Questions you'd like answers to...

[mandystrange70]

OMG, no! 😂 was he spotted on it ever, maybe the intruder made his getaway on it. When Smit asked John where the bikes were, cos he hadnt seen any, John said put away in the garage. There was meant to be four, yet Smit couldnt see any (he was blinkered tho) ???

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Does anyone have any thoughts about Doug Stine being with Burke in the basement when JB was killed, ie they did it together. Its brought up as a theory in The Day After Christmas, by Nick Van der Leek & Lisa Wilson, kindle book.

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[mandystrange70]

Does anyone have any thoughts about Doug Stine being with Burke in the basement when JB was killed, ie they did it together. Its brought up as a theory in The Day After Christmas, by Nick Van der Leek & Lisa Wilson, kindle book.

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Sorry Tortoise, im learning slowly . . , but badly [emoji57]

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[Tortoise]

Does anyone have any thoughts about Doug Stine being with Burke in the basement when JB was killed, ie they did it together. Its brought up as a theory in The Day After Christmas, by Nick Van der Leek & Lisa Wilson, kindle book.

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I think it's been more or less dismissed as a theory here, but that doesn't mean it can't have happened of course. I think mainly down to the fact the Ramseys were planning on leaving at such an early hour the next morning.

 

[Tortoise]

Sorry Tortoise, im learning slowly . . , but badly [emoji57]

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Not at all, I don't know why you're apologising.

What do you think of their book? I haven't read it but I'm always impressed that those two manage to get hold of documents and photos that aren't commonly known about.

 

[UKGuy]

Does anyone have any thoughts about Doug Stine being with Burke in the basement when JB was killed, ie they did it together. Its brought up as a theory in The Day After Christmas, by Nick Van der Leek & Lisa Wilson, kindle book.

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mandystrange70,
The DS present theory does not fly, since DS would also have been flying out as a guest with the R's. causing weight and space problems on the plane.

Also there is no forensic evidence supporting DS being present, so the probability of it actually happening is quite low.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Greetings, Miz Adventure. Medical Examiners don't write ARs for laypersons. Generally, they don't write in the AR their interpretations of what they see. The AR is only to record the objective observations they make of what they see during the autopsy.

Dr. Meyer wrote in the AR the following which addresses the brain swelling (edema):

The 1450 gm brain has a normal overall architecture. Mild narrowing of the sulci and flattening of the gyri are seen. No inflammation is identified.
​

The sulci and gyri are the valleys and peaks on the outer surface of the brain that give it a corrugated appearance. Their "narrowing" and "flattening" indicate there was some swelling, but it is not a quantitative measurement. The weight of 1450 grams (1.45 kg) is quantitative and can be compared to other females by age and as a ratio of brain weight to overall body weight. JonBenet's body weight was measured as 45 pounds during autopsy (20.4 kilograms) so the ratio of brain weight to body weight would be 1.45/20.4 x 100 = 7.1 in the following chart (the green line indicates where JonBenet's brain should fall, and the red line shows where it actually did):

So depending on which chart you use, JonBenet's brain weighed anywhere from 20 to almost 25 percent more than average for girls her age and her weight.

Meyer's comment that the brain had a "normal overall architecture" means that he saw no asymmetry or pronounced swelling in any one area. Had he seen (or noted) localized swelling in a small area, or edema only on one lobe, it might be an indication of less time between the head blow and death. IOW, the swelling would probably begin locally at the site of impact and spread to the entire lobe, and then it would possibly spread to the other lobe. But medical/forensic books make note that the swelling response is known to be more rapid in children than in adults.

Meyer also mentions that he was unable to see any inflammation. This to me is somewhat contradictory to the other indications of a longer period of time between the head blow and death (yes, from strangulation). Inflammation is the body's response to an injury. Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of what it is and how it develops. It is not synonymous with "swelling," but swelling is one of the responses (some of them microscopic) that can develop as a result of inflammation. When Meyer wrote in the AR that he couldn't identify any inflammation, he was probably referring to the change in color associated with inflammation. It seems odd to me that since a longer period of time between the two insults should allow enough time for noticeable inflammation to develop, there was none noted on JonBenet's brain. This is one of the reasons I tend to discount that long estimation of time accepted by so many others. "No identifiable inflammation" means the body has not had sufficient time for it to develop from an injury.

Now you know much more than that idiot will ever know -- even if you take the time tell him. Please feel free to copy as much or as little as you wish of anything I write on this forum. I offer it freely to anyone who may find it helpful.

If you'd like to understand a little more about what Dr. Meyer wrote in the AR about the head injuries, you might find the following link helpful:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ll-Fractures-The-Weapon&p=9054790#post9054790

Otg - you're a star! Thank you for taking the time to answer the question, and to find those links.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Does anyone have any thoughts about Doug Stine being with Burke in the basement when JB was killed, ie they did it together. Its brought up as a theory in The Day After Christmas, by Nick Van der Leek & Lisa Wilson, kindle book.

Hi Mandy!

The Stines were eliminated from the enquiry.

The 'intruder' theories - I think this forum has already 'been there done that' and found the IDI theory not to have any basis in reality.

And this website does not encourage posters to name people outside the family as being the perpetrator of the crime.

 

[AB1]

I don't know why but I get the feeling this was said to account for a chemical smell and I also get the feeling it was around JAR's bathroom. I must have read something at one time to make me think that.

How long does it take to dye hair? Presumably there is a time it must be left on then rinsed out and possibly a conditioner applied and then hair dried and styled afterwards. She had a lot going on that day with the neighbourhood kids in the house, supervising them, packing for the cruise, wrapping bags full of gifts...I suppose it's possible, but I think it's unlikely.

BBM
I haven't heard mention of a chemical smell. I'm intrigued.
Any memories where you may have read that?

And on the subject of JAR's room - has anyone considered whether this was STILL PR's room at the time of JBR's death? JR usually seems to reference it as "Patsy's room", but she was in remission at that point.
As to Christmas Day - do we now for certain if JR had taken his own case to the plane i.e. it being the only one packed and ready to go?

 

[mandystrange70]

Hi Mandy!

The Stines were eliminated from the enquiry.

The 'intruder' theories - I think this forum has already 'been there done that' and found the IDI theory not to have any basis in reality.

And this website does not encourage posters to name people outside the family as being the perpetrator of the crime.

Oh im sorry, i didnt realise as i was talking about their book, but i respect i shouldnt have done so

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[mandystrange70]

Not at all, I don't know why you're apologising.

What do you think of their book? I haven't read it but I'm always impressed that those two manage to get hold of documents and photos that aren't commonly known about.

I have read it, and like them both, but i personally dont go with this theory. I dont know where they get their info from, thats thr one thing that puzzles me. I prefer Kolar's theory. I was sleepily rereading some last night, and the reddit questions/answers, and i got the impression although Burke seems to be implied, there was "some type" of "intruder" there also - but i may have nodded off and imagined that!
I cant afford to keeo buying their books, maybe it becomes clearer after no 3?

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[mandystrange70]

BBM
I haven't heard mention of a chemical smell. I'm intrigued.
Any memories where you may have read that?

And on the subject of JAR's room - has anyone considered whether this was STILL PR's room at the time of JBR's death? JR usually seems to reference it as "Patsy's room", but she was in remission at that point.
As to Christmas Day - do we now for certain if JR had taken his own case to the plane i.e. it being the only one packed and ready to go?

I remember reading about the chemical smell too, on one of the threads here i think, but i cant for the life of me remember where.
Dyeing her hair, drying etc would take 2hrs min as a rougb guess, depending on what she's using and doing to it.

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[mandystrange70]

BBM
I haven't heard mention of a chemical smell. I'm intrigued.
Any memories where you may have read that?

And on the subject of JAR's room - has anyone considered whether this was STILL PR's room at the time of JBR's death? JR usually seems to reference it as "Patsy's room", but she was in remission at that point.
As to Christmas Day - do we now for certain if JR had taken his own case to the plane i.e. it being the only one packed and ready to go?

He told police (Steve 'my minds gone blank, whats his surname?') he was just taking his coat cos it was colder there, and his laptop. Everything else was already there from before.

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[AB1]

Perhaps we should start a list of problems or indications of a potential problem, that we know about on Christmas Day.

JBR not liking her new doll
JBR not wanting to wear the red turtleneck
No photos after one or two in their pyjamas
No video recording of a happy family day, in usual matching attire
A photo of PR with red face looking like she's been crying IMO
I couldn't see the lights switched on, on the tree, but maybe that's a poor photo
No lunch, that anyone can remember
JR not playing with the children
JR not taking BR (a plane fanatic) with him to see the plane
Hours missing from his account of the day
PR still wrapping gifts but JR saying he went and loaded gifts on the plane
A missing bag of clothes for the lake, at least according to PR's account
Christmas wrapping paper from opened gifts left on the living room floor, still there next day
A planned and cancelled visit to the Fernie's

more?

Another thing, how likely is it that this wealthy woman PR dyed her own hair and didn't get it done at the hair salon? If it needed doing, why didn't she get it done before their party on 23rd, when they would be seeing so many people?

BBM
The gift that should have been delivered to the Fernies - wasn't it a hamper of fruit? I'll check what JR said on ACandyRose. (Hampers PR had bid on in a charity auction from memory...)

So does the gift appear in any photos of the house? It wouldn't be left in the car as they were going away.
If it was fruit, it would rot while they were away and the smell... So, what fruit might/should have been in the basket? Could that have caused an argument, before or after going to the Whites?

 

[Tortoise]

BBM
The gift that should have been delivered to the Fernies - wasn't it a hamper of fruit? I'll check what JR said on ACandyRose. (Hampers PR had bid on in a charity auction from memory...)

So does the gift appear in any photos of the house? It wouldn't be left in the car as they were going away.
If it was fruit, it would rot while they were away and the smell... So, what fruit might/should have been in the basket? Could that have caused an argument, before or after going to the Whites?

pineapple?

 

[Tortoise]

BBM
I haven't heard mention of a chemical smell. I'm intrigued.
Any memories where you may have read that?

And on the subject of JAR's room - has anyone considered whether this was STILL PR's room at the time of JBR's death? JR usually seems to reference it as "Patsy's room", but she was in remission at that point.
As to Christmas Day - do we now for certain if JR had taken his own case to the plane i.e. it being the only one packed and ready to go?

No, but I do remember that it was a couple of officers at the house that morning who noticed the smell.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was still occasionally Patsy's room. Smit, I think, asked JR why neighbours would have noticed lights in JAR's room (not that night but in general) and he gave a very strange answer, something about his answer getting him into trouble.

They didn't use suitcases on their plane, just bags. His suitcase was for the Disney cruise.

 

[Miz Adventure]

BBM
Exactly.
Did BPD find the dye/rinse packaging? I have never seen any photos of PR's bathroom, only JR's.

I'm a bit confuddled with all this talk about hair dye.

Surely nobody is seriously suggesting that Patsy started dying her hair on that fateful Christmas night? She would have had more than enough to do already, what with the last minute packing etc. (and no help from John who was probably already in bed snoring happily).

Remember - Patsy was wearing exactly the same clothes on the morning of the 26th when the cops called, as she was wearing to the Whites' party the day before.

In any case I suspect Patsy was still wearing wigs. She started wearing these when her hair fell out during chemotherapy treatments.

If there was a chemical smell then maybe it could have been the result of the couple using bleach in order to get rid of tiny blood spatters. Maybe.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm a bit confuddled with all this talk about hair dye.

Surely nobody is seriously suggesting that Patsy started dying her hair on that fateful Christmas night? She would have had more than enough to do already, what with the last minute packing etc. (and no help from John who was probably already in bed snoring happily).

Remember - Patsy was wearing exactly the same clothes on the morning of the 26th when the cops called, as she was wearing to the Whites' party the day before.

In any case I suspect Patsy was still wearing wigs. She started wearing these when her hair fell out during chemotherapy treatments.

If there was a chemical smell then maybe it could have been the result of the couple using bleach in order to get rid of tiny blood spatters. Maybe.

It's in the police interviews. She said she dyed her hair during the afternoon.

 

[Miz Adventure]

It's in the police interviews. She said she dyed her hair during the afternoon.

Oh, during Christmas afternoon, before the party? That's cutting things a bit fine isn't it? Unless she just touched up the roots, the bits that would show?

 

[Tortoise]

Oh, during Christmas afternoon, before the party? That's cutting things a bit fine isn't it? Unless she just touched up the roots, the bits that would show?

I don't believe her, I think she gave that story to account for a smell that officers noticed. And I don't believe the smell of a hair dye would have been noticeable the next day, particularly a dark rinse, she wouldn't have used bleach on her hair colour.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I don't know why but I get the feeling this was said to account for a chemical smell and I also get the feeling it was around JAR's bathroom. I must have read something at one time to make me think that.

How long does it take to dye hair? Presumably there is a time it must be left on then rinsed out and possibly a conditioner applied and then hair dried and styled afterwards. She had a lot going on that day with the neighbourhood kids in the house, supervising them, packing for the cruise, wrapping bags full of gifts...I suppose it's possible, but I think it's unlikely.

I have more hair than Patsy did, but it typically takes me 30-40 minutes to put the dye in. Another 30 minutes for it to set, then a shower to wash it out. Add in drying and styling, probably another 30 minutes.


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