majority of the material deals with social and personal matters between Mr. Cook and respondent [Moulton Horman]," (Attorney) Rackner stated.

I have no idea how DeDe fits into that picture, but that might be the reason that many of us didn't immediately think Terri was a lesbian/bisexual. Maybe she is, but her exhibitionist sexting with men seems to confuse the matter.

 

[pufnstuf]

...

O/T: Wow, ThoughtFox! 5K posts! And all of them which I have read have been excellent. Just wanted to point out this milestone to you.

 

[human]

If Terri was getting death threats, why didn't she just move back with her parents right away?

Her parents house appears to be in a neighborhood as opposed to be more isolated in the Horman house.

And her son was back in Roseburg so she could have contact with him.

She grew up in that town and must have friends there.

I just don't know why she chose to stay in that house .

 

[pufnstuf]

If Terri was getting death threats, why didn't she just move back with her parents right away?

Her parents house appears to be in a neighborhood as opposed to be more isolated in the Horman house.

And her son was back in Roseburg so she could have contact with him.

She grew up in that town and must have friends there.

I just don't know why she chose to stay in that house .

Makes no sense.

 

[Etilema]

If they did have such a relationship, it could explain what they went into the yard to talk about. Because I still don't know what Dede was implying had to be discussed out of range of surveillance devices. JMO

 

[watchful_eye]

First, I think a person has the ability to be brainwashed or manipulated by a FRIEND or lover, so I'm not so sure they had to be lovers to get DeDe involved in any crime. I'd say it is probably easier to manipulate a lover than a friend because of the emotional connection or infatuation involved, but again, it is not the only situation in which someone can take advantage of another.

Originally posted by akashana:

I get the impression that TH uses her sexuality to manipulate others.

This is so believable and I think this is the key. Sexual preference is not the issue here, it is the ability to use that against a vulnerable person.

Women have been statistically shown (Kinsey research, etc...) to have "fluid" sexuality, meaning that they straight women may develop sexual attraction or more so emotional feelings for other women. Call it bi-sexual, call it experimenting, call it what you will, but it happens.

Dede may have been in a relationship with Terri, OR had a crush on her and decided to impress her or just help her in any way.

OR, DeDe admired Terri so much (saw her as beautiful, charming, and powerful,) and just fell under her "spell"---no defined sexual feelings involved.

 

[ThoughtFox]

O/T: Wow, ThoughtFox! 5K posts! And all of them which I have read have been excellent. Just wanted to point out this milestone to you.

Thank you, pufnstuf! I've been around here a long time. I don't have as many posts as some people, but I like to think I make each one count. :angel:

OR, DeDe admired Terri so much (saw her as beautiful, charming, and powerful,) and just fell under her "spell"---no defined sexual feelings involved.

I see it that way as well. Sexual or not, there is some sort of bond between them, and Terri certainly has some kind of charisma.

 

[Haeve]

I hope it's not too annoying if I repost my post from the DS's ex-BF thread, which I made before I was aware this thread had started:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5538425&postcount=503"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.08.18 - Dede's ex-Boyfriend describes her[/ame]


I think mostly I'd like to reiterate from that post that if DS is not straight, just because Portland is less homophobic than many places, doesn't mean we know how DS's family might react to her orientation, or many other variables. I don't think it's fair to say that she would automatically be out if she was bi or gay. I've worked for a couple different government agencies in Oregon, and despite all the non-discriminatory language regarding government employment, it's still pretty much "don't ask, don't tell". I've also been with my gay friends in rural (anywhere a stone's-throw outside Portland or Eugene) Oregon and overheard some pretty ugly things directed at them.

What does that have to do with Kyron? Even if they had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance, it's possible that the need to hide a relationship between TH and DS is more powerful than telling the truth about their whereabouts on the morning of June 4. But personally I've reached the conclusion that there are huge pieces of the puzzle that we don't know yet and they have nothing to do with the degree of relationship (meaning that term loosely--a friendship is a relationship) between TH and DS. JMHO, YMMV.

 

[AbbieNormal]

I don't really care if they are gay, straight, bisexual, or neuter. I don't think it makes any difference in this case.

Alot of times loyalty is more of a motivator - surely not all the other women who have helped Terri are lesbians too?

I think Terri is an exhibitionist/narcissist (think Madonna/Lady GaGa) and she doesn't really care who is turned on by that as long as she gets the attention. The Sexting and Bodybuilding are the evidence for that. MOO

I haven't read this entire thread, but how does this Michael Cook fit into this theory? Apparently he and DeDe were both at the house after Kaine moved out, and the relationship was sexual. :waitasec:

I think Terri is a manipulator, and with her "Landscaper Posse" she wanted to kill her husband and possibly get Kyron out of her life.

I see more of a mutual benefit society. DeDe wrote on the internet that she wanted to share a piece of land - Terri has a nice home with land plus a landscaper fetish!

Maybe it was more about DeDe helping get Kaine/Kyron out of the way and then she would have a landscaper's job for life and a place to live?

BBM. Well, if it was Terris plan to keep Kaines house, that certainly backfired on her. She has alot of cahunas to think Kaine would allow her to continue to live in that house, HIS house, after what had happened to Kyron.
Does Terri EVER think with a clear head, at all??

 

[gliving]

If Terri was getting death threats, why didn't she just move back with her parents right away?

Her parents house appears to be in a neighborhood as opposed to be more isolated in the Horman house.

And her son was back in Roseburg so she could have contact with him.

She grew up in that town and must have friends there.

I just don't know why she chose to stay in that house .

In case Kyron came home?