Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[44ALLAN]

I may not believe everything I read in the press but I do think this story is true.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

BIB answers your own thoughts IMO

It's not fact it's conjecture on our part that CP did the dirty deed and we need to believe it to hate him and his family more.
Sorry to say it but i'm in the same boat and think capital punishment would be appropriate for what OP did.

I still need to see 'any' evidence whatsoever that CP did what he is accused of before I put the noose round his neck.
Kangaroo courts went out with flared jeans and segs in the soles of brogue shoes :flashback::flashback:

 

[foxbluff]

Carl Pistorius retweeted
John Piper @JohnPiper · Nov 8

Make some choices that don’t make sense unless you will be raised from the dead. 1 Corinthians 5:19

Say What!?!? Geesh... I doubt I'll live long enough to make any sense out of that verse. :floorlaugh:

 

[foxbluff]

I'm assuming that the tweet below is in reference to setting a Court date for Judge M. to hear arguments from both sides on whether the State should be given leave to appeal verdict and sentence.

7 Nov Karyn Maughan @karynmaughan
State has proposed 18 November for date of leave to appeal application. Defense hasn't agreed, wants date in Dec @eNCAnews

 

[foxbluff]

BIB answers your own thoughts IMO

It's not fact it's conjecture on our part that CP did the dirty deed and we need to believe it to hate him and his family more.
Sorry to say it but i'm in the same boat and think capital punishment would be appropriate for what OP did.

I still need to see 'any' evidence whatsoever that CP did what he is accused of before I put the noose round his neck.
Kangaroo courts went out with flared jeans and segs in the soles of brogue shoes :flashback::flashback:

I don't believe everything I read either. I was puzzled, however, over an exchange that took place during the trial... something which indicated the lawyers had CP's phone data in hand... and iirc Nel was asked it he wanted that data filed with court and his reply was no. I have absolutely no idea where I got this from so please don't put too much weight on it.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I don't believe everything I read either. I was puzzled, however, over an exchange that took place during the trial... something which indicated the lawyers had CP's phone data in hand... and iirc Nel was asked it he wanted that data filed with court and his reply was no. I have absolutely no idea where I got this from so please don't put too much weight on it.

Nel had several pages taken from the court prosecution file and asked the Judge to remove them from the proceedings. It is thought this was to do with Carl and telephones. I think this is the agreement that Roux and Nel came to with respect to Botha appearing or not as was the case.

 

[Val1]

I may not believe everything I read in the press but I do think this story is true.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/carl-pistorius-dodged-charge/

Just a followup to that, a couple of exerpts of what has been discovered about the "missing" cellphone ....

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-mysterious-babyshoes/

As the contents of that phone were largely wiped, it was difficult for investigators to establish conclusively what activity took place via that phone.

However, they did have phone records from Vodacom, which formed part of the exhibits.

This meant they could see who Oscar had been talking to or exchanging messages with, but they could not see the contents of those messages or know what the conversations were about.

On the eve of Valentine’s Day, Oscar arrived home while still on the phone to Edkins. It is a conversation police did not identify and Oscar did not speak about in his evidence.

Who was to say what relevance or consequence this could have had to the state’s case or if it would have swayed [Judge Thokozile] Masipa at all if the police investigations had unearthed it?

 

[Interested Bystander]

BIB answers your own thoughts IMO

It's not fact it's conjecture on our part that CP did the dirty deed and we need to believe it to hate him and his family more.
Sorry to say it but i'm in the same boat and think capital punishment would be appropriate for what OP did.

I still need to see 'any' evidence whatsoever that CP did what he is accused of before I put the noose round his neck.
Kangaroo courts went out with flared jeans and segs in the soles of brogue shoes :flashback::flashback:

Well I don't believe in capital punishment but I do believe in justice being served which IMO it has not.

The DT handed over the phone to the PT at the Bail Hearing admitting it had been taken from the crime scene (a criminal offence). This phone disappeared before the forensic police arrived. So who was there? Carl, Aimee, the Standers, Oldwage. Take your pick - who pocketed the phone and wiped it. Apple confirmed it had been wiped but there was some information left on it which indicated that Carl had it in his possession at some stage.

Deals are regularly done in prosecutions. Felons are given immunity from prosecution (though are known to be guilty of an offence) in order to trap a bigger fish. It happens.

This is a slightly different situation but whoever took the phone (and don't try to tell me the DT didn't know who took it) was given immunity from prosecution for a reason that was important to the PT and why were Carl's phone data records removed from the Court Files? This is recorded on the videos of the court proceedings. Even Uncle Arnold has suggested nothing of import to the trial was removed.

 

[JudgeJudi]

A lot of this is paraphrased because of the 10% copyright rule.

Prison authorities are doing their utmost to ensure he’s well cared for and are even building him his own special bath (he’s a special person dontcha know) because it’s difficult for diddums to shower. Because of his disability, it’s easier for him to take a bath where he’s is away from other prisoners. It’s for his exclusive use at the moment but will be available to other inmates in the future. No doubt this means in either 10 1/2 months ... or X years.

[In another article the Department said the planning for the bathroom started a long time ago and was “part of a three year repair and maintenance program and was due for completion on 31 May 2014”, but how very convenient that this work is starting a couple of weeks into OP’s sentence.]
http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-wont-have-special-bathroom-dept

A fellow inmate had an argument with prison wardens which resulted in him smashing a television set. “Later, he put a plug into a basin and left the tap running – flooding the entire section. Pistorius then had to be moved because it was feared he might slip and hurt himself. It was so badly flooded that inmates were almost swimming, and this was seen as too dangerous”. However, OP’s not the only amputee in that section and there was no mention of any of those inmates being moved to temporary accommodation. The temporary single cells are a lot smaller and a lot less comfortable and security is said to be a lot tighter. Another source confirmed the new bathroom is being built “so that Oscar does not have to walk past a number of prisoners to get to the toilet”. He’ll be moved back to his original cell once the damage has been repaired. He doesn't have to walk past a number of prisoners? What a prima donna. Can you believe that.

A fellow prisoner, Krejcir, shared his birthday cake which was delivered to the prison … take in as opposed to takeout … and shared it with others including OP.

OP doesn’t mingle with other inmates, even at meal times, and has become extremely depressed. Inmates have suggested he see a counsellor and said that he wouldn’t be regarded as a sissy if he asked for help. A source said he’s cried on occasion, is really battling with prison, and apparently “frustrated by the fact that everyone around him is so negative. (Well OP doesn't exactly sound like a bundle of joy) Other inmates and wardens feel sorry for him or ashamed of his fall from grace and keep burdening him with their feelings. He is so tired of everybody wanting something from him and just wants to think positively and believe in God that his ordeal will soon be over. (I wonder what they want from him. Maybe some of aunt Lois's homemade goodies). Afrikaans-speaking inmates were looking out for him. He won’t get into any trouble as he is being protected” .
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-gets-private-bath/

On a different note:

“But some South African legal experts said the conversion of prison time to house arrest was not automatic and required negotiations with the correctional authorities. After serving half the sentence, Mr. Pistorius can also apply for parole”.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/22/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-sentenced.html?_r=0

 

[Cherwell]

A fellow inmate had an argument with prison wardens which resulted in him smashing a television set. “Later, he put a plug into a basin and left the tap running – flooding the entire section. Pistorius then had to be moved because it was feared he might slip and hurt himself. It was so badly flooded that inmates were almost swimming, and this was seen as too dangerous”. However, OP’s not the only amputee in that section and there was no mention of any of those inmates being moved to temporary accommodation. The temporary single cells are a lot smaller and a lot less comfortable and security is said to be a lot tighter.

It sounds from this as though he's not the only one who's been moved.

"Pistorius and the awaiting-trial prisoners with whom he is being kept are to be moved back to their original cells as soon as the flood damage has been repaired."
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-gets-private-bath/

 

[Val1]

A lot of this is paraphrased to get it all in.

Prison authorities are doing their utmost to ensure he’s well cared for and are even building him his own special bath (he’s a special person dontcha know) because it’s difficult for diddums to shower. Because of his disability, it’s easier for him to take a bath where he’s is away from other prisoners. It’s for his exclusive use at the moment but will be available to other inmates in the future. No doubt this means in either 10 1/2 months ... or X years.

[In another article the Department said the planning for the bathroom started a long time ago and was “part of a three year repair and maintenance program and was due for completion on 31 May 2014”, but how very convenient that this work is starting a couple of weeks into OP’s sentence.]
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Dept-No-special-bathroom-for-Oscar-20141109]

A fellow inmate had an argument with prison wardens which resulted in him smashing a television set. “Later, he put a plug into a basin and left the tap running – flooding the entire section. Pistorius then had to be moved because it was feared he might slip and hurt himself. It was so badly flooded that inmates were almost swimming, and this was seen as too dangerous”. However, OP’s not the only amputee in that section and there was no mention of any of those inmates being moved to temporary accommodation. The temporary single cells are a lot smaller and a lot less comfortable and security is said to be a lot tighter. Another source confirmed the new bathroom is being built “so that Oscar does not have to walk past a number of prisoners to get to the toilet”. He’ll be moved back to his original cell once the damage has been repaired. He doesn't have to walk past a number of prisoners? What a prima donna. Can you believe that.

A fellow prisoner, Krejcir, shared his birthday cake which was delivered to the prison … take in as opposed to takeout … and shared it with others including OP.

OP doesn’t mingle with other inmates, even at meal times, and has become extremely depressed. Inmates have suggested he see a counsellor and said that he wouldn’t be regarded as a sissy if he asked for help. A source said he’s cried on occasion, is really battling with prison, and apparently “frustrated by the fact that everyone around him is so negative. (Well OP doesn't exactly sound like a bundle of joy) Other inmates and wardens feel sorry for him or ashamed of his fall from grace and keep burdening him with their feelings. He is so tired of everybody wanting something from him and just wants to think positively and believe in God that his ordeal will soon be over. (I wonder what they want from him. Maybe some of aunt Lois's homemade goodies). Afrikaans-speaking inmates were looking out for him. He won’t get into any trouble as he is being protected” .
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-gets-private-bath/

“But some South African legal experts said the conversion of prison time to house arrest was not automatic and required negotiations with the correctional authorities. After serving half the sentence, Mr. Pistorius can also apply for parole”.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/22/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-sentenced.html?_r=0

You forgot the little tidbit that he has apparently not seen the inside of a real jail cell.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-deurmekaar-prison-boss/

Monama said Pistorius had been placed in a side ward single cell in the hospital wing of the Pretoria prison.

 

[soozieqtips]

You forgot the little tidbit that he has apparently not seen the inside of a real jail cell.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-deurmekaar-prison-boss/

I wonder how many of the staff are fans / OP supporters. He can have his own select group of fawning bodyguards.

Not to be sniffed at now he can't have a gun!

 

[Val1]

Say What!?!? Geesh... I doubt I'll live long enough to make any sense out of that verse. :floorlaugh:

He's probably trying to imply that non-christians wouldn't understand the choices he has made(his family is so pious...take your pick of what that means, see below) while urging others to do what they think will benefit them in the afterlife.

pious
- adjective
1.
having or showing a dutiful spirit of reverence for God or an earnest wish to fulfill religious obligations.
2.
characterized by a hypocritical concern with virtue or religious devotion; sanctimonious.
3.
practiced or used in the name of real or pretended religious motives, or for some ostensibly good object; falsely earnest or sincere:
a pious deception.

 

[Val1]

Just wondering, has anymore been made of this article? Perhaps that's what his offshore accounts were for, maybe as a frequent international traveler he used to help with deliveries abroad? Apparently he had no compunction over taking mere government employees to task for trying to do their job(don't you know who he is after all?!) by unloading his "one up" unsecured pistol or perhaps even making him submit to baggage/body inspections. Seriously, diamonds are still big business.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-diamonds/

 

[JudgeJudi]

It sounds from this as though he's not the only one who's been moved.

"Pistorius and the awaiting-trial prisoners with whom he is being kept are to be moved back to their original cells as soon as the flood damage has been repaired."
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-gets-private-bath/

It is a bit confusing, however “Pistorius was previously housed in the prison’s EF section, but had to be moved after Etienne Kabila – who is awaiting trial for plotting to overthrow his half brother, Democratic Republic of Congo President Joseph Kabila – allegedly flooded the cells.

Pistorius has been moved to the B section of the prison near the hospital wing, where he has his own private cell. Among his neighbours is Czech fugitive Radovan Krejčíř, whom City Press understands has his own television in his cell that is hooked up to DStv.

Pistorius and the awaiting-trial prisoners with whom he is being kept are to be moved back to their original cells as soon as the flood damage has been repaired”.

The following article says …

“Marumo Moerane, for the DCS, said Krejcir was moved to a single cell because he was a prisoner awaiting trial who needed to be separated from those already sentenced.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/04/04/krejcir-application-for-more-freedom-in-jail-rejected

Prisoners on remand (awaiting trial) are always separated from convicted criminals. Krejcir hasn't been sentenced yet.

 

[IndianSummer]

'

A lot of this is paraphrased to get it all in.

Prison authorities are doing their utmost to ensure he’s well cared for and are even building him his own special bath (he’s a special person dontcha know) because it’s difficult for diddums to shower. Because of his disability, it’s easier for him to take a bath where he’s is away from other prisoners. It’s for his exclusive use at the moment but will be available to other inmates in the future. No doubt this means in either 10 1/2 months ... or X years.

[In another article the Department said the planning for the bathroom started a long time ago and was “part of a three year repair and maintenance program and was due for completion on 31 May 2014”, but how very convenient that this work is starting a couple of weeks into OP’s sentence.]
http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-wont-have-special-bathroom-dept

A fellow inmate had an argument with prison wardens which resulted in him smashing a television set. “Later, he put a plug into a basin and left the tap running – flooding the entire section. Pistorius then had to be moved because it was feared he might slip and hurt himself. It was so badly flooded that inmates were almost swimming, and this was seen as too dangerous”. However, OP’s not the only amputee in that section and there was no mention of any of those inmates being moved to temporary accommodation. The temporary single cells are a lot smaller and a lot less comfortable and security is said to be a lot tighter. Another source confirmed the new bathroom is being built “so that Oscar does not have to walk past a number of prisoners to get to the toilet”. He’ll be moved back to his original cell once the damage has been repaired. He doesn't have to walk past a number of prisoners? What a prima donna. Can you believe that.

A fellow prisoner, Krejcir, shared his birthday cake which was delivered to the prison … take in as opposed to takeout … and shared it with others including OP.

OP doesn’t mingle with other inmates, even at meal times, and has become extremely depressed. Inmates have suggested he see a counsellor and said that he wouldn’t be regarded as a sissy if he asked for help. A source said he’s cried on occasion, is really battling with prison, and apparently “frustrated by the fact that everyone around him is so negative. (Well OP doesn't exactly sound like a bundle of joy) Other inmates and wardens feel sorry for him or ashamed of his fall from grace and keep burdening him with their feelings. He is so tired of everybody wanting something from him and just wants to think positively and believe in God that his ordeal will soon be over. (I wonder what they want from him. Maybe some of aunt Lois's homemade goodies). Afrikaans-speaking inmates were looking out for him. He won’t get into any trouble as he is being protected” .
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-gets-private-bath/

On a different note:

“But some South African legal experts said the conversion of prison time to house arrest was not automatic and required negotiations with the correctional authorities. After serving half the sentence, Mr. Pistorius can also apply for parole”.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/22/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-sentenced.html?_r=0

Thanks for this JJ.
I truly believe KARMA will walk backward to make sure OP lives his due nightmare.

JMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

Just wondering, has anymore been made of this article? Perhaps that's what his offshore accounts were for, maybe as a frequent international traveler he used to help with deliveries abroad? Apparently he had no compunction over taking mere government employees to task for trying to do their job(don't you know who he is after all?!) by unloading his "one up" unsecured pistol or perhaps even making him submit to baggage/body inspections. Seriously, diamonds are still big business.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-diamonds/

I read something about this a long time ago but this is a very interesting article (published 14 September 2014).
OP has made numerous visits to Joburg’s Jewel City where merchants trade in diamonds and gold. He’s been spotted regularly over the past few months according to four independent sources. The security staff who guard the entrance like prison wardens say they see him regularly.

By the time of going to press, “Anneliese Burgess, spokesperson for the Pistorius family, had not responded to questions about whether Oscar was doing business in the diamond and gold industry”.

A source said, “You may not have a criminal record or be facing trial. Oscar would therefore not have been able to get a diamond trader’s licence in the past year”.

The very fact of Anneliese not immediately saying something, anything, says a lot to me. I very much doubt he would have risked taking them overseas. I think he’d be converting cash into diamonds and giving them to Arnold to hold as an investment for his future.

Published 17 September 2014
“De Beers warns of rise in diamond price as stones become even rarer.
Mining firm says dearth of major new mines means production cannot keep up with ever-rising demand from US, China and India. The De Beers diamond mine in Kimberley, South Africa. The company says its mines are becoming depleted.”

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/17/de-beers-rise-diamond-price-stones-rarer

Are you reading this Barry, Kenny or Roxanne? Don’t fret, money is still around. All you have to do is look.

 

[808]

This the documentary "Fastest man with no legs".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ruY-J88B48

See Vicki Miles speak about him, younger Carl and OP water skiing and no signs of GAD or vulnerability.
It's also about his determined efforts to run with the able bodied athletes.

Henke and his doctor say he used to run around all the time on his stumps! (Sorta goes against what his physician said in court from memory.)

 

[JudgeJudi]

Oh no, I just discovered this comment.

Judge Chris N Greenland says:
September 23, 2014 at 8:41 am

I started writing a book on this trial titled “The Oscar Pistorius Trial of the Century. Through the eyes of a Judge.”.
I intended to time its publication with the date of sentencing.
I have decided to dump the project.
This is because I cannot avoid the book now being a very bad indictment on the system and the Court.
It will serve only to bring our system, the Court and the country into further disrepute.
I just don’t have the stomach for such bad karma in my life any more.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/09/20/restitutio/

I want to stamp my feet and have a proper tantrum. I'd be down at the nearest bookstore in the blink of an eye.

ullhair: :tantrum:

 

[jay-jay]

Sorry, but no way....not way AT ALL did I even begin to suggest that violence and DV are in any way acceptable. I am rather appalled that you would choose to take that from my post.

And there is quite clearly a difference between someone losing control and then immediately taking full responsibility and owning up and some one lying through their teeth. The courts recognise that, and so do I.

He would still have been a murderer, still deserved life....but perhaps I, personally, would not have despised him quite so much as I do. You can think otherwise if you wish.

And I do indeed believe most human beings are capable of doing terrible things, in the right circumstances. Very naive not to understand that.

All right, calm down ..

I'll say it again .. I do NOT agree with you that 'everyone' is capable of killing someone in a fit of rage and it's not 'naive' of me to think that .. most people are able to control themselves, no matter how angry they feel inside. Your words were that you could feel sympathetic towards someone who owned up to that, those were your words .. and I'm saying that such people do not deserve any sympathy whatsoever, they should just learn to control their actions, and then that way less women would end up getting killed.

I did say I agreed with the rest of your post though, so I'm not really sure why you are arguing those other points about the courts recognising if someone admits what they've done or if they lie through their teeth. I was purely addressing the bit I had marked in bold in your original post.

 

[jay-jay]

Originally Posted by LemonMousse View Post
Sorry, but no way....not way AT ALL did I even begin to suggest that violence and DV are in any way acceptable. I am rather appalled that you would choose to take that from my post.

And there is quite clearly a difference between someone losing control and then immediately taking full responsibility and owning up and some one lying through their teeth. The courts recognise that, and so do I.

He would still have been a murderer, still deserved life....but perhaps I, personally, would not have despised him quite so much as I do. You can think otherwise if you wish.

And I do indeed believe most human beings are capable of doing terrible things, in the right circumstances. Very naive not to understand that.

BBM - I'm willing to take that a step further. Imho it's not just "most" humans, it's "all" humans.

I don't agree. Are you confusing it with what someone might have to do if they were acting in self-defense? Because, if not, then you are wrong to say that 'all humans' are capable of just flying off the handle and killing someone, just like that.