premeditation

[lindap61]

:rocker::rocker: I believe she did Premeditate the killing, she knew down deep he would not take her to Cancun or take her as his wife. She wanted him so bad she had to have that last time with him, regardless what he would tell her. She knew she would kill him. She wanted that last time maybe hoping she would win him back so she did not have to kill him. She had to make sure no one was going to be there as well as she knew she had to trick him into a position so she could stab him over and over so he could not over power her. She did that while he was in shower. He fought because he is the one with the defensive wounds not her. He was hurt to bad to stop her. She just had to make sure he really was not going to love her any more before she knew she had to kill him so no one else could have him. I do not think she thought about what after meant, when it come to all the blood. She panic after killing, why it was so sloppy and she did not mean for the camera to go into washing machine, the camera was a ploy to get Travis into a vulnerable position so she could kill him. She looks so surprised when the Detective told her the camera was put into the washing machine. She did not know where it was, I believe. :rocker:

Looking for people's thoughts on the proposition that the Defendant did not demonstrate premeditation due to the extended period of time she spent with the vic, including their activities, prior to the murder. Here, we know the Defendant spent the entire day with the vic. She didn't walk in and kill him in the doorway. Instead, she allowed him to have sex with her, they took a nap, layed around, even allowed him to take pictures of her in compromising positions.

If she went there with a premeditated and specific intent to kill, wouldn't the act have come much sooner rather than later? Spending 12 hours with your intended victim, taking pictures, being intimate, etc. could seem far beyond the logical point she should/could have emotionally gone, if murder was the sole reason for her visit. Can we say that this lady is actually that much of a psychopath, a black widow of the highest form, pleasuring herself for hours then killing her mate? Is that really this woman?

Looking for your thoughts on whether the 12 hours of leisure, sex, and pictures spent with the vic actually "kills" the State's premeditation theory. [Excuse the pun] Clearly, a juror could find her not "evil" enough to follow the State down this particular theoretical path due to the substantial period of time she spent with the vic prior to the homicide. I'm on the fence, but would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks from the "newbie"!!

 

[lindap61]

12 hrs of time with Travis just shows how desperate she was to get him back before she killed him. I believe the jurors will see and does see Jodey as a evil desperate women. To bad they do not know she stalked and slashed his tires and his girl friends tires prior to see her anger before the killing.

 

[lindap61]

Yes, you are so right. Regardless, self defense only works and allows one to only stop the threat. Rather shot or stabbed him she did not stop. She made a decision to slaughter him. Do not get me wrong there was NO self defense like she claims it was murder, per-meditated. :rocker:

If you take away all the evidence such as the rental car, gas cans, hair dye, upside down license plate, etc. there is still premeditated murder.

When Jodi shot or stabbed Travis the first time (whatever you believe to have come first) he was still alive. He made his way to the sink and then down the hall...all the way leaving a trial of blood spatter due to being attacked multiple times.

He was still alive for a minute. During that time before each stab of the knife Jodi formed the intent to murder Travis.

There is no way one can say this is not premeditated murder.

 

[Maryann123]

:rocker::rocker: I believe she did Premeditate the killing, she knew down deep he would not take her to Cancun or take her as his wife. She wanted him so bad she had to have that last time with him, regardless what he would tell her. She knew she would kill him. She wanted that last time maybe hoping she would win him back so she did not have to kill him. She had to make sure no one was going to be there as well as she knew she had to trick him into a position so she could stab him over and over so he could not over power her. She did that while he was in shower. He fought because he is the one with the defensive wounds not her. He was hurt to bad to stop her. She just had to make sure he really was not going to love her any more before she knew she had to kill him so no one else could have him. I do not think she thought about what after meant, when it come to all the blood. She panic after killing, why it was so sloppy and she did not mean for the camera to go into washing machine, the camera was a ploy to get Travis into a vulnerable position so she could kill him. She looks so surprised when the Detective told her the camera was put into the washing machine. She did not know where it was, I believe. :rocker:

You nailed it! Everytime I hear somebody say Jodi would have never left all that blood evidence if she premeditated the murder, I get angry. She never counted on Travis getting out of that shower. She figured all the blood would go down the drain. I guess Travis really screwed up her little plan when he damn well wouldn't die! I think she made a trip downstairs to make sure no roommates had returned home just before she put her plan into action. I've never heard either roommate say they saw a strange car at the house, so I wonder where she parked the car. I know Travis spoke with one of the roommates, because he reported that Travis said he hadn't slept the night before. Obviously, he never mentioned that Jodi was there either. Since the sex pictures were not taken until the afternoon, I have to wonder if Travis even knew Jodi was in the house untill that afternoon. I mean, if he didn't sleep that night, what was he doing? Why no sex the night before? Maybe they did, and I missed it. And I wouldn't take Jodi's word that it happened! Jodi claims she arrived at 2 in the morning. Were any roommates home at that time?

 

[lindap61]

I disagree. I think the State has FAILED to prove the "reflecting" part of premeditation. If you are in the grip of a blind frenzy, you are not REFLECTING on the consequences of your action. A frenzy, by definition, means you are in a manic state and not capable of reflection.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Looks like temporary insanity, only if that were true. Her lawyers knew that would not fly. Best they can do is self defense. Can not see how that has been proven either. Scary world this has become. Mother does not want her child, kills her and dumps her like garbage, after her car smells so bad she can not stand driving with the child in it. Lawyer's blames grandpa ruins his life today claiming child molestation. All with NO PROOF! She walks. J.A wants to plea second degree to escape death penalty, Jurors do not know this, they have so much proof she premeditated this, they even have her admitting to shooting him as well as stabbing him and slitting his throat. Pictures of her dragging him when he was dead. Pic before, during and after the killing . I do not get how some do not think she drove all that way and not planned on killing TA. Jurors do not know she slashed TA tires and his girl friends tires or how she was stalking him. If she should get off with Manslaughter, then everyone of us are in danger because they get off. I guess Travis:banghead: because she took every thing from him and now try's to make him the worst of the worst, throws everyone under the bus because she is worried about Jodie. Not only that, she is a proven lyre. How can any one believe any thing she says?

 

[cecybeans]

If this was her plan, I do not see why she'd choose to kill him over just humiliating him with the release of the tapes.

They may have been recorded before she hatched her plan to kill him. Maybe before her stalking behavior escalated to violence.

 

[deedee21]

I wonder if the reason Jodi would "risk" being caught by Travis's roommate is that she had pre-planned on shooting him also if he showed up during her "frenzy"?

One roommate was house sitting for a friend who was out of town. We dont know that she risked anything. All she needed to know was noone else was there. This is Jodi we are talking about.

 

[cosmos]

I wonder if the reason Jodi would "risk" being caught by Travis's roommate is that she had pre-planned on shooting him also if he showed up during her "frenzy"?

Sounds like the movie "Match Point" where taking an innocent victim (plus some luck) is the key to throwing the police off the trail and the killer not getting caught.

 

[wasnt_me]

You nailed it! Everytime I hear somebody say Jodi would have never left all that blood evidence if she premeditated the murder, I get angry. She never counted on Travis getting out of that shower. She figured all the blood would go down the drain. I guess Travis really screwed up her little plan when he damn well wouldn't die! I think she made a trip downstairs to make sure no roommates had returned home just before she put her plan into action. I've never heard either roommate say they saw a strange car at the house, so I wonder where she parked the car. I know Travis spoke with one of the roommates, because he reported that Travis said he hadn't slept the night before. Obviously, he never mentioned that Jodi was there either. Since the sex pictures were not taken until the afternoon, I have to wonder if Travis even knew Jodi was in the house untill that afternoon. I mean, if he didn't sleep that night, what was he doing? Why no sex the night before? Maybe they did, and I missed it. And I wouldn't take Jodi's word that it happened! Jodi claims she arrived at 2 in the morning. Were any roommates home at that time?

You should read Flores' report. It's very enlightening. Even down to the fact that when he arrived on scene on June 9th at almost midnight, one of the friends who'd gotten into the house told him that Jodi wanted to talk to him.

Can you believe that? Once again--Flores had JUST arrived on the scene when he was informed that Jodi wanted to talk to him. He hadn't even seen Travis or Naps yet, and Jodi was already leaving messages for him.

 

[wasnt_me]

They may have been recorded before she hatched her plan to kill him. Maybe before her stalking behavior escalated to violence.

Jodi prides herself on her reputation. :floorlaugh:

Sorry, I couldn't keep a straight face after I typed that.

Anyways, she acts like her reputation means something when she's talking to Flores in the interrogations. So I don't see why she would have released tapes to anyone that those people could then take to use PROOF that she was a no good *advertiser censored* and bad news for Travis. Ruining him like that would have ruined herself with the Mormons and PPL.

If we know one thing, we know that Travis' friends pointed to Jodi the moment Flores arrived on the scene. None of those people liked her. I wouldn't find her dumb enough to give them ammunition not to like her--which could be why she switched to murder. Who knows.

 

[cosmos]

The thing about the tape is she would only have had to give Travis a tiny hint that she had recorded their phone sex and he would have instantly realized how evil she is and his imagination would have gone wild fearing the worst: loss of standing in church, loss of virginal wife he dreamed of and their family, loss of respect at work, and on and on. That's why, IMO, blackmail was not an issue, nor was there the possibility of her actually releasing the tape, because she didn't have to do those things to hurt him.

 

[Nancy_Drew]

You nailed it! Everytime I hear somebody say Jodi would have never left all that blood evidence if she premeditated the murder, I get angry. She never counted on Travis getting out of that shower. She figured all the blood would go down the drain. I guess Travis really screwed up her little plan when he damn well wouldn't die! I think she made a trip downstairs to make sure no roommates had returned home just before she put her plan into action. I've never heard either roommate say they saw a strange car at the house, so I wonder where she parked the car. I know Travis spoke with one of the roommates, because he reported that Travis said he hadn't slept the night before. Obviously, he never mentioned that Jodi was there either. Since the sex pictures were not taken until the afternoon, I have to wonder if Travis even knew Jodi was in the house untill that afternoon. I mean, if he didn't sleep that night, what was he doing? Why no sex the night before? Maybe they did, and I missed it. And I wouldn't take Jodi's word that it happened! Jodi claims she arrived at 2 in the morning. Were any roommates home at that time?

He probably didn't sleep b/c he was afraid of Jodi showing up... Didn't she call him the night before? I think she showed up unannounced...but maybe when she called Travis she said something that made him worry that she was on her way there...

 

[Nancy_Drew]

It seems as if she might have taken everything that she brought. The rope, the gun, her clothes. If it belonged to travis, she left it. The sheets, the camera, and probably the knife. There was no reason not to take EVERYTHING in a garbage bag and then burn it in the desert--unless you're trying to not call attention to it. A knife in the dishwasher that's normal. Sheets in the washing machine, normal. Camera in it? Not normal, though. That's something I actually thing she might have done on accident.

If Jodi is really such a "literal" person as she portrays herself, I can see that being why she left everything that belonged to Travis there.

I wonder if the roommates would possibly recall if the dishwasher had bee run? I bet they do not want to eat off those dishes any more if it had been.

I think she may have brought the knife with her too... And here's why...

When they arrested her, her car was packed like she was getting ready to leave... Remember, they found her new gun, AND a knife! Why? ...don't you think that is weird, unless she LIKED the idea of having a knife for 'some reason'?!

This is also the same reason why I believe that she would kill again... WHO packs a KNIFE?! (Unless it is an heirloom, or you collect knifes, or IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY STABBED SOMEONE TO DEATH!)

I think she came up with the rope story so no one would suspect that she BROUGHT the knife with her... everyone keeps thinking she came up with the rope story to explain why the knife was in the bathroom... But what if she really came up with the rope story to cover for the fact that SHE BROUGHT IT WITH HER along with her grandpa's gun!

 

[Nancy_Drew]

I think she may have brought the knife with her too... And here's why...

When they arrested her, her car was packed like she was getting ready to leave... Remember, they found her new gun, AND a knife! Why? ...don't you think that is weird, unless she LIKED the idea of having a knife for 'some reason'?!

This is also the same reason why I believe that she would kill again... WHO packs a KNIFE?! (Unless it is an heirloom, or you collect knifes, or IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY STABBED SOMEONE TO DEATH!)

I think she came up with the rope story so no one would suspect that she BROUGHT the knife with her... everyone keeps thinking she came up with the rope story to explain why the knife was in the bathroom... But what if she really came up with the rope story to cover for the fact that SHE BROUGHT IT WITH HER along with her grandpa's gun!

I guess I should have been more specific, my comment was in reference to the following statement:

I wonder if the roommates would possibly recall if the dishwasher had bee run? I bet they do not want to eat off those dishes any more if it had been.

I think she may have brought the knife with her too, along with her grandpa's stolen gun, on her road trip to Murder Travis...


Sorry about that, I hope this makes more sense now...

 

[Nancy_Drew]

Rental car, gas cans, license plates, dyed hair, dead cell phone, etc. all show she spent a great deal of time premeditating the murder. I'm sure her plan included a vision of exactly how the murder was to be committed, but I wrestle with what that vision might be. Did she intend to stage an apparent suicide (shoot Travis in the head, put the gun in his hand, and leave him in the shower not realizing the rarity of .25 cal handguns)? Suicide staging of another variety perhaps (she sure likes the use of the word 'noose' when testifying about the rope and knots)? Was Travis, with his hands tied and his mouth duct-taped, to be marched to the rental car and hauled to the desert for an execution? Was the new Cancun girl to be framed for the murder or to be included as an additional victim? I just don't believe her approach would be, "I'll show up with a gun and knife and just wing it from there." I feel confident things didn't go according to her original plan. Pondering what that original plan might have been is the area that keeps me drawn to this case and keeps me coming to this board hoping that others smarter than me and more familiar with the case can help me sort it out. :banghead:

Great points! That seems very likely that she would tie his hands, and lead him at gunpoint into her rental car and execute him in the desert and then dump gas on him and burn him along with the evidence...

I wonder if she could have moved her car into the garage at some point so the neighbors wouldn't notice if she was planning on taking Travis at gunpoint...

 

[nursebeeme]

she premeditated this completely imhoo .. but bumping up for discussion

 

[rose222]

I think JA bought a knife (in addition to the gun) post-murder because she thought they would try and match her new knife to the kind that was used on Travis (based on his wounds etc.) and it would not fit. She thought she could outsmart everyone. She bought a new gun post-murder to murder again.

 

[geevee]

I think JA bought a knife (in addition to the gun) post-murder because she thought they would try and match her new knife to the kind that was used on Travis (based on his wounds etc.) and it would not fit. She thought she could outsmart everyone. She bought a new gun post-murder to murder again.

This is the best picture of the knife handle that I've been able to get so far, I don't think it looks like any of the knives found in his kitchen:

 

[Katana]

In the interrogation Jodi says if she would have killed Travis then she would have used gloves. She knew this was a planned murder from the get-go. Why bring up gloves if it was a crime of passion?

 

[Ladylub]

I disagree. I think the State has FAILED to prove the "reflecting" part of premeditation. If you are in the grip of a blind frenzy, you are not REFLECTING on the consequences of your action. A frenzy, by definition, means you are in a manic state and not capable of reflection.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

She could have planned to murder him and in the process of Travis fighting for his life, it went from just a plan to kill to a "blind frenzy" b/c he wouldn't die.

Example but true story: I hate bugs, I hate them :furious: and in the mist of killing them I always go from fear of the bug to straight bug murderer once I know I have the upper hand (Yes, that is how bad it is for me. Its as if I'm fighting for my life). I planned to kill the spider with one pop of the shoe, when that sucker moved after, I beat that thing till it wouldn't be recognized as a spider.

I also agree with others that have said if it was Travis' gun why get rid of it. She had to get rid of the gun for some reason and the only logical explanation is that gun traces back to her in some way.

Travis asked Zach's opinion on which camera to buy. Since he had never owned a gun, I feel sure he would have gotten the opinion about which gun to buy from one of the guys with whom he went shooting. NO ONE would have suggested that he get a 25-caliber, a novelty gun. Jodi stole her grandfather's gun. Travis didn't own a gun.

RSBM From reading about a 25-caliber I do not think Travis would have chose that as his gun. He liked nice things. You can tell that by his house and the items inside. I have a feeling that he was that way even with his "toys". I agree he would have asked his friends which gun to get.