premeditation

[Applejack]

Quick question: how has the defense explained "self-defense" if she cannot recall killing him?

 

[lmkag96]

I believe the state showed premeditation, but like many of us have said, after the OJ and CA trials, I have lost faith. I fear that there will be those jurors that may believe her lies or that they believe she was going there for one of her surprise visits (ie. to spy). I can see them thinking "why would she go there to kill him knowing he had two roommates? They would place her at the scene." or "why would she take pictures placing herself at the scene if she's planning to kill him?". I fear they will see it as a surprise visit that went wrong.

 

[cami]

Looking for people's thoughts on the proposition that the Defendant did not demonstrate premeditation due to the extended period of time she spent with the vic, including their activities, prior to the murder. Here, we know the Defendant spent the entire day with the vic. She didn't walk in and kill him in the doorway. Instead, she allowed him to have sex with her, they took a nap, layed around, even allowed him to take pictures of her in compromising positions.

If she went there with a premeditated and specific intent to kill, wouldn't the act have come much sooner rather than later? Spending 12 hours with your intended victim, taking pictures, being intimate, etc. could seem far beyond the logical point she should/could have emotionally gone, if murder was the sole reason for her visit. Can we say that this lady is actually that much of a psychopath, a black widow of the highest form, pleasuring herself for hours then killing her mate? Is that really this woman?

Looking for your thoughts on whether the 12 hours of leisure, sex, and pictures spent with the vic actually "kills" the State's premeditation theory. [Excuse the pun] Clearly, a juror could find her not "evil" enough to follow the State down this particular theoretical path due to the substantial period of time she spent with the vic prior to the homicide. I'm on the fence, but would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks from the "newbie"!!

Nope because we don't know what lead up to the murder. I don't believe Ms Arias is the type to just pump some bullets into his sleeping form and then leave. She wanted him to know he was dying and she wanted him to know it was her that was killing him. I think she had that day planned out, make him all nice and cosy with the sex and then strike. She may have tried to talk him into taking her back or taking her to Cancun and when he refused once again and told her they were through, the attack started.

Clearly she went there with intent to murder Travis or she would not have made the preparations she did. Staging a burglary and stealing a gun, dying her hair, rental car from 50 mi away, etc.

 

[CheckMate]

Conveniently, she remembered the "line backer" lunge, and the body slam. She didn't remember the killing, but of course remembered the alleged threat of force by Travis, in order to push out a weak, but viable, self defense claim.

It should be noted that Arizona's standard jury instructions and criminal statutes permit the jury to take into account how a victim of domestic violence would have reacted to actions by his/her aggressor. How victims of DV may perceive aggressive actions from their abuser may be perceived differently than from a stranger.

Otherwise, the jury would be instructed on "a reasonable person" or "objective" standard to determine whether the Defendant believed he/she was being threatened with deadly force (rather than non-deadly force). In Arizona, you can only deliver the same or similar force that is being threatened, in order to have a viable self defense claim. So offensive gestures by Travis to Jodi, in light of her ALLEGED history of domestic violence by him, can assist her defense in meeting the burden of proving that she believed she was going to be killed by him, and therefore, met the threat with equal force.

Would a normal person perceive being body slammed or rushed as deadly force? No. (It would be perceived as a battery, or agg batt, max). Therefore, since you can only defend yourself with the force threatened, Jodi's version normally wouldn't stand as a self defense claim. That is exactly why her defense team needed to bring in testimony of Travis' ALLEGED prior domestic violencei. It loosens the burden of proof from "objective" standard to "personal belief standard" as it relates to Jodi's perception of the amount of force being threatened by Travis. The aggressive texts to Jodi from Travis vowing revenge worked well to corroborate this defense. That's all they have, basically. (Skinny - real thin)

Quick question: how has the defense explained "self-defense" if she cannot recall killing him?

 

[looneymama]

If she were really interested in Ryan enough to drive to see him even though she was broke, I find it hard to believe Travis could just "guilt" her into totally changing her plans and coming to see him.

If she were really trying to save money, she would've filled those gas cans somewhere else and not suddenly added a trip to see Travis.

She was being truthful when she said Ryan was an afterthought. He really was. Her first thought was going to see Travis and killing him and everything else was planned around it. Then once she decided to go and see Travis, she didn't tell Ryan she was going to be a little later than expected? Okay...why not? That at the very least shows how inconsiderate she is. She talked to and saw other people too though and didn't tell any of them that visiting Travis was a possibility? Why?

The girl likes to talk. If her phone really died, I'm thinking she would've pulled over somewhere to find her charger.

She drove for a long time, at one point without her phone on. She had a long time to think "Whoa whoa whoa, what am I doing?!?!?" but she just kept going.

Do we even know for sure that she really was there all day? We know she was there at certain parts of the day but do we know for sure she was there the entire time she says? Isn't there a possibility that he could've told her to leave? Like how she said "He grabbed me by my arms and I thought he was going to throw me." isn't there a possibility that at some point he did grab her by her arms and put her outside of his house because she wouldn't leave and she came back when he was in the shower? If it happened that way, that alone would be premeditation wouldn't it? He didn't look like he was posing to me.

 

[BarbWire]

I need to know how or why Jodi changed her plans to visit Travis
Did he contact her or did she contact him?
Do we have proof of they way the contact was made like a text, call ,or email?
Because if he call her and asked her to visit him then it can be premeditated.
If she contacted him and then he asked her to stop by they YES she planed it

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I need to know how or why Jodi changed her plans to visit Travis
Did he contact her or did she contact him?
Do we have proof of they way the contact was made like a text, call ,or email?
Because if he call her and asked her to visit him then it can be premeditated.
If she contacted him and then he asked her to stop by they YES she planed it

Publicly she didn't say it, but it looks like that was her plan all along to go there, by the evidence of premeditation. There were no prior texts or emails about her going there. There is record of phone calls between them while she was on the trip. Her story is he kept on "guilting" her to go there. It's possible he may have asked her to come while on the trip but that was always her plan anyway whether he asked her or not.

 

[cubbeegirl]

Yes to premeditation...all the way , no doubt in my mind that they haven't proved it. I just pray the jury sees it the same way.

 

[Mystymiss]

premeditation!

 

[InTheGarden]

Another for premeditation.

I don't think Travis knew Jodi was coming to visit and that it was a total surprise.

If he knew he was having a house guest, he would not have furniture moved and piled up downstairs in the living area, with a cleaning machine sitting out in the open to clean the floors. The cleaning would have either been completed before the visit or put off until after the visit. He had a beautiful home and obviously took great pride in it.

It's just common sense.

 

[LambChop]

Looking for people's thoughts on the proposition that the Defendant did not demonstrate premeditation due to the extended period of time she spent with the vic, including their activities, prior to the murder. Here, we know the Defendant spent the entire day with the vic. She didn't walk in and kill him in the doorway. Instead, she allowed him to have sex with her, they took a nap, layed around, even allowed him to take pictures of her in compromising positions.

If she went there with a premeditated and specific intent to kill, wouldn't the act have come much sooner rather than later? Spending 12 hours with your intended victim, taking pictures, being intimate, etc. could seem far beyond the logical point she should/could have emotionally gone, if murder was the sole reason for her visit. Can we say that this lady is actually that much of a psychopath, a black widow of the highest form, pleasuring herself for hours then killing her mate? Is that really this woman?

Looking for your thoughts on whether the 12 hours of leisure, sex, and pictures spent with the vic actually "kills" the State's premeditation theory. [Excuse the pun] Clearly, a juror could find her not "evil" enough to follow the State down this particular theoretical path due to the substantial period of time she spent with the vic prior to the homicide. I'm on the fence, but would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks from the "newbie"!!

First of all the time she arrived comes from Jodi. We know the roommate claims to have spoken with Travis at 11:30 in the morning and there was no mention of Jodi. She claims she parked in the driveway yet neither roommate saw the car. We know she took pictures at 1:44pm and that one of the roommates was in the house between 3 and 4pm and was there for over an hour while watching a movie. Travis was killed around 5:30 so it appears Jodi waited until the roommate and his girlfriend left. With the floor cleaner left out on the floor it appears Jodi may have not gotten there until after 11:30 and Travis had started to clean. She may have interrupted what he was doing. His watch and ring were found on the kitchen counter which might indicate he may have washed the kitchen floor or was cleaning the bathroom downstairs before cleaning the floors. He would not want to get this watch wet. Apparently the floor cleaner was not out when the roommate was there at 11:30. If Travis were done he would have put it away. It's just his style of doing things. Second nature to put things back where they belong.

Jodi could have easily looked on his computer around 1pm to see what he last watched which would have been 4am and used that in her lie about what time she arrived. I personally think she slept somewhere on the night of the 3rd and did not drive directly to AZ that evening. She had been up late the night before and was at DB's house before his son went to school and had breakfast with them. That meant she only had a couple of hours sleep. She was running back and forth all day, Walmart, gassing up, salon, etc. so I think she went back to MM's to sleep before getting up and heading out early in the morning for AZ. I don't think it is possible to drive 1400 miles in two days with less than 8 hours sleep.

I also think she could have had sex with Travis knowing he would take a shower afterwards. Looking at the pictures it appears Travis looks tired and maybe they both slept from 2 to 4 and she waited until he was ready to take a shower and told him she was leaving but did not leave. She intended to be out of there as soon as they had sex but did not count on Travis being tired having not slept the night before so there were a lot of things that held her up from him getting into that shower. Obviously she had to wait for him because her intention all along was to get him where he would be trapped in that shower. jmo

 

[neenee15]

Absolutely, not only because of all reasons above but for the mere fact that she went to him over 1000 miles away, he did not go to her, I would think the abuser would be the one chasing... Or seeking her out... Hmmmm ... Makes you wonder who the actual abuser is.

Also i believe when instead of leaving house she went into closet retrieved gun, and again not running down hall and out of bedroom with the gun, she set herself in a position for another confrontation with him in the bathroom, I don't care how fast that all occured, if there is a way to actually leave the premesis she should have.

If I was. Juror my main question would be when did you change your story to self defense? Why should we believe that when you have no evidence to support accusation?

 

[TexMex]

On June 3 Jodi calls Travis at 8:16 a little over 2 minute call-said Travis guilted her into stopping by

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jodi-arias-describes-violent-sex-killing-boyfriend/t/story?id=18538637

She then fills up her gas cans at 8:46 once she has spoken to Travis/knows he'll be there.

Jodi had decided to go through with her plan.


Today her story was "I filed up those gas cans in Pasadena because I was afraid to drive on I-15 (Nevada route!) without extra gas! Which one is it? Can't have it both ways as Juan always says....

 

[commspecialist]

To play 'devil's advocate', is it possible that she took a gun with her because she was afraid of Travis? Maybe she originally took it with her in order to defend herself and did not intend to kill, but ended up doing so out of fear.

I'm leaning towards premeditation but it scares me how people have already sentenced her to death.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Not reading other responses. I voted YES!

I think the gas cans, we full and I have to wonder if they were not to burn the house down or burn his body to help hide evidence and burn the clothes she had that day.



I believe the gas was not for not running out of gas.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

To play 'devil's advocate', is it possible that she took a gun with her because she was afraid of Travis? Maybe she originally took it with her in order to defend herself and did not intend to kill, but ended up doing so out of fear.

I'm leaning towards premeditation but it scares me how people have already sentenced her to death.

No. She had no reason to fear him and if she was in fear of him you DONT GO!!! Drive to a whole other state and meet him alone in his house. She was not afraid.

 

[neenee15]

question guys....

Jodi said she parked the rented car at the house in the middle space like she usually does....well...than wouldn't the roomate that came home that day see it if it was in the driveway? He would have told the detective he saw her that day, and she would have been busted immediately.

Or, seems like he would have seen it leaving for work that morning or when he left; if it was in the garage....

Where was her car parked when she went to see Travis on June 4? That goes to premeditation if nobody saw it at the house?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

To play 'devil's advocate', is it possible that she took a gun with her because she was afraid of Travis?

Why go at all if she's afraid?

 

[Midnight Meddler]

To play 'devil's advocate', is it possible that she took a gun with her because she was afraid of Travis? Maybe she originally took it with her in order to defend herself and did not intend to kill, but ended up doing so out of fear.

I'm leaning towards premeditation but it scares me how people have already sentenced her to death.

Then she would've borrowed her grandfather's gun, but instead, she stole it.

 

[Nali87]

After today?
Oh yeah. :rocker: