Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert

[PreciousDust]

Oh, unless of course they're also involved in what is now a conspiracy of epic proportions.

When an epic conspiracy makes as much sense as any of the other explanations, start considering an epic conspiracy.

 

[mcme]

[QU**OTE=PreciousDust;8553719]When an epic conspiracy makes as much sense as any of the other explanations, start considering an epic conspiracy.[/QUOTE]

I'll almost always agree that I may be wrong, so I ask myself what's probable a whole lot. Running off into a place that from the outside doesn't look like a place that can take your life, but certainly can, all because your brain just told you,"they're out to get you, get the F*#! out of here", make's way more sense and looks far more probable than either an organized, or alternately barely associated, group of guys all interested in capturing, torturing and killing e-sex workers, while operating out of a small and close knit community with either impunity because of fear of staining the area's reputation, or with such stealth that no one has seen or heard anything about it over years of covert meetings even though it involves several prominent area members, some of whom are KNOWN to talk up a blue streak about what is, and what may not even be close to going on in their life. You are going to see thing through your eyes and with your prejudice, and I'm going to see things through mine, with mine.
I'll admit here and now, the Oak Beach Boys story has a way better chance at being a movie or best seller, but it's just as believable as the Amityville Horror.

 

[deedee21]

Mcme, You mentioned SG wasnt dressed. Dont forget that fact. Did you believe the commis when he said her pants fell off? Pants dont just fall off. He also refered to the area SG was found in as a crime scene.

 

[Samantha Spade]

A proactive phone call full of lies from OB to MG indicates guilt. Somebody in OB felt the need to lie about the girls well being and location. These are not the actions of an innocent party.

You may not be privy to everyone's activities in OB. Activities including drugs and mongering aren't generally advertised. These characters would only have to briefly cross paths that night, and a full conspiracy isn't required. If there wasn't an extremely good reason to search an ex~county directors house and property with cadaver dogs during LI's highest profile case, do you really think SCPD would have?

---------------

Even the pastor who worked side by side with Dennis Rader (BTK) STILL doesn't believe it was Dennis Rader who abducted, tortured and killed those people. He has said that the person he saw in that courtroom coldly confessing was not the man he knew and even goes so far as truly believing he was possessed.

Something to think about.

 

[mcme]

Mcme, You mentioned SG wasnt dressed. Dont forget that fact. Did you believe the commis when he said her pants fell off? Pants dont just fall off. He also refered to the area SG was found in as a crime scene.

Deedee21, I said she wasn't dressed for the weather and temps out there that night. SG's pants were supposedly found away from her remains, near her purse. It's possible in my mind, that her pants and purse were with her when she died, and left the area by floating to where they were found during the storm Irene, long after it didn't matter how tight the pants were because there were no legs left in them, only bones.

 

[PreciousDust]

Running off into a place that from the outside doesn't look like a place that can take your life, but certainly can, all because your brain just told you,"they're out to get you, get the F*#! out of here", make's way more sense....

That's true, as far as it goes. Of course, we have no idea what SGs brain was "telling her", just like we have no idea about anything else - until we hear the 911 call we don't even know what she said on it, we just have to accept what we've heard about it. So, yes, a substance-abuser possibly suffering from paranoid delusions runs from the place she's last seen, and is later found dead in the brush. Sounds like she probably succumbed to exposure; even removing some of her clothing is consistent with what someone suffering from hypothermia might do. Case closed, then. Except that she's a sex worker and the immediate area is littered with dead sex workers - now that's a bit odd, isn't it? The particular conspiracy you cite sounds far-fetched, but so does the idea that it's just a coincidence that a sex worker who believes someone is trying to kill her actually ends up dead in that small area of dead sex workers. As time goes on, two things become more and more likely; 1) that the killer may be dead or in jail, since there's been no new murders, and 2) that the police are running a rather poor investigation, since there's been no breakthroughs. Why are they running a poor investigation? Is it a lack of competence, or is it because they don't want to "solve" it? Giving them the benefit of the doubt on competence, why don't they want to solve it? Is it because it's "just dead hookers", or is it because the solution makes them look bad?

I'll admit here and now, the Oak Beach Boys story has a way better chance at being a movie or best seller, but it's just as believable as the Amityville Horror.

I don't know about the "Oak Beach Boys" story, but in every possible way the police have acted squirrelly in the extreme in this case. The "SG wandered off into the brush and succumbed to the elements" theory is just about as believable as the Amityville Horror to 82% of the people who have a firm opinion at the poll I started here (of those who only guess instead of believe, 70% guess it's not believable). That's why I started that poll, from reading the occasional "anyone with a brain knows she wasn't murdered" comment here. A sizable majority of people believe she was murdered; for them, that's what's "probable".

 

[hawkshaw]

Dormer said, or was reported to have said in various media reports that HE believed that while SG was running thru the dense brush and bramble her clothes came off after being caught on said brush and bramble. THAT is what he said, or reported to have said. PERIOD. Let us not start rewriting history.

 

[hawkshaw]

There is NOT a murder case in ANY Police Department that an experienced investigator couldn't be blindfolded and fetch a folder out of a cabinet and not find multiple things wrong with it, or items that could be quesitoned: they should have done this, or they should have done that, or they should not have done - etc, etc etc.

 

[PreciousDust]

Dormer said, or was reported to have said in various media reports that HE believed that while SG was running thru the dense brush and bramble her clothes came off after being caught on said brush and bramble. THAT is what he said, or reported to have said. PERIOD. Let us not start rewriting history.

Where did I quote what Dormer said? What's more, who cares what Dormer said? If SG was actually suffering from hypothermia, then she would have been smart to remove her wet clothing - it's what you're supposed to do. Having said that, though, I very much doubt that's what actually happened.

 

[PreciousDust]

There is NOT a murder case in ANY Police Department that an experienced investigator couldn't be blindfolded and fetch a folder out of a cabinet and not find multiple things wrong with it, or items that could be quesitoned: they should have done this, or they should have done that, or they should not have done - etc, etc etc.

Typically, though, making some kind of eventual progress is something they all "should have done".

 

[truthspider]

.
I'll admit here and now, the Oak Beach Boys story has a way better chance at being a movie or best seller, but it's just as believable as the Amityville Horror.

The narrative that seems like a work of fiction is the one LE and the OIBA would like us to believe: SG died as a result of her own shortcomings, she isn't connected to the pile of dead sex workers outside of the gate, those victims are probably the work of the maffia or urban gangs and if not and it is a serial killer, he certainly doesn't live around here, because nobody around here would do that, we know everybody and they wouldn't do that.

The problem with this narrative is that it doesn't adhere to the facts.

The truth is you have a serial killer living next door, you just don't want to admit it to yourself which is understandable.

 

[LINative13]

You ever see that show "Behind Mansion Walls"? Its with the dude from LIfestyles of RIch and Famous....the british guy with the ****** teeth.

 

[hawkshaw]

Where did I quote what Dormer said? What's more, who cares what Dormer said? If SG was actually suffering from hypothermia, then she would have been smart to remove her wet clothing - it's what you're supposed to do. Having said that, though, I very much doubt that's what actually happened.

I didn't say YOU said that, I said I read it and thought it was very clear I probably saw it in the papers or TV.

 

[PreciousDust]

I didn't say YOU said that, I said I read it and thought it was very clear I probably saw it in the papers or TV.

Yeah, my mistake, Hawk, I realized after I posted that your "clothes off" comment might not have been referring to mine (though mine was right before yours, so I hope you can understand my confusion).

If, when Dormer stood at the podium, someone handed him a slip of paper saying "people suffering from hypothermia often take off their clothes", I'm sure he would have went with that instead of the magical clothes-removing branches.

 

[hawkshaw]

PD - it would take a lot for me to doubt you. OK?

 

[PreciousDust]

Thanks, Hawk, and you know it's mutual.

 

[mcme]

Dormer said, or was reported to have said in various media reports that HE believed that while SG was running thru the dense brush and bramble her clothes came off after being caught on said brush and bramble. THAT is what he said, or reported to have said. PERIOD. Let us not start rewriting history.

Hawkshaw, I've re-read the last page here and don't see anyone trying to rewrite the history of what Dormer said. I don't believe brush and bramble removed SG's pants. I believe it's far more likely she removed them, or they removed themselves after her body was reduced to only bones. I can't imagine that you're insisting I buy into Dormer's version of events.

 

[hawkshaw]

I meant no one in particular when I made the 're-writing history' remark. It was put out there back months ago suggesting SGs clothes came off when snagged by the foilage. Now someone is suggesting the pants came loose after the body became a skeleton and floated away. Where did that crazy idea come from?

I keep on saying not to make it anymore complicated than it already is. The PD, IMVHO should be working on the premise that she was murdered until such time a cause of death is determined and ALL the usual suspects have been ruled out.

 

[LINative13]

Jeans do not get taken off by magical plants. Especially girl jeans that are usually tight so there is not much to snag. Anyone here ever run or think they are running for his or her life or for that matter ever have your life endangered? Ever have that fight or flight instinct kick in?
I have. You feel that addrena,line hit your bloodstream and you get that weird uneasy feeling in the pit of your stomach. I kind of like it.
Its hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that someone who was a relatively healthy young woman who was fleeing for her life was taken out by hypothermia. You are fleeing for your life....you are not going to stop and take your pants off, or snuggle into the fetal position to warm up.
I would be easier sold she died of a heart attack than hypothermia. Atleast with a heart attack it actually plays into the equation.

 

[truthspider]

Jeans do not get taken off by magical plants. Especially girl jeans that are usually tight ....

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