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[Mountain_Kat]

I personally see no physical resemblances between the AC4 and the GB4. None. What I do see, however, is ALOT of similarities between the cases. In addition to the ritualistic aspects of both dump sites, we have identical causes of death and a lot of similarities in the victims backgrounds.

1. Both groups of women were prostitutes.
2. Both groups of women were drug users (most were addicts).
3. Both groups of women were not local to the area in which they were found.
A). NJ victims: Barbara Briedor was from Penn., Kim Raffo was from Brooklyn, NY., Tracy
Roberts was from Delaware, and Molly Dilts was from Penn. If memory serves, all had only recently come to NJ.
B). LI victims : Maureen was from CT, Megan was from Maine, Amber was from NC (though living in LI at the time of her murder), and Melissa grew up in Buffalo, NY (though living in The Bronx at the time of her murder).

It's not hard to see how LISK might have been responsible for NJ in 2006, and simply evolved from killing "streetwalkers" to killing online escorts between 2007 and god knows when. Assuming LISK is responsible for all 8 murders...where the hell was he in 2008? Why would he spree-kill 4 women in NJ, and then slip into a pattern of taking his time in LI? Maybe because he was only visiting NJ during his killing spree there, but lives in LI, so could take his time with those 4 victims? Is that why he didn't bother to conceal his AC victims? He wasn't going to be there to watch and gloat, so why bother? I dunno. But I do think it's ridiculous for LE to come out and say there doesn't appear to be any connection between AC and LI. I see connections all over the damned place.

 

[CriminalMinds]

I personally see no physical resemblances between the AC4 and the GB4. None. What I do see, however, is ALOT of similarities between the cases. In addition to the ritualistic aspects of both dump sites, we have identical causes of death and a lot of similarities in the victims backgrounds.

1. Both groups of women were prostitutes.
2. Both groups of women were drug users (most were addicts).
3. Both groups of women were not local to the area in which they were found.
A). NJ victims: Barbara Briedor was from Penn., Kim Raffo was from Brooklyn, NY., Tracy
Roberts was from Delaware, and Molly Dilts was from Penn. If memory serves, all had only recently come to NJ.
B). LI victims : Maureen was from CT, Megan was from Maine, Amber was from NC (though living in LI at the time of her murder), and Melissa grew up in Buffalo, NY (though living in The Bronx at the time of her murder).

It's not hard to see how LISK might have been responsible for NJ in 2006, and simply evolved from killing "streetwalkers" to killing online escorts between 2007 and god knows when. Assuming LISK is responsible for all 8 murders...where the hell was he in 2008? Why would he spree-kill 4 women in NJ, and then slip into a pattern of taking his time in LI? Maybe because he was only visiting NJ during his killing spree there, but lives in LI, so could take his time with those 4 victims? Is that why he didn't bother to conceal his AC victims? He wasn't going to be there to watch and gloat, so why bother? I dunno. But I do think it's ridiculous for LE to come out and say there doesn't appear to be any connection between AC and LI. I see connections all over the damned place.

the AC4 resembles a Sunni burial ritual of disrespect/disdain

 

[giagreen]

Agreed about the burlap. Helps camouflage the bodies. Probably also helps keep the bones and such from being scattered by animals and whatnot.

About watching the bodies rot... Is it possible he held onto the bodies for an extended period of time? For the average person that would be extremely unpleasant, but Ted Bundy (as just one example) visited and had relations with the corpses of his victims long after they had died. Sorry for my crudeness.

I always just always naturally assumed the burlap was to keep stray hairs, skin cells, anything such as that nature out of his vehicle and to camouflage the bodies well transporting them.

 

[giagreen]

This guy is local to the area and lives and works within a few miles of the dump site(s) -

He sometimes (or use to) work in or near the city- he may have changed jobs or transfered shortly after Melissa's disappearance as he felt there may be some heat. I also feel there was something more personal about Melissa. Perhaps he had a thing for her or knew her aside from her profession.

He is in his late 40's, married and has kids
His wife is "the boss" at home (like most men She's too good for him and they both know it. She stays with him because it's easier than starting over. She is the primary breadwinner. She has a way of controlling him when he begins to enter a rage. When she's not there to stop it, he becomes dangerous.
She knows he is dangerous but turns a blind eye since he is not abusive to her. He tales his anger toward his wife out on others. Some of the victims may resemble her

People are uncomfortable around him. Although they don't realize why, and most learn to ignore it or file it away.

He has stalking tendencies

He has a gross grandoise delusions.

He may suffer from MPD - people may notice how quickly his demeaner changes or he becomes enraged.

He uses his work as a means to control others. If he is in a power position at work, working beneath him is hell as he seeks out opportunitties to dictate personal lives as well as work life. He may often loses clients (or his job) due to his controlling nature and obsessive and sometimes angry nature.

His work gives him access to the use of numerous vehicles. He uses these vehicles to avoid having any evidence in his own vehicle and for protection in case anyone sees someone picking the girl(s) up

He travels Ocean Parkway often and may find opportunities to bring clients and friends along for a ride on the parkway- (you may wonder why you have gone that route - it's his way of taking a little credit and he may even discuss the case as they drive by the sites)

He may have changed jobs or transfered again shortly after the first of the bodies were found.

He gives clues to those around him. This may be because deep down he wants to be caught because he wants credit for the crimes. Or, it may be that he likes to feel he possess a jhigher intellect and feels he is proving that by dropping clues that nobody seems to catch on to. Someone out there could be putting the clues together

He has revisited the sites and has left clues or trinkets. Look for a meaning to items left at the crosses.

May have recently removed items from the dump sites.

He may have been killing for longer than anyone thinks. Dating back to his late teens or early 20's , either on Long Island or somewhere he went to school or work training. Look for similar style killings in groups of victims (3 or 4) that would have been near his age at the time. He was much younger and able to lure these girls back then.

He is not using the services of these girls prior to the fatal encounters. He would never have sex with an prostitute, He despises them and may have commented about this case or made comments that such women deserve what they got.

He may not be limited to escorts as he evolves once again. He feels there is the potential for entrapment by LE so may not use online ads for victims again. He may look for street level working girls or drug addicts or seek out any vulnerable woman alone at night.

At least one person has thought of him as a potential suspect and he has been looked at by LE already. He may still be on their radar

I tend to agree with most of what you have posted.
But, if he is in his 40's and has been doing this longer then we all know. Then I think it's safe to say it's the opposite. That rather then evolving from escorts to street walkers. I think he evolved from street walkers to escorts. Being that Craigslist has only been available in the New York area sense 2000.
I also do think he does have sex with them and kills them well doing it like the other poster had said. If I remember right he called MB little sister and had actually told her the things he had done with MB sexually. But of course just like everyone els on here this is all JMO.
But I have agree with you...I think you hit it right on the money. I also think he worked or lived near MB. But not because of the phone calls he made to her little sister. I think the phone calls were made because MB had more info on her phone for him to figure out who her little sister was in the first place.

 

[MimiZ]

As Mainegirl believes it's very possible the killer was re visiting the sites where the bodies were left and of course this is very common - I wonder if they would bother using hidden cameras as they had done to catch those who were growing pot but sadly, I don't think they would.

McPadden said highway workers discovered the farm in early May, and authorities installed and camouflaged fixed camera surveillance inside the basin, which the suspects accessed through holes cut in the fence.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...s-seek-second-suspect-1.6060116?firstfree=yes

 

[Clem Snide]

As Mainegirl believes it's very possible the killer was re visiting the sites where the bodies were left and of course this is very common - I wonder if they would bother using hidden cameras as they had done to catch those who were growing pot but sadly, I don't think they would.

McPadden said highway workers discovered the farm in early May, and authorities installed and camouflaged fixed camera surveillance inside the basin, which the suspects accessed through holes cut in the fence.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...s-seek-second-suspect-1.6060116?firstfree=yes

Well, I for one feel safer now.

 

[hawkshaw]

I did a Google Earth search where the AC gals were dumped. I have very limited information as to the entire crime scene. I don't know if the gals had their throats slashed at the dump site or some other site and moved to the dump site. The blood residue or lack of it at the site should tend to indicate that.

The dump site is behind a seedy hotel. The hotel is most likely a location used for prostitution. There is ample opportunity for a person(s) to gain entry to such a location, from the street or from the hotel to dispose of the bodies and go unnoticed.

The reports of the murders at Gilgo and AC appear to be different in the means the killer's used to kill the victims. In AC, the throats were slashed, at Gilgo it appears the victims were suffocated or strangled.

IMO, this doesn't make for an opinion there is no connections between Gilgo and AC.

Let us say the AC gals were killed in the motel. No record of who was there and no connection to the killer. Plenty of time to clean the blood sufficient to clean up obvious blood residue, but never enough time to clean all of it up. This could still present a problem for the killer(s). The more time between the murders and the discovery of the bodies make it that much more difficult to gather blood evidence. The dump site is directly behind the motel.

Serial killers just don't dump bodies in the same location. They are paranoid by nature. Joel Rifkind went to NJ to dump one of his victims. These are IMO, just plain killers that kill prostitutes that are creating problems for them.

At Oak Beach we have a different situation if we believe the gals were killed in a private house. We know that SG was at a house and she wound up dead. Cutting a throat in a private house leaves gobs of forensic evidence that you can never completely erase. Find the house and you will find the killer.

The very idea four gals in AC get their throats cut and at Gilgo the gals are strangled may be a bigger clue than what we may think. The killers of both places may not be the same people, but IMO, they may know of each other because they are in the same business of enslaving woman into the sex and drug trade.

Why wasn't one gal at Gilgo not had her throat cut and the ones at AC all had their throats cut? The blood is what I think is the issue.

 

[MimiZ]

I did a Google Earth search where the AC gals were dumped. I have very limited information as to the entire crime scene. I don't know if the gals had their throats slashed at the dump site or some other site and moved to the dump site. The blood residue or lack of it at the site should tend to indicate that.

The dump site is behind a seedy hotel. The hotel is most likely a location used for prostitution. There is ample opportunity for a person(s) to gain entry to such a location, from the street or from the hotel to dispose of the bodies and go unnoticed.

The reports of the murders at Gilgo and AC appear to be different in the means the killer's used to kill the victims. In AC, the throats were slashed, at Gilgo it appears the victims were suffocated or strangled.

IMO, this doesn't make for an opinion there is no connections between Gilgo and AC.

Let us say the AC gals were killed in the motel. No record of who was there and no connection to the killer. Plenty of time to clean the blood sufficient to clean up obvious blood residue, but never enough time to clean all of it up. This could still present a problem for the killer(s). The more time between the murders and the discovery of the bodies make it that much more difficult to gather blood evidence. The dump site is directly behind the motel.

Serial killers just don't dump bodies in the same location. They are paranoid by nature. Joel Rifkind went to NJ to dump one of his victims. These are IMO, just plain killers that kill prostitutes that are creating problems for them.

At Oak Beach we have a different situation if we believe the gals were killed in a private house. We know that SG was at a house and she wound up dead. Cutting a throat in a private house leaves gobs of forensic evidence that you can never completely erase. Find the house and you will find the killer.

The very idea four gals in AC get their throats cut and at Gilgo the gals are strangled may be a bigger clue than what we may think. The killers of both places may not be the same people, but IMO, they may know of each other because they are in the same business of enslaving woman into the sex and drug trade.

Why wasn't one gal at Gilgo not had her throat cut and the ones at AC all had their throats cut? The blood is what I think is the issue.

I think you must be mistaken. The AC girls weren't slashed - they were strangled or asphyxiated.

 

[hawkshaw]

MIMI, looks like you are correct. I was sloppy reading the AC story. I must have read of throat slashing in other cases of murdered prostitutes. I still think there is some kind of connection between AC and Gilgo. MAY BE.

Just running it up the flagpole to keep the topic alive.

Like I said I don't know much about AC in press accounts because I never read them.

 

[LikeAHunter]

According to the families of the GB4, these women were not in the habit of going to visit johns alone. The family members seem to believe (and Lost Girls seems to imply) that the women must have known and/or been familiar and comfortable with the killer in order to see him alone. This makes a lot of sense to me. If he was just some random dude offering a lot of money for a night, I do think these ladies would have been suspicious and cautious.

That said, SG doesn't seem to fit with the GB4 for some people because she went on the call with a driver. Why would a john plan to or try to kill her knowing that she had "protection"? Well... what if that isn't what he was planning at all?

Perhaps he was new to SG. Perhaps he was in the part of his process in which he gets to know a prostitute and make her feel comfortable and at ease. Perhaps he would ask about her family (thinking about MB's sister here) and get to know her. Perhaps he would make her feel special, or like she had some sort of refuge in him. And then, at some point in time, she would feel comfortable enough to let her guard down and meet him alone. I imagine there would be a significant thrill for the SK in this sort of cat-and-mouse game.

Following on this, perhaps something went wrong when SG was there. And then she had to be "dealt with." The fact that she was dumped so close to the GB4, and that the autopsy results imply (but don't conclude) strangulation... that's too much of a coincidence for me. SKs are narcissistic. Someone trying to cover his butt wouldn't have been so cavalier as to dump Shannon with the others. (And I do believe she was dumped there.) It's much more feasible to me that the SK was spitting in the eye of LE.

So, that's my theory, in a nutshell.

Note: There are too many pages in this thread to carefully review each and every post, so please forgive me if someone else has said this before me!

 

[mayankoza]

According to the families of the GB4, these women were not in the habit of going to visit johns alone. The family members seem to believe (and Lost Girls seems to imply) that the women must have known and/or been familiar and comfortable with the killer in order to see him alone. This makes a lot of sense to me. If he was just some random dude offering a lot of money for a night, I do think these ladies would have been suspicious and cautious.

That said, SG doesn't seem to fit with the GB4 for some people because she went on the call with a driver. Why would a john plan to or try to kill her knowing that she had "protection"? Well... what if that isn't what he was planning at all?

Perhaps he was new to SG. Perhaps he was in the part of his process in which he gets to know a prostitute and make her feel comfortable and at ease. Perhaps he would ask about her family (thinking about MB's sister here) and get to know her. Perhaps he would make her feel special, or like she had some sort of refuge in him. And then, at some point in time, she would feel comfortable enough to let her guard down and meet him alone. I imagine there would be a significant thrill for the SK in this sort of cat-and-mouse game.

Following on this, perhaps something went wrong when SG was there. And then she had to be "dealt with." The fact that she was dumped so close to the GB4, and that the autopsy results imply (but don't conclude) strangulation... that's too much of a coincidence for me. SKs are narcissistic. Someone trying to cover his butt wouldn't have been so cavalier as to dump Shannon with the others. (And I do believe she was dumped there.) It's much more feasible to me that the SK was spitting in the eye of LE.

So, that's my theory, in a nutshell.

Note: There are too many pages in this thread to carefully review each and every post, so please forgive me if someone else has said this before me!

Very Interesting theory. I also believe she was murdered. I also agree with you that he sees them multiple times to gain their trust and comfort and then finally sets up the last date to kill them. I think this guy works in the IT field, possibly in a supervisor or management role, and is a loner. I don't buy the he is super charming, or he is LE or former LE.

 

[giagreen]

According to the families of the GB4, these women were not in the habit of going to visit johns alone. The family members seem to believe (and Lost Girls seems to imply) that the women must have known and/or been familiar and comfortable with the killer in order to see him alone. This makes a lot of sense to me. If he was just some random dude offering a lot of money for a night, I do think these ladies would have been suspicious and cautious.

That said, SG doesn't seem to fit with the GB4 for some people because she went on the call with a driver. Why would a john plan to or try to kill her knowing that she had "protection"? Well... what if that isn't what he was planning at all?

Perhaps he was new to SG. Perhaps he was in the part of his process in which he gets to know a prostitute and make her feel comfortable and at ease. Perhaps he would ask about her family (thinking about MB's sister here) and get to know her. Perhaps he would make her feel special, or like she had some sort of refuge in him. And then, at some point in time, she would feel comfortable enough to let her guard down and meet him alone. I imagine there would be a significant thrill for the SK in this sort of cat-and-mouse game.

Following on this, perhaps something went wrong when SG was there. And then she had to be "dealt with." The fact that she was dumped so close to the GB4, and that the autopsy results imply (but don't conclude) strangulation... that's too much of a coincidence for me. SKs are narcissistic. Someone trying to cover his butt wouldn't have been so cavalier as to dump Shannon with the others. (And I do believe she was dumped there.) It's much more feasible to me that the SK was spitting in the eye of LE.

So, that's my theory, in a nutshell.

Note: There are too many pages in this thread to carefully review each and every post, so please forgive me if someone else has said this before me!

I like your theory.

I've personally always leaned more to these girls were being stalked or snatched off the street. Honestly that makes the most sense to me. But if I were to include SG into the mix then I would have to agree with you.

 

[giagreen]

When I first started to read about this case and get into it a few years ago. I was pretty much convinced that this guy stalked his victims. And SG wasn't involved with the GB4.

But the more I read. The more I can't over look the facts. I can't ignore that SG had to of some how in some way be involved. I am now convinced that she had met the LISK that night. She figured something out or seen something she wasn't suppose to and had to be murdered for her silence.

 

[LikeAHunter]

Very Interesting theory. I also believe she was murdered. I also agree with you that he sees them multiple times to gain their trust and comfort and then finally sets up the last date to kill them. I think this guy works in the IT field, possibly in a supervisor or management role, and is a loner. I don't buy the he is super charming, or he is LE or former LE.

Hmm... so you don't think it's JB then? Someone else in OB? Or someone else entirely?

 

[mainegirl]

Recently I was listening to SCPD scanner feed. It was a Friday night (I'd have to go back and look at notes for the exact date). A young woman was being reported missing by her friend. She had left on a blind date.
The young woman texted her friend "call 911" and then her phone appeared to be turned off.

Her name was Dalina, or Daleena... I don't know of the spelling since there is no way to rewind the scanner feed and replay it.

I have no idea if she eventually turned up or not. May not be related at all, but this woman was a babylon resident and the 1st district was handling the case. I have no idea what the outcome is or if she ever turned up. I'm inclined to believe she has since it's never been on the news. But, this is LI and many go missing without it ever making the news.

It allows things like this to keep happening. People don't have time for other's troubles and with lack of coverage for missing people, by the time anyone that could know something realizes there is even a problem, they have forgotten important details

Related or not, perhaps this could be another means to meet girls. Often escorts do put out personal type adds.

 

[zero dinh]

I just want to say, that this thread was a very interesting read. Some interesting ideas here.

 

[LINative13]

welcome zero

 

[fred&edna]

<modsnip>



Hmmmm... at some point, somewhere, in a thread that may (or may not?) still exist... there was mention of a man who collected dolls. Anyone else remember this? I think it was the guy who wrote the book admitting he was at JB's house the night SG vanished.

(Of note, I can't remember why he included this info (doll collecting) but I thought it was odd... both the collecting of them and the mention of it, but then again, I only read excerpts of the book... never got the whole picture)

 

[Aleph]

The drifter collected "Living Dead" dolls!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

We're back to dolls again?

Round and round and round we go, where we stop nobody knows.