Possible Victim: Valerie Mack, 24, Manorville Jane Doe #6, missing 2000, found Nov 2000 & Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

[jollyjustice]

I just came across this article that states Valerie Mack as a Craigslist escort.

Investigators use DNA, genetic genealogy to ID another victim of Long Island serial murders

Valerie advertising on Craigslist wasn’t stated in the release on the GilgoNews website by the police though, so does anyone know if this claim is truthful?

If that’s the case that’s another link between Valerie and the gilgo4 in addition to being petite in body type.

I thought Craigslist wasn’t around then but turns out it was created in 1995.

 

[Blueeyedbrowngirl]

One of Several Victims in 'Long Island Serial Killer' Mystery Identified 20 Years After Her Death

 

[Al Ka]

Genetic geneology of Asian Male and Baby Doe has presented "challenges," according to Hart.

Yeah, I wonder what the "challengers" are. No DNA? No cooperation with family if DNA had a hit? Clerical errors? Could be anything.

It is by now known that Genetic Genealogy faces challenges mostly in cases of minorities - asian, black, native american etc - for simple reason that among those groups DNA testing of their family members for ancestry or other purposes is less popular hence also much smaller pool of people to search from by police. Sometimes searches comes up empty, without any hits. I personally think that NY police might be having the same issues in their cases.

Even DNA Doe Project strugles in some of their cases due to the same reason. Kern Co, California Jane Doe - which might from Mexico or native - almost no hits. Seneca, Illinois Jane Doe - black, found in 1976 - very distant non traceable hits - and many other cases.

Edit to add: Just catching up and see only now that Mrs Badcrumble already clarified the same point.

 

[Blueeyedbrowngirl]

Her mugshots are haunting, she was just a baby; they all were.
Investigators use DNA, genetic genealogy to ID another victim of Long Island serial murders

 

[CuriousKenna]

Some of you are commenting on the victims not being reported missing... if you have never tried to file a missing person report on a person from out of state without knowing exactly where they went missing from, let me educate you on how it goes... Police will just argue with you about whose jurisdiction it is and won't take the report. You'll get mad and call State police who will tell you to file from where the last place the victim was known to be is, so you become an investigator yourself and call abd talk to everyone you can think of only to learn they've been seen in several jurisdictions by various people and no one is sure of a time line so you are no better off.

You'll get even more upset and call the the FBI and leave your case on the answering machine never speaking to a person and never getting a confirmation that anything will be done which you get fair warning of on the answering machine.

You will eventually try to reach out to the news stations who will tell you they don't put these stories on the news without a police report number, that you don't have because no one will take the report.

So eventually you realize you're in this alone and you just put posters up and join missing persons groups and listen to how the families of other missing people were treated similar.

You cling to the hope they're out there living a good life they didn't want you to be a part of because it gives you hope but in the back of your mind you fear they could be dead. But the nagging questions, where are you? Just loops incessantly in any spare time you have.

You might try to hire a private investigator if you have the means to do so. But essentially you just slowly lose your mind and wait for a phone call to come.

Sometimes loved ones shut you out despite your efforts. Sometimes you can't get law enforcement to cooperate. Don't make the family feel worse they probably already do.

Before anyone asks, I'm not connected to this case but I did have a loved one go missing and it was a nightmare getting police to take the report. In the end, we solved the case ourselves by posting our own missing person reports on the internet and someone contacted us directly with a lead after they made several phone calls to police trying to report a tip and never getting a call back. Our story has a happy ending luckily. Not everyone is so lucky.

It's not always law enforcement's fault, I recognize but I'll never forget how impossible it was to get them to care in our case.

 

[Manwel]

I agree with this, the Gilgo 4 seem like a local did it, somehow. And, if there was any connection between Shannan and a serial killer, it was the Gilgo 4 serial killer, not Bittrolff.​

Here I don't agree...in fact, I think those bodies were thrown as far as possible from a pick-up truck that parked right alongside the brush on the side of the road. There was no revisiting to be done there, you'd be covered with ticks if you tried to battle two feet into it. Maybe the killer drove by that area later to get his jollies, but I doubt it <modsnip>.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of desire to put it all on Bittrolff because details look good for him. Manorville/Shirley, women in the sex industry, early 90s murders that were easy to find. It's hard to ignore. I think the most incriminating thing for me is the disappearances/remains seem to have stopped when he was arrested.

In March 2012 were the Manorville Hills County Park remains, which had been dead a week. (There does not appear to be a lot of information on that case.) If that person was not murdered by the same person who killed the Gilgo Beach 4, then the last (known) victims were two of the 2010 Gilgo Beach 4. (The third went missing in 2007, and the fourth went missing in July 2009.) So you narrow your most recent LISK victims down to 2010 OR 2012. (All other remains found after 2010 were killed pre-2010.)

What preceded the Gilgo Beach 4?

Shannon Gilbert. On May 1, 2010, she is killed in Oak Beach, just seven miles from where the Gilgo Beach 4 will be found only months later. A canine unit looking for Gilbert discovers the Gilgo Beach 4. We know that Megan Waterman goes missing after June 5, 2010. Then Amber Lynn Costello after September 2, 2010. Presumably, Amber Lynn Costello is the last known victim. (Natasha Jugo sounds like a suicide, IMHO.) When they are found due to the search for Shannon Gilbert, they have the media's attention and speculation. No more post-2010 victims are found on Gilgo Beach nor in Manorville with the exception of this 2012 female found by a jogger. From 2011 until July 2014, when Bittrolff is charged with the murders of two women in the 1990s, police find all the remains of those murdered before 2010.

Since Bittrolff was taken into police custody, there haven't been any missing women found dismembered in that area.

But they have been found in Brooklyn and the Bronx.

 

[Sallyla]

Her mugshots are haunting, she was just a baby; they all were.
Investigators use DNA, genetic genealogy to ID another victim of Long Island serial murders

She was. She’s two years older than me. I was so naive, alone and troubled at her age. There but for the grace of God go we all. Rest in peace Valerie.

 

[Al Ka]

Suffolk police say Valerie Mack's biological parents died when she was young, so she went through the foster system and was later adopted. She had been living with a boyfriend before her disappearance. She also had a son, who is now in his 20s.

Suffolk police, FBI identify Gilgo Beach victim as missing escort
Police Release Identity Of Gilgo Beach Murder Victim

 

[Manwel]

Agree with you that for a lack of better terms, Mack was imported/transported to LI by someone who was very local to the area. This is also pretty consistent with Maureen and Melissa's disappearances. Theres also Jessica Taylor as well who disappeared from NYC, according to her bf/pimp he believed she actually disappeared from Queens Plaza.

I still believe that the guy responsible for this is not driving the ~5o miles out to the city to get them and bring them back, I believe he is already in the city and has a reason to be there (likely work or maybe even recreation) and it is very convenient for him to find prey and bring it back to his comfort zone. I'm not ruling out the possibility of her being picked up in AC either. AC is notorious for this kind of activity and as I mentioned, an extremely popular destination for people on Long Island.

It's no coincidence to me that the later victims (Amber & Megan) both disappeared from Suffolk County. This to me says that the rising popularity of the websites enabled the killer to find suitable victims that were more geographically convenient. I know these sites were around for sometime but it is possible the LISK wasn't used to navigating them and using them to find girls in Suffolk County until the later years.

Yeah, I've actually done a heckuva journey myself beginning in southern Brooklyn, up to Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn, and out to Jones Beach for a concert at the amphitheater there and then back into the city. (Anecdotally, yes, the roads out there in the dark by the water are terrifying and utterly deserted. I thought about it while driving it without even knowing that was LISK area. I've only since learned more about LISK.) Anyway, the transit would be a nightmare for anyone depending on it to get around. I can't think of anybody who would agree to spend 90 minutes on a train to NYC, then another 90 minutes or more on a train and a bus to a coastal slip of land on Long Island all for a brief job, then turn around to come back. Maybe I could understand it if she were spending an entire weekend in NYC with a hotel. But even just waiting for the LIRR to show up and get back to the city was horrendous. So I totally agree, I think there is a NYC connection there for sure, definitely some of the hunting ground.

Now as far as Atlantic City, that would be more sensible for her to operate out of, so you make a good point that it could also be a hunting ground. Though, that's a three-hour drive back to Long Island, so if she was found in AC, the killer drove her three hours or more back up north. That's a risky move to have a body in a vehicle for that long on toll roads. So I'm still leaning NYC because of that.

And you also make a good point that the killer had to live in the area given that so many of the women were local to Suffolk County/Nassau County. If their main residence was LI, I would assume the primary motivation to visit the city is sports or events. Especially as that one mystery call came through with Madison Square Garden pings (which could also be Penn Station). "Honey, I'm going to the city tonight for a game" sounds like a good way to buy hours upon hours of free time with an alibi, especially if they're actually purchasing those tickets. Someone just buying up tickets like that would have money. And given the look of Oak Beach and Manorville, if the killer lives there, they have money.

 

[madamx]

I think there may be a link between Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor.

Jessica
5'3", 125, brown hair, green eyes

Valerie
5'0", 100, brown hair, hazel eyes

Both have records of prostitution in Atlantic City area

Both early 20s

Both bodies found in Manorville and both heads and hands found on Ocean Parkway

It could be a coincidence that Valerie used the alias Melissa Taylor, or maybe not.

Also wonder if Fire Island Jane Doe is connected.

Yes Jess, I totally see it.. and I also feel they def are connected.. along with Fire Island Jane doe . They have the similar features especially the nose, thick lips and pout. And all of them their heads were separate from their bodies.

 

[Manwel]

Some of you are commenting on the victims not being reported missing... if you have never tried to file a missing person report on a person from out of state without knowing exactly where they went missing from, let me educate you on how it goes... Police will just argue with you about whose jurisdiction it is and won't take the report. You'll get mad and call State police who will tell you to file from where the last place the victim was known to be is, so you become an investigator yourself and call abd talk to everyone you can think of only to learn they've been seen in several jurisdictions by various people and no one is sure of a time line so you are no better off.

You'll get even more upset and call the the FBI and leave your case on the answering machine never speaking to a person and never getting a confirmation that anything will be done which you get fair warning of on the answering machine.

You will eventually try to reach out to the news stations who will tell you they don't put these stories on the news without a police report number, that you don't have because no one will take the report.

So eventually you realize you're in this alone and you just put posters up and join missing persons groups and listen to how the families of other missing people were treated similar.

You cling to the hope they're out there living a good life they didn't want you to be a part of because it gives you hope but in the back of your mind you fear they could be dead. But the nagging questions, where are you? Just loops incessantly in any spare time you have.

You might try to hire a private investigator if you have the means to do so. But essentially you just slowly lose your mind and wait for a phone call to come.

Sometimes loved ones shut you out despite your efforts. Sometimes you can't get law enforcement to cooperate. Don't make the family feel worse they probably already do.

Before anyone asks, I'm not connected to this case but I did have a loved one go missing and it was a nightmare getting police to take the report. In the end, we solved the case ourselves by posting our own missing person reports on the internet and someone contacted us directly with a lead after they made several phone calls to police trying to report a tip and never getting a call back. Our story has a happy ending luckily. Not everyone is so lucky.

It's not always law enforcement's fault, I recognize but I'll never forget how impossible it was to get them to care in our case.

I had such a feeling this was likely. I mentioned earlier tonight, I wouldn't just equate no missing persons report with no feelings from family. I'm sure there's a struggle involved with getting it filed, especially with reporting a family member missing and having to tell police, "Well, I think she worked as an escort." I can already picture the heavy-set white man listening to this story and automatically disregarding it. (Not all situations but probably too often.)

 

[Manwel]

Yes Jess, I totally see it.. and I also feel they def are connected.. along with Fire Island Jane doe . They have the similar features especially the nose, thick lips and pout. And all of them their heads were separate from their bodies.

That's uncanny, really. What's that type of serial killer? They get obsessed with a woman and then recreate fantasies involving women who look like the original? You could even say GSK did that with Bonnie?

 

[findgarymathias]

Given the time period and the fact that this female victim was found months after death missing her left shoe, I wonder if she could be connected to LISK / Bittrolff.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[acutename]

Sure, but every family is different. The NY Daily News article says she was never reported as a missing person but her family and friends were "left searching for answers." I mean, it might also be that they assumed she was dead since she disappeared without a trace. Instead of filing a report, they just assumed the worst. Depending on education level and background, they may not have considered what value there would be in filing that report. Especially if they knew what work she was engaged in. They never would have imagined their relative would receive publicity as a victim of an unnamed serial killer 20 years later, or that a missing persons report would have made this process easier. It just depends on the family and what they think they'll get from it. Unfortunately they made that call for some reason.

If we go back to assuming she was close with the family and she visited the Port Republic area frequently, then yeah, I would definitely look at the hours and days after she left as an indication of her abduction. But given the profile on this killer—picks up women in the sex industry—he's not likely to have found her near her parents' house in Jersey. She probably returned to Philadelphia and then did a job in NYC. That adds to the theory that the killer works or even lives in NYC, at least part-time, given that she was found in Manorville/Gilgo. I find it hard to believe that a Philadelphia-based escort would travel to NYC and then even further out onto Long Island for a job. Coming into NYC from Philly is easy, but then traveling out to Long Island? Waste of train time.

I some how picture the killer saying: "let's go for a ride to the beach..." but maybe that is totally wrong. maybe they were all dead by the time they were in a vehicle with him.

 

[Jscv]

More pictures of Valerie in this article;

Investigators use DNA, genetic genealogy to ID another victim of Long Island serial murders

That article says that she was a Craigslist escort. I wonder if that's actually been confirmed. It seems really early in the Craigslist days to have been advertising on there.

 

[kdsmith21]

Sorry if this has been mentioned but who had her son when she went missing?

 

[Al Ka]

A bit of extra information not mentioned yet here
===
The Suffolk County Police Department is believed to be the first law enforcement agency in New York to successfully utilize genetic genealogy, which uses DNA testing to determine relationships between individuals, find genetic matches and discover one's ancestry. The “Golden State Killer” was captured using such technology.

Hart said they used the technology to first connect Mack to her aunt.

"That was our first in person encounter with somebody from Valerie's family. We were able to eventually find Valerie's sister. We were then led and pointed to Valerie Mack's son," Hart said.

Police are trying to determine Mack's connection to Long Island.

"We are investigating that currently to find out exactly why she was here during that time period," Hart said.

Police Release Identity Of Gilgo Beach Murder Victim

 

[Jscv]

Yeah, I think there's a lot of desire to put it all on Bittrolff because details look good for him. Manorville/Shirley, women in the sex industry, early 90s murders that were easy to find. It's hard to ignore. I think the most incriminating thing for me is the disappearances/remains seem to have stopped when he was arrested.

In March 2012 were the Manorville Hills County Park remains, which had been dead a week. (There does not appear to be a lot of information on that case.) If that person was not murdered by the same person who killed the Gilgo Beach 4, then the last (known) victims were two of the 2010 Gilgo Beach 4. (The third went missing in 2007, and the fourth went missing in July 2009.) So you narrow your most recent LISK victims down to 2010 OR 2012. (All other remains found after 2010 were killed pre-2010.)

What preceded the Gilgo Beach 4?

Shannon Gilbert. On May 1, 2010, she is killed in Oak Beach, just seven miles from where the Gilgo Beach 4 will be found only months later. A canine unit looking for Gilbert discovers the Gilgo Beach 4. We know that Megan Waterman goes missing after June 5, 2010. Then Amber Lynn Costello after September 2, 2010. Presumably, Amber Lynn Costello is the last known victim. (Natasha Jugo sounds like a suicide, IMHO.) When they are found due to the search for Shannon Gilbert, they have the media's attention and speculation. No more post-2010 victims are found on Gilgo Beach nor in Manorville with the exception of this 2012 female found by a jogger. From 2011 until July 2014, when Bittrolff is charged with the murders of two women in the 1990s, police find all the remains of those murdered before 2010.

Since Bittrolff was taken into police custody, there haven't been any missing women found dismembered in that area.

But they have been found in Brooklyn and the Bronx.

There have also been cameras installed in the area of ocean parkway since the bodies have been found. No way any fresh ones will turn up

 

[Jscv]

Sorry if this has been mentioned but who had her son when she went missing?

Her bf had custody and she would occasionally visit.

 

[LR1]

In March 2012 were the Manorville Hills County Park remains, which had been dead a week. (There does not appear to be a lot of information on that case.)

That was a overdose, her husband/BF was arrested, articles abound.