Prosecutor Juan Martinez releases new book, February 2016 - #2

[TexMex]

On direct. Nurmi showed her a picture of herself with the dog. The one where she had bi-colored hair. He asked her of her hair was like that when she rented the car on June 2. She said yes.

So with the admission of the Helio phone pics from June 3rd, she check and checkmated herself with that lie.
She dyed her hair between June 2nd and June 3rd whether from platinum blonde to brown or bi color to brown.

 

[TrialWatcher]

TrialWatcher......


ETA...JM saying the tape was "to make him do something." Right. Have sex with her that day, which would lower his guard and get him into the shower.

One of the things I like most about this forum is being pushed to consider new evidence or re-examine my own theories. I've genuinely learnt so much from joining and laughed at your 'theory of the day' quip.

I read Val's posts too and it gives me a fuller understanding of what is behind some of the frustration on certain evidence disputes. Part of the reason the camera planting stuff seems wrong to me is that it is based on another Arias lie in the interview room. I hate her lies. Yet I see that some people don't want to acknowledge Travis had sex with her voluntarily because she is so despised. None of us want to think of her near him in that intimate way. No one here wants to give her an inch or any claim to him because she is a monster.

I see no evidence whatsoever of planting the pics. The evidence supports they were taken from Travis' camera, not transferred. I think he enjoyed sex with her but hated himself for doing so much of the time. Travis' human flaws make him more real to me, not less. The last goodbye session perhaps seemed like a springboard to a new start. How sad is that? And how creepy the thought of her hiding in his house, reading his journal.


The quote you finished with from Juan strikes a chord. I wish he was free to say much much more.

 

[TrialWatcher]

The other stuff is work. Sleuthing is fun. Everyone's allowed work breaks, right?

I'm glad you haven't been stolen entirely by work as I enjoy your posts very much.

 

[Niner]

snipped by me...
Chris Hughes wasn't guessing about whether or not TA "gave" her the BWI or had a contract with her. She asserted the existence of a contract, but when asked by TA's executor to produce it, she "forwarded" an email supposedly sent by TA to her that was so bogus, so obviously manufactured by her, that the executor denied her on the spot.

:wave: glad to "see" you still here! re Bold - have we been lucky enough to "see" this email?? TIA!

I'm glad you haven't been stolen entirely by work as I enjoy your posts very much.

Me too! :happydance:

 

[Val1]

One of the things I like most about this forum is being pushed to consider new evidence or re-examine my own theories. I've genuinely learnt so much from joining and laughed at your 'theory of the day' quip.

I read Val's posts too and it gives me a fuller understanding of what is behind some of the frustration on certain evidence disputes. Part of the reason the camera planting stuff seems wrong to me is that it is based on another Arias lie in the interview room. I hate her lies. Yet I see that some people don't want to acknowledge Travis had sex with her voluntarily because she is so despised. None of us want to think of her near him in that intimate way. No one here wants to give her an inch or any claim to him because she is a monster.

I see no evidence whatsoever of planting the pics. The evidence supports they were taken from Travis' camera, not transferred. I think he enjoyed sex with her but hated himself for doing so much of the time. Travis' human flaws make him more real to me, not less. The last goodbye session perhaps seemed like a springboard to a new start. How sad is that? And how creepy the thought of her hiding in his house, reading his journal.


The quote you finished with from Juan strikes a chord. I wish he was free to say much much more.

BBM - I don't consider TA having used an "old" memory card that could have held previously deleted sexual pics(old enough that most were in unallocated spaces and nothing but a thumbprint still recoverable) as having been "planted". I also saw no evidence(the exif data and/or the dates of the other pics that were not deleted) to prove they hadn't been "planted" or were there from an earlier time(even with possibly manipulated data). I guess that's where my theory differs with some. Just because it aligns with JA's excuses to Det.F. doesn't make it impossible, nor does it mean I believe the majority of anything she has said, in fact most of her lies were laced with just enough truth that it was often hard without indisputable evidence to prove her wrong. As for not wanting to believe that they had had any kind of sexual activity that afternoon, it has nothing to do with hating her, it's my belief that TA would not have flipped and done it.

 

[TrialWatcher]

I would agree with most of that except for a few exceptions - as always, JMO

With Arias, concern is often interest in - Arias. The examples you give seem to me to be self-interest rather than reputation issues

She certainly seemed concerned that people knew she was arrested, including Travis' family.

She wanted to know what was going on. Her interest in his family knowing is sadistic in part, assessing media frenzy, perhaps, once it's out.

She was concerned enough to send an 18 page letter to his grandmother and sent flowers.

They interview sessions show that she was reluctant to do this. The female detective tried to prick her conscience numerous times. Her eventual effort appears to be nothing more than an attempt to concrete her alibi. It was also, sinisterly, repulsively desperate to show his family that she was close to him. She was triumphant in interviews, glowing as she falsified how close she was to Travis.


She tried (and eventually failed) to have her testimony omitted from public scrutiny.

She had people tweeting for her during trial.

This seemed more about getting her message out. Controlling what that message would be. Her 'reputation' was indefensible anyway.

I tend to believe that she was insane enough to be clueless about what most people thought about her, and when she directly found out it was negative, she would negate their importance (oh well, I don't care and bout those people anyway).

Yes - I agree. She is insane enough but that's the point about reputation. She was mocked and dropped and shunned by Travis' friends but it made no difference. Her reputation was unimportant beyond tricking Travis and to play Mormon. Your last words reveal the real Arias. She genuinely doesn't give a damn beyond achieving her goals. Those shamelessly cruel last words on sentencing show how little it matters what people think of her.

 

[TexMex]

With Arias, concern is often interest in - Arias. The examples you give seem to me to be self-interest rather than reputation issues

She certainly seemed concerned that people knew she was arrested, including Travis' family.

She wanted to know what was going on. Her interest in his family knowing is sadistic in part, assessing media frenzy, perhaps, once it's out.

She was concerned enough to send an 18 page letter to his grandmother and sent flowers.

They interview sessions show that she was reluctant to do this. The female detective tried to prick her conscience numerous times. Her eventual effort appears to be nothing more than an attempt to concrete her alibi. It was also, sinisterly, repulsively desperate to show his family that she was close to him. She was triumphant in interviews, glowing as she falsified how close she was to Travis.


She tried (and eventually failed) to have her testimony omitted from public scrutiny.

She had people tweeting for her during trial.

This seemed more about getting her message out. Controlling what that message would be. Her 'reputation' was indefensible anyway.

I tend to believe that she was insane enough to be clueless about what most people thought about her, and when she directly found out it was negative, she would negate their importance (oh well, I don't care and bout those people anyway).

Yes - I agree. She is insane enough but that's the point about reputation. She was mocked and dropped and shunned by Travis' friends but it made no difference. Her reputation was unimportant beyond tricking Travis and to play Mormon. Your last words reveal the real Arias. She genuinely doesn't give a damn beyond achieving her goals. Those shamelessly cruel last words on sentencing show how little it matters what people think of her.

Her Mormomism was just a ruse as you say. When the female detective was interrogating her the detective spoke of Jodi's "spirituality" and "faith". Jodi just sat there looking at her as if she had three heads. The Mormon baptism was just to try and marry Travis. After that failed it became a way to manipulate her next target into believing she would be a candidate to be his proper Mormon wife.

 

[TrialWatcher]

When the female detective was interrogating her the detective spoke of Jodi's "spirituality" and "faith". Jodi just sat there looking at her as if she had three heads." - TexMex

Hahaha. That brought back exactly how she was with the female detective. She didn't even pretend to be that interested in putting herself in a good light. Tumbleweed.

 

[TrialWatcher]

Val: "I also saw no evidence(the exif data and/or the dates of the other pics that were not deleted) to prove they hadn't been "planted" or were there from an earlier time(even with possibly manipulated data)."

Val,

There was no evidence because there was no evidence or concern of photo planting or transferring. The reference to memory card mix-up possibilities is via liar Jodi scrabbling for excuses in the interview room as to why she was on Travis' camera There was no dispute about this evidence from prosecution or defence.

The expert testimony was crystal clear that the photos were time stamped by Travis' camera. Travis' camera was not typical in how it stamped files, embedding dates and times that were extracted. You stated that the nude pics were not time covered, only shower pic times dealt with. They were - each exhibit numbered and the time stamps examined or explained by Juan and the witness. The showers pic times are accepted as real. Jodi doesn't deny having sex with Travis. Your belief may be that Travis wouldn't have had sex with her but the evidence proves that they did. I'm open to new evidence or compelling theories but this makes sense to me on no level whatsoever.

 

[krkrjx]

The discipline would have been decided by a committee, and it seems for whatever reason, they did give her a break by not moving her back an incentive step. But the cell/body searches are up to the CO's in charge of her pod and the very ones whose safety depends upon the inmates they guard respecting (or fearing) them. I can see them giving her (and those around her) a good reason to behave themselves, and might also personally believe the official discipline she received was too light.

As for contact visits not being much, I suspect that's felt differently by someone who hasn't had any person to person contact for years, other than from their attorneys. IIRC, she was always behind glass in Estrella, so it's been a long time since she has had that kind of interaction with people who care about her. I agree that they could have (and IMO should have) taken more away from her, but I do think the loss of those contact visits was probably a big deal to JA.

Thanks, I'll accept that. I do hope it is a big deal to her. Still, she had to know there would be consequences so I wonder what made that infraction worthwhile to her.

 

[Hope4More]

One of the things I like most about this forum is being pushed to consider new evidence or re-examine my own theories. I've genuinely learnt so much from joining and laughed at your 'theory of the day' quip.

I read Val's posts too and it gives me a fuller understanding of what is behind some of the frustration on certain evidence disputes. Part of the reason the camera planting stuff seems wrong to me is that it is based on another Arias lie in the interview room. I hate her lies. Yet I see that some people don't want to acknowledge Travis had sex with her voluntarily because she is so despised. None of us want to think of her near him in that intimate way. No one here wants to give her an inch or any claim to him because she is a monster.

I see no evidence whatsoever of planting the pics. The evidence supports they were taken from Travis' camera, not transferred. I think he enjoyed sex with her but hated himself for doing so much of the time. Travis' human flaws make him more real to me, not less. The last goodbye session perhaps seemed like a springboard to a new start. How sad is that? And how creepy the thought of her hiding in his house, reading his journal.


The quote you finished with from Juan strikes a chord. I wish he was free to say much much more.

No. My resistance to believing he had sex with her that day has never had anything to do with my own emotions about the or Travis.

At first, as in 2 years ago, I believed he let her in the door because he felt guilty for his harshness on May 26, and he totally, voluntarily had sex with her.

After finally having access to all his texts, Dec 07 - June 08, and after having read them over and over and made timelines until I was cross-eyed, I know for myself that is wrong.

The cycle Travis refers to on May 26 is evident in the texts. She does something psycho or pushes his buttons or invades his privacy and he gets angry. She plays at apology and is sweetness and light, he feels bad (including about himself) and says sorry, she does it again.

That cycle was broken by May 22. He didn't fall into angry anymore- even told her that ("I'm not angry, but you need to put in writing what you did"). He was past that, because he was seeing her clearly.

More to the point, he did not initiate contact with her again after May 22. Ever. He WAS done with her, even before May 26, when she pushed him past his breaking point, intentionally.

The record says other than what you are saying. Fact is, Travis did not apologize to her as he had always done before, because he felt no need to, because he was really really done with her.

Don't you believe he meant what he wrote on May 26 about hating her and the pain he expressed ? Don't you believe him when he told Regan he was scared of her? This alpha, ultra confident man admitting that to a woman? I believe him.

And I don't believe that man was tempted by her on June 4. At all. Which is why the sex as protection against her idea of yours fits.

 

[Hope4More]

I'm sorry to go way off topic here.....but where is Geevee? I'm worried about her. It looks like she hasn't posted in many days, I know her JM book arrived, yet not a peep from her.

Geevee??

 

[Hope4More]

When the female detective was interrogating her the detective spoke of Jodi's "spirituality" and "faith". Jodi just sat there looking at her as if she had three heads." - TexMex

Hahaha. That brought back exactly how she was with the female detective. She didn't even pretend to be that interested in putting herself in a good light. Tumbleweed.

She cared. She even asked the FO (essentially) about how she could manipulate the media to make herself look better. She wrote to whomever that when when folks honored Travis at an upcoming PPL meeting, to remember she was innocent.

The assault on TA's reputation that began the day his body was found wasn't just about trashing Travis, it was about trashing Travis in order to establish herself as the true victim, and therefore blameless.

That the couldn't see how normal people would respond to what she was alleging doesn't mean she wasn't concerned with her reputation, it just means she's twisted beyond measure.

 

[TrialWatcher]

Hope4More

"Don't you believe he meant what he wrote on May 26 about hating her and the pain he expressed ? Don't you believe him when he told Regan he was scared of her? This alpha, ultra confident man admitting that to a woman? I believe him.

And I don't believe that man was tempted by her on June 4. At all. Which is why the sex as protection against her idea of yours fits."

Oh well, there goes my best guess on why some people adhered to the sex pics photo planting or transfer theory :notgood: as I couldn't see any reason for it whatsoever.

Regarding 26 May, I suspected very early on that Arias unveiled the blackmail sex tape attempt on that day. Travis was scared of her, absolutely. I don't believe he let her in when she said, if at all or that he knew she was arriving.

I disagree that he wasn't tempted to have sex. That doesn't detract from the 'insurance policy' pic possibility. Arias was sexually persuasive and may have sold it as one last 'session'. A way of putting things behind them and moving on. What happened after they had sex, killing aside, is not at all clear.

 

[TrialWatcher]

She cared. She even asked the FO (essentially) about how she could manipulate the media to make herself look better. She wrote to whomever that when when folks honored Travis at an upcoming PPL meeting, to remember she was innocent.

The assault on TA's reputation that began the day his body was found wasn't just about trashing Travis, it was about trashing Travis in order to establish herself as the true victim, and therefore blameless.

That the couldn't see how normal people would respond to what she was alleging doesn't mean she wasn't concerned with her reputation, it just means she's twisted beyond measure.

She cared about getting off with murder. She cared about achieving her goals. I don't think protecting her reputation was of any importance to her beyond trapping Travis. Normal people would care, that is precisely the point. Arias wanted to damage Travis' reputation. That's why she bristled when Detective Flores saw right through her and dismissed 'reputation' talk in terms of Travis and her. She thought it was an ace in her hand. Detective Flores outplayed her.

 

[Hope4More]

Hope4More

"Don't you believe he meant what he wrote on May 26 about hating her and the pain he expressed ? Don't you believe him when he told Regan he was scared of her? This alpha, ultra confident man admitting that to a woman? I believe him.

And I don't believe that man was tempted by her on June 4. At all. Which is why the sex as protection against her idea of yours fits."

Oh well, there goes my best guess on why some people adhered to the sex pics photo planting or transfer theory :notgood: as I couldn't see any reason for it whatsoever.

Regarding 26 May, I suspected very early on that Arias unveiled the blackmail sex tape attempt on that day. Travis was scared of her, absolutely. I don't believe he let her in when she said, if at all or that he knew she was arriving.

I disagree that he wasn't tempted to have sex. That doesn't detract from the 'insurance policy' pic possibility. Arias was sexually persuasive and may have sold it as one last 'session'. A way of putting things behind them and moving on. What happened after they had sex, killing aside, is not at all clear.

The tempted versus not about having sex is one of those entirely subjective points that IMO, without evidence, always rest on what peeps believe or understand about psychology.

I don't believe he was tempted, and beyond everything else I've said to explain why not, for me the photos speak for themselves on that point.

I don't see even a glimmer of happiness or fondness or playfulness or any other positive emotion in those photos. Both of them look grim, IMO, and the pics of her whatnots? There's no way to see those as meant to be erotic , IMO. I've always seen them as hostile. Travis was taking pics of the 3 hole wonder, and there was nothing remotely sentimental about how he saw those holes.

 

[TexMex]

Hope4More

"Don't you believe he meant what he wrote on May 26 about hating her and the pain he expressed ? Don't you believe him when he told Regan he was scared of her? This alpha, ultra confident man admitting that to a woman? I believe him.

And I don't believe that man was tempted by her on June 4. At all. Which is why the sex as protection against her idea of yours fits."

Oh well, there goes my best guess on why some people adhered to the sex pics photo planting or transfer theory :notgood: as I couldn't see any reason for it whatsoever.

Regarding 26 May, I suspected very early on that Arias unveiled the blackmail sex tape attempt on that day. Travis was scared of her, absolutely. I don't believe he let her in when she said, if at all or that he knew she was arriving.

I disagree that he wasn't tempted to have sex. That doesn't detract from the 'insurance policy' pic possibility. Arias was sexually persuasive and may have sold it as one last 'session'. A way of putting things behind them and moving on. What happened after they had sex, killing aside, is not at all clear.

Exactly. She shows up. It's hey there, I brought you a check for two car payments...can I crash here.. I'm on the way to see a guy in Utah but wanted to say in person I'm so sorry about our fight the other night but let's be friends tonight and I'll leave tomorrow..got any KY?

#makeup sex

Travis says in gchat that she knows he always weakens and "you know I'll get pissed but take you back. I'm addicted"

Jodi only needed him to feed his addiction one last time so she could rid herself of her obsession with him and move on with her life

 

[Renee110]

No. 1 reason, because that day was hers. She had never planned on getting caught, and her behavior that day was very revelatory about her character, she didn't want to answer questions because it was too personal to her, and if enough details came out, there would be a point at which her manipulation would become obvious, and that was a part of herself she depended on to never be revealed. Although the facts of the murder had come out, the timeline represented the methodology, and that, at least, was something she was determined to keep private, partly out of spite, and partly because she couldn't risk people seeing the real Jodi.

Steve was responding to Hope4More's musing about JA's inability or refusal to answer questions about the timeline on Murder Day.

I have to say that when I read Hope's post, before I got to Steve's post, my first thought was the reason she took her time and mulled over answers about the timeline was because she delights in frustrating and enraging people, and being in control. She may be IN their control, such as in custody and not free, but they still NEED and WANT something from her and she can drag it out and make them crazy. Her little word games all through the trial, I mean ALL through it, and always about stupid silly stuff showed me that she gets off on that. Juan would say something like "You DO remember when you were answering the jury's questions that you said you HAD stopped for gas early in the morning after leaving Ryan's?" and she would waffle and not commit and say something like well it was in the morning, not that early. And he would pull receipt out and point out the 4 am time.... and the point Juan was making (in MY head) wasn't about the time....it was the fact that every time Juan would say this is something you said, she would try to make it a little bit erroneous... like he got it MOSTLY right, but not QUITE right.... she likes that kind of control, and making you crazy, condescendingly letting you know that you were a little off. So I agree with Steve in that that is just how Jodi rolls. I remember sitting on the couch, watching this trial back when it was live and saying to my friend could you imagine raising her? She has taught herself to win every argument and has a comeback for everything. Impossible to be around imo.

 

[TrialWatcher]

(...)


I don't believe he was tempted, and beyond everything else I've said to explain why not, for me the photos speak for themselves on that point.

I don't see even a glimmer of happiness or fondness or playfulness or any other positive emotion in those photos. Both of them look grim, IMO, and the pics of her whatnots? There's no way to see those as meant to be erotic , IMO. I've always seen them as hostile. Travis was taking pics of the 3 hole wonder, and there was nothing remotely sentimental about how he saw those holes.

The photos show - to put it delicately - a degree of arousal, do they not? The evidence strongly suggests that Travis was tempted by her, physically, at least. The photos do speak for themselves. They show sexual interaction. That is all that was aimed for in court. No one was trying to prove joy, sentimental sex, love. Just sexual interaction.

Are they happy photos? No, many of us here have commented on how gloomy and downbeat they both look. Is there a sentimental way to photograph a woman in such a graphic, *advertiser censored* close-up of her most intimate areas? That mere act alone shows a decided interest on Travis' part, I contend.

 

[krkrjx]

The photos show - to put it delicately - a degree of arousal, do they not? The evidence strongly suggests that Travis was tempted by her, physically, at least. The photos do speak for themselves. They show sexual interaction. That is all that was aimed for in court. No one was trying to prove joy, sentimental sex, love. Just sexual interaction.

Are they happy photos? No, many of us here have commented on how gloomy and downbeat they both look. Is there a sentimental way to photograph a woman in such a graphic, *advertiser censored* close-up of her most intimate areas? That mere act alone shows a decided interest on Travis' part, I contend.

I think the photos are just what they did for whatever reasons. Meaning, those types of photos happened other times in their relationship. They had kinky sex so why not kinky photos. It was their way and I don't really attach a whole lot of special meaning to them.

Now...the shower pics...those have meaning. Those are pre-murder escalating to murder photos and I am still convinced he did not know they were happening at first. He soon became aware of her standing there with the camera but I don't think he was intending to pose for her. He may have done so to humor her but I think he was hoping she'd just leave already! And then it happened...whatever she said or did that let him know that this was no ordinary photo op.

ETA: Sorry for redoing so many times, I can't reach the keyboard because a cat is napping on it!