Ransom Note and Common Sense

[Mendara]

Not only did Patsy not tell the dispatcher that, she hung up while the dispatcher was trying to get more information from her. I'd be listening to every instruction given to me by the dispatcher, and I'd follow the instructions to the letter. And common sense would tell me not to call people over, even if I had not read the whole ransom note at that point.

She hung up? I have never heard the call or read a transcript. Is it on candy rose?

 

[SheBoss]

The info in the note might have made the R's suspicious of friends. Someone mentioned an amount of money that says WE KNOW YOU WELL.
John might have stepped outside to see if a car that did not belong in the neighborhood was "watching" the house.
How many people did the R's call. Did they call all the people who showed up or was there a church type phone tree going on?
Do you think the R's suspected a friend and also wanted to see who would show up, couldn't make it --- sorry John and Patsy, I'm just so busy right now, I have your daughter to keep quiet, Christmas and New Years parties to plan, it is going to be a busy week. The amount of money mentioned meant something to the Ramsey's it was plain to them that someone they knew or knew ALOT about them had written the RN. This is supposing that an IDI.

I agree making the 911 call was an absolute necessity, I don't agree it had to made by 10am, regardless who did it. Otherwise you have another Casey Anthony type case where the parents claim we did everything the RN said. It would make them look like they didn't really care to find JBR alive even though they followed the note.

Not waking Burke- parents couldn't deal with telling him anything, in a RDI situation that may be something they didn't discuss, what EXACTLY to tell Burke. Story has to be in essence the same from both parents.
In a IDI situation with 1 child missing and the statement we have your daughter they may not have viewed Burke as being in danger. A daughter is missing and the RN says nothing about we already killed your son, we will get Burke next, don't follow our advice and JBR and Burke are dead. They had no reason to expect Burke would not be alright. The searching for JBR in the house might also be a case of looking for how the kidnapper got in and that JBR is just hiding as she got away from the perp but is too scared to come out.
There really isn't logic going on here when it is thought the R's had to call police by 10am. The only thing they had to do was cancel the flight, someone is sick and can't travel. Tell police after 10 am that they wanted to pay ransom and were too scared to call until no call came from kidnappers then they really got worried. There isn't a legitimate reason they HAD to call by 10 am a later call would have been believable too.
They might have looked bad but it would be much more believable that they were trying to cooperate with the RN.
I am uncertain as yet who did this to JBR but the comparisons of what we would do in the same situation is absurd.

Unless you have been there we can only imagine and imagination is safe, it puts no stress on the brain to deal with the trauma.
To be truthful ( imagining my grown children when they were young) the cops would have arrested both my hubby and me cause I imagine we would have been well armed and the friends we would have called would be "top gunners" as we would have been going door to door searching houses without the owners consent till we found our child. Call me a redneck but what I can imagine myself doing and what I would actually do cannot be said as I have never had a child murdered, kidnapped.
People do not act NORMALLY in situations like this.

I have done things out of character when both my parents died. Dad died of cancer when I was 14 and I was very, very ,very, nice to all the florists who delivered flowers. My mom said I didn't need to gush and complement all the flowers as the florists couldn't care less if we appreciated the thought, they were happy for the business and didn't send the flowers just sold and delivered them. I knew that but I needed her to point out my my behavior as I appeared more than a little weird.
My older sister and I got into a huge (word only) fight in my mothers hospital room while she was dying.
People deal with loss and stress differently and often do things others might consider weird or unusual.

Cathy - you make the most sense of anything I've heard so far. However, if this was the case, why haven't the Ramsey's just said so after all this time? I realize they were panicked and such, but some rememberance should have occured.

"Since the RN was so specific in the amount of the ransom, we figured the kidnappers knew us. We wanted to see if any of our friends were acting weird, so we invited everyone over".

 

[madeleine]

Thanks, Madeleine! I appreciate you looking. They (the Ramseys) still aren't making much sense, though.

I know.....to me calling the friends and the priest over doesn't make sense at all.I would have been cautious re calling LE as well.I think I would have called 911 but after reading the entire note very carefully.I guess.But I've never been in such a situation so who knows actually what I would have done.

 

[Mendara]

Thanks, Madeleine! I appreciate you looking. They (the Ramseys) still aren't making much sense, though.

Ms. RAMSEY: If you would talk to any number of my friends, they'd confirm that I wear the same thing several days in a row sometimes. It was really not anything out of the ordinary.

WHAT? This always bothered me. It is gross and then strange. IMO

 

[SheBoss]

WHAT? This always bothered me. It is gross and then strange. IMO

In the book DOI, Patsy states that she fixed her hair, put on her makeup, then went downstairs in her underwear. This is when she finds the note and chaos ensues. After everyone is called, she realizes she's not dressed so she hurries up the stairs and puts on the first thing she finds which is the clothes from the previous night laying on the floor. I do that all the time - get completely made up except clothes and just wander around the house in my underwear :bang: (insert eye roll here).

Everywhere else I have read, she has always said she often wears the same clothes 2 days in a row.

 

[Mendara]

In the book DOI, Patsy states that she fixed her hair, put on her makeup, then went downstairs in her underwear. This is when she finds the note and chaos ensues. After everyone is called, she realizes she's not dressed so she hurries up the stairs and puts on the first thing she finds which is the clothes from the previous night laying on the floor. I do that all the time - get completely made up except clothes and just wander around the house in my underwear :bang: (insert eye roll here).

Everywhere else I have read, she has always said she often wears the same clothes 2 days in a row.

Yes I remember her flipping back and forth.

 

[Ames]

In the book DOI, Patsy states that she fixed her hair, put on her makeup, then went downstairs in her underwear. This is when she finds the note and chaos ensues. After everyone is called, she realizes she's not dressed so she hurries up the stairs and puts on the first thing she finds which is the clothes from the previous night laying on the floor. I do that all the time - get completely made up except clothes and just wander around the house in my underwear :bang: (insert eye roll here).

Everywhere else I have read, she has always said she often wears the same clothes 2 days in a row.

I thought that it was John that was running around in his underwear, and realized that fact, after the friends and neighbors were called. From Patsy's interviews...she said that she had laid the clothes that she had worn to the White's party, over the tub...she said that is usually what she did, when she had planned on wearing something again...the next day. According to her interview...she was dressed. Hmmm

 

[my_tee_mouse]

She hung up? I have never heard the call or read a transcript. Is it on candy rose?

Possibly. I found a link embedded somewhere in one of these old threads. But yeah, she hung up with the dispatcher practically begging for more information.

 

[BBB167893]

One of the best RDI paradoxes: parents call 911 hours or even a day before the ransom note that they themselves wrote said to. They could've called later and gotten rid of the pineapple, cord, etc. especially if they thought maybe a witness would remember them buying the stuff.

We've been over that. They were cornered.

My brother and I went over a whole list of scenarios on this very subject.

 

[BBB167893]

nope, they couldn't delay calling the police because they were supposed to be going away that morning - how do they explain jbr's absence? Or if they cancelled the trip, they still need a reason.

The trip backed them into a time frame - they had to call the police when they did.

thank you!

 

[BBB167893]

The logic is only "goofy" when it's made to look that way, but that won't change the facts. All of them, taken together that tells a real story of a little girl's death and her parent's efforts to stay out of prison (or to keep someone else out).

Couldn't have said it better myself, beck. And Odin knows I've tried!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

We've been over that.

Understandably terse.

 

[BBB167893]

Understandably terse.

Everyone else already said it all: the Rs were cornered. There were so many people expecting them, if they didn't show up, someone might come looking for them. And any excuse they gave would provoke suspicion once JB turned up dead. Calling their friends over gave them the most control over the situation, contaminating the scene and acting as a buffer between them and the cops.

That better? Probably not.

 

[Anubis]

Wow. Let's remember that what you are talking about is heresay. None of you (nor do I) know all of the evidence that has been found, nor the particulars of the case so everything you are stating is simple speculation. Both John and Patsy passed lie detector tests. I requested several people in my office write the word "request" in cursive and five of the seven made it look like a small 8. Not only that but a handwriting expert (actually two) stated that it was neither Patsy (hers was actually inconclusive) nor John's writing. The "note" is long, the person that wrote it made several purposeful spelling errors. It is intentionally misleading. It is directed to John only; first, oddly as Mr. Ramsey, then as "John". It also asks for the exact amount of John's bonus that year. The MALE DNA evidence on Jonbenet's clothing and under her nails does not match anyone in the home.

On a side note, my son went missing when he was three (he went next door to visit our neighbor) and I hung up on the 911 operator in the middle of our conversation I was so freaked out. No one knows how you will react in a situation until you are in that situation. When I check on my daughter to see if she is sleeping, I simply open her door and peek in. I don't turn the light on when checking to see if my kids are awake.

I'm not particularly fond of the Ramsey's but I think it seems clear enough they weren't the murderers.

Does anyone know if there has been any information released about the footprint found outside the basement window? I cannot find any followup regarding that. It would also be interesting to find out who was privy to the information about John's bonus, whether everyone working for him had been tested and excluded, etc. I know that certain family friends volunteered and were excluded, and their son was also tested.

I also cannot determine from the writings here what, if any, motive you think Patsy or John Ramsey had for murdering their daughter? (and if it had been them, how on earth they got another unknown man's DNA on her clothes and under her nails?)

 

[Toltec]

SuperDave is right...the friends were used as buffers between them and Police. Patsy is the one who called friends...perhaps she was afraid John was going to strangle her for killing their daughter.

The Ramseys claimed they opened Burke's bedroom door and found him "apparently asleep."....so they close his door as to not waken him. Any father would instinctively grab their child out of bed, hand him over to his mother, then check every inch of their son's room to make sure the "kidnapper" wasn't hiding in there. They would question the son..."Did you see or hear anything?". NADA.

They knew Burke was not in any danger in his bedroom...nor at Fleet White's home.

Another point I want to make. John Ramsey claims he went down to the basement before going downstairs with Fleet White. He checks out the train room, sees an open window, latches it closed. He than wonders if the "Kidnappers" entered through the window. Why did he not check the wine cellar than??? Did not bother to look in the laundry area, storage area, bathroom, boiler room.

Does not check Burke's room and rest of basement for a possible intruder...hmmmm.

 

[DeeDee249]

I also cannot determine from the writings here what, if any, motive you think Patsy or John Ramsey had for murdering their daughter? (and if it had been them, how on earth they got another unknown man's DNA on her clothes and under her nails?)

There does not need to be a motive, and in many murder cases, there is no motive. Motive is not needed to prosecute or convict a killer. This was very likely an UNINTENDED death, which is different from an accidental death. If you have been following these threads, there have been several theories as to how the male DNA could have gotten on her clothes. This DNA is "touch DNA", which is different than DNA from body fluids. Touch DNA is skin cells, and these skin cells could have gotten onto ANY of the R hands that day, transferred to their hands (and then to JB's clothes) by a simple handshake or touching a door knob.
Until that DNA is matched to a donor, we just won't know for sure how it got there, so it is possible it belonged to someone who WAS there with JB that night, but it still doesn't prove that person killed her and it still doesn't explain why that male DNA is NOT found ANYWHERE else at the crime scene. Not on the cord, tape, blanket, doorknob, pineapple bowl, flashlight, and the surfaces of the broken window (the suggested entry and exit for some IDI theories) But prints and fibers from the parents ARE found on some of these items.

 

[joeskidbeck]

The ransom note and common sense. Common sense would dictate that John Ramsey make the 911 call as Patsy was obviously in an adrenaline fueled panic and barely able to answer simple questions from the operator. Maybe John was just unable to fake the terror needed for this type call. Before I get slammed let me say that I am not saying either of these parents were not understandably distraught over the death of their daughter, but if this had been a real kidnapping there is NO way JR would have let PR make that call.

 

[shefner]

The ransom note and common sense. Common sense would dictate that John Ramsey make the 911 call as Patsy was obviously in an adrenaline fueled panic and barely able to answer simple questions from the operator. Maybe John was just unable to fake the terror needed for this type call. Before I get slammed let me say that I am not saying either of these parents were not understandably distraught over the death of their daughter, but if this had been a real kidnapping there is NO way JR would have let PR make that call.

I very much agree with your comments here.....

 

[Zak]

Two things about the RN that I have never understood. PR had stated many times that she only read the first few lines of the RN. So when John is on the hallway floor in his underwear on his hands and knees reading the note, why did PR ask him what do we do? If she didn't read the note at this point then why would she ask JR what do we do? As he was reading the note why was she not already on the phone to 911? How did she know the note said not to call the police or FBI? And during the 911 call, I thought she told the operator something about the note saying not to call the police. How did she know this if she hadn't read the note.

The 2nd thing that I have never understood is that the note was left on the hallway floor. When the first officer arrived one of the R's went and got the note to hand it to him, Officer French I believe. So when John Fernie arrived after the police were already there, then how did he read the note (that was still lying on the floor) through the glass in the hallway door? Did Fernie arrive at the same time as LE? Anyone remember the order and time of arrival of all the friends that came that morning?

Editing: I just read the 911 call and I made a mistake.Sorry all. PR mentioned the ending of the RN during the 911 call. If she hadn't read the note then how did she know what the last 2 lines said?

 

[cynic]

Two things about the RN that I have never understood. PR had stated many times that she only read the first few lines of the RN. So when John is on the hallway floor in his underwear on his hands and knees reading the note, why did PR ask him what do we do? If she didn't read the note at this point then why would she ask JR what do we do? As he was reading the note why was she not already on the phone to 911? How did she know the note said not to call the police or FBI? And during the 911 call, I thought she told the operator something about the note saying not to call the police. How did she know this if she hadn't read the note.

The 2nd thing that I have never understood is that the note was left on the hallway floor. When the first officer arrived one of the R's went and got the note to hand it to him, Officer French I believe. So when John Fernie arrived after the police were already there, then how did he read the note (that was still lying on the floor) through the glass in the hallway door? Did Fernie arrive at the same time as LE? Anyone remember the order and time of arrival of all the friends that came that morning?

Editing: I just read the 911 call and I made a mistake.Sorry all. PR mentioned the ending of the RN during the 911 call. If she hadn't read the note then how did she know what the last 2 lines said?

Have a look here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94059"]Right, shut your face and do as I tell you - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]