Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #3

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Is there something that says the allegations made against the Elmo performer were false and made up?

I was not familiar with the case and had to look it up and this is what I found:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...eared-sexual-abuse-lawsuits-article-1.1767940




http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/01/showbiz/elmo-suits-dismissed/

If the case was dismissed because it's too old it has not necessarily been shown that it was all just a lie.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/elmo-puppeteer-kevin-clash-cleared-698645

And here again we have people waiting until the statue of limitations and then magically coming out to say something happened. He was accused and yet never got his day in court so he must be guilty??

This logic escapes me.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/elmo-accuser-recanted-troubled-article-1.1202365

Elmo' accuser who recanted underage sex accusation against puppeteer Kevin Clash has troubled past
 
Kevin Clash admitted he had a relationship with a then-18 year old accuser.

"It was between two consenting adults and I am deeply saddened that he is trying to characterize it as something other than what it was," he said in a statement.

"I am taking a break from Sesame Workshop to deal with this false, defamatory allegation."

Clash also confirmed he is "a gay man" and has "never been ashamed or tried to hide it, but felt [my relationship with the accuser] was a personal and private matter."

Sesame Workshop backs up Clash on one count, saying that after a "thorough investigation" they "found the allegation of underage conduct to be unsubstantiated."
http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2...-hes-gay-had-legal-relationship-with-accuser/

A source close to Sesame Street says that the company responded "seriously and without delay" to Stephens' accusations. They did an internal investigation and also hired a third party to look into the claims, but couldn't find anything to prove that a sexual relationship took place when Stephens was underage. They met with Stephens twice over the summer, and he could not provide the documentation that he promised would prove he had sex with Clash when he was a minor.
http://jezebel.com/5966284/sex-meth-and-elmo-kevin-clashs-accusers-tell-all

The accuser in that instance, Sheldon Stephens, recanted then recanted the recantation. http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/elmo-accuser-story-article-1.1204375 Stephens had a few criminal charges (including theft of $250,000 worth of jewellery from a music producer, http://southfloridagaynews.com/Celebrity/gay-elmo-accuser-sheldon-stephens-has-troubled-past.html) and went on to be charged with stealing money from the pensions of state retirees. http://www.wgal.com/news/susquehanna-valley/dauphin/elmo-accuser-accused-of-stealing-money/20836428

Another accuser, Cecil Singleton, said that he lied to Clash when they met on a gay chat phone line and claims he told him the truth later.
Singleton says he and Clash saw each other casually, off and on, for about four or five years. Clash would give Singleton "small amounts of cash" to help him get by. He says they didn't have sex until he was 19 or 20. They stopped seeing each other shortly after that.
http://jezebel.com/5966284/sex-meth-and-elmo-kevin-clashs-accusers-tell-all

The third accuser, who is known as D.O. to protect his identity, also met Clash on a gay chat line.
He was 16 at the time. D.O. says they engaged in sexual activity but didn't have intercourse. They remained in touch and eventually had sex for the first time when he was 18. Like Singleton, D.O. had not "realized he had been victimized until he learned about [Stephens]."
http://jezebel.com/5966284/sex-meth-and-elmo-kevin-clashs-accusers-tell-all

They all were hunting for some cash. So far I've seen nothing that says Clash denied anything happened. If the statements are correct that the accusers themselves made--that they didn't have sex till they were 18, that they didn't think they were victims--then maybe the court found no merit in the case. If the statute of limitations had run out in any case, then I don't see the argument. One of the alleged victims didn't think he was a victim until someone else accused Clash. The first alleged victim could not provide the documentation he said would provide, and hadn't thought he was a victim until Clash ended a seven year relationship. None of the claims were particularly clear cut, IMO.

Kevin Clash said he had consensual sexual relations with the accusers. He didn't deny he knew them, didn't refuse to speak about them. A fourth man is now trying to get money from Clash. It's a sorry mess, and, it seems to me, that the accusers come off as trying to be filled with righteous anger and indignation while actually behaving like gold diggers and probable liars. I would bet that PBS and Sesame Street producers did some extremely detailed investigating to protect themselves from any lawsuits--and one of the lawyers tried to see if any receipts for car rentals, etc., could be at all tied to the production house.
 
I am not she. There is nothing more annoying than when people talk about you like you can not read what you are saying.. ;)

There are a bunch of celebrities over the years that have been accused of Sexual assault.
Maybe bot by 30 or so people but by multiple people.
What about the guy who plays ELMO. That was vindicated but not after people tore him apart and multiple people accused him.
How about Michael Jackson who when brought before court was vindicated but no one believed it.
What about John Travolta? Who was accused of sexual assault.
There are more.

All I am saying is that these people waited and waited until they lost their chance to prove it in court and that is something that weighs into the equation. They were not children.. They were grown people.

I never doubted you could read what I was saying. Although it's clear that many a time you've selectively ignored what I--and other posters as well--have been saying. Such as: some of Bill Cosby's accusers did go to the authorities timely. Yet you refuse to acknowledge this and continue to repeat that they all waited decades.

That aside.

I see the Elmo performer is already being discussed so I won't belabor, except to repeat Donjeta's point that the cases being dismissed due to statute of limitations is not irrefutable proof that the allegations were all made up.

Michael Jackson: being found "not guilty" in a court of law is by no means the equivalent of being vindicated. It means the jury did not think the case was proved beyond a reasonable doubt. So there again, no irrefutable evidence that the allegations were proved false.

John Travolta: he may or may not have settled with his accusers, but I can find no irrefutable evidence that the allegations were proved false, either.

So it seems we're back to square one.

You are thus far unable to cite an example of a celebrity who has been accused by multiple accusers and the accusations later irrefutably proved false.
 
Regarding why women didn't come forward earlier--this is the explanation Dr. Charlotte Laws gave regarding why, after BC drugged and had sex with her friend, neither she nor her friend reported the incident at the time, and why she, herself came forward when she did in 2014.

The first reference is an interview on Dr. Drew in which Laws, a former Southern CA politian, P.I., lecturer for the F.B.I., author, commentator for NBC, and animal rights advocate explained her position. She had been invited to participate in the show based on her article in Salon, which is the second reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOkOvewgOlQ
(Includes a clip of BC telling a version of the Spanish Fly "joke".)

“Did I ever drug you?” Bill Cosby joked when I entered his dressing room at the Paramount Theatre in Oakland, California, in February 2005. He was performing at the venue, and it was “between shows.” I was accompanied by my husband and stepdaughter.

His comment was meant to defuse tension because a woman had just come forward, saying she was drugged and raped by him. It was obvious that Bill was feeling uneasy about negative media attention. I wondered if his decision to hang out with me and my family one-on-one for 45 minutes was part “damage control.” I was not his close friend; I was more of a friendly acquaintance. Perhaps “friendly acquaintances” can expect more attention when 34-year-old secrets are involved.

Bill knew that I knew. I could feel it. I had known the truth since that memorable night in 1981. Bill had drugged my close friend, whom I will call Sandy, and then had sex with her.

http://www.alternet.org/gender/my-bill-cosby-secret
 
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/elmo-puppeteer-kevin-clash-cleared-698645

And here again we have people waiting until the statue of limitations and then magically coming out to say something happened. He was accused and yet never got his day in court so he must be guilty??

This logic escapes me.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/elmo-accuser-recanted-troubled-article-1.1202365

Elmo' accuser who recanted underage sex accusation against puppeteer Kevin Clash has troubled past


You are moving the goalposts again.

No one said that he must be guilty. However, having a charge dismissed because it's past the statute of limitations does not mean that the alleged victims must have made up false charges.

You were asked to name cases where a multitude of people have been shown to make up false charges against a celebrity.
Cases which were dismissed because the incidents are too old are irrelevant because both true and false charges can be dismissed on this basis without the court having to take the merits of the respective claims in consideration.
 
"And I can't help wondering that if even Cosby himself who knows what happened and whether the ladies are lying or not is not going out of his way to prove these ladies are liars, then why should we bend over backwards to try achieve that? Maybe he knows it would be a waste of time because they're telling the truth or his lawyers are worried that he'd incriminate himself because they think he actually did it?"


Yep, this ^^^^^^^^^

I liked what Gloria Alred had to say. About "Mr. Cosby thinks this is going to go away. It isn't." I'm figuring Gloria, as the careful attorney she is, is vetting these women before she agrees to represent them. She's been doing victims rights work for many, many years. Many pro bono cases.

Yes, she probably has never met a camera she didn't like. But if you're a celebrity serial rapist, she's your worst nightmare, that's for sure.
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...ll-cosby-celebrity-jeopardy-article-1.2116629
'SNL' 40th anniversary special takes jab at Bill Cosby during 'Celebrity Jeopardy!' sketch
Kenan Thompson appeared at the end of the 'Celebrity Jeopardy!' sketch as Cosby mixing drinks. The embattled 77-year-old comic is accused of drugging and raping more than 30 women.

Cosby himself made a joke out of drugging and raping women in his shows but he does not appreciate a joke being made out of him:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bi...d-eddie-murphy-refusing-play-me-snl40-n308861

Bill Cosby says he is grateful that Eddie Murphy rejected an offer to impersonate the embattled comedian during the 40th anniversary "Saturday Night Live" special. "I am very appreciative of Eddie and I applaud his actions," Cosby said through a spokesperson.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...oo-smart-to-make-fun-of-bill-cosby-on-snl-40/

Then again, maybe Murphy wasn’t just trying to spare the feelings of one of his elders. Maybe he just realized the sketch wasn’t funny. After all, the laughs Macdonald said Murphy knew would come didn’t really come at all.
 
You are moving the goalposts again.

No one said that he must be guilty. However, having a charge dismissed because it's past the statute of limitations does not mean that the alleged victims must have made up false charges.

You were asked to name cases where a multitude of people have been shown to make up false charges against a celebrity.
Cases which were dismissed because the incidents are too old are irrelevant because both true and false charges can be dismissed on this basis without the court having to take the merits of the respective claims in consideration.

No I am not. Apples and Oranges.
 
That was exactly my point.

We were specifically looking for examples of apples happening to some celebrities other than Cosby, not examples of oranges happening to some other people.

Apples in this case would involve celebrities who got falsely accused by dozens of people. And because someone saying something doesn't make it true, we'd like to have some proof that it was a false allegation, beyond the celebrity or his lawyer saying so.

Oranges would involve e.g. celebrities who were falsely accused by a couple of people, or celebrities who got accused but it was past the statute of limitations so no one cared if it was true or false anymore, or celebrities who got accused by some people but the details are fuzzy and there's no evidence one way or another to say if it was true or false.

No evidence does not equal false allegation. Too old to prosecute does not equal false allegation.
 
That was exactly my point.

We were specifically looking for examples of apples happening to some celebrities other than Cosby, not examples of oranges happening to some other people.

Apples in this case would involve celebrities who got falsely accused by dozens of people. And because someone saying something doesn't make it true, we'd like to have some proof that it was a false allegation, beyond the celebrity or his lawyer saying so.

Oranges would involve e.g. celebrities who were falsely accused by a couple of people, or celebrities who got accused but it was past the statute of limitations so no one cared if it was true or false anymore, or celebrities who got accused by some people but the details are fuzzy and there's no evidence one way or another to say if it was true or false.

No evidence does not equal false allegation. Too old to prosecute does not equal false allegation.

Why is it so threatening that someone does not agree with what the main theme of this thread is. I still think he is innocent and being falsely accused. I am not going to change my opinion until I see proof of the allegations in the media.
 
Why is it so threatening that someone does not agree with what the main theme of this thread is. I still think he is innocent and being falsely accused. I am not going to change my opinion until I see proof of the allegations in the media.

I'm just wishing to understand why you need irrefutable proof before you could believe that one man might be a criminal even though he's not been convicted, but why you need no proof at all before you can be convinced that 36 women are criminals who make up false allegations although they have not been convicted of that either.

For the majority of rapes that take place throughout the world every day there is no proof, particularly if we assume that the victim is always lying unless there is CCTV and independent witnesses. Does that mean no women get raped? Of course not.
 
I'm just wishing to understand why you need irrefutable proof before you could believe that one man might be a criminal even though he's not been convicted, but why you need no proof at all before you can be convinced that 36 women are criminals who make up false allegations although they have not been convicted of that either.

Because people lie. Because people make up stories for all kinds of reasons. Because until I see evidence that supports the claims I just don't believe blindly.
 
Because people lie. Because people make up stories for all kinds of reasons. Because until I see evidence that supports the claims I just don't believe blindly.

But you do... you believe blindly that they're all lying although you haven't seen a shred of evidence of that.
 
But you do... you believe blindly that they're all lying although you haven't seen a shred of evidence of that.

That is not believing, That is saying I don't believe things without proof. I have not said they are lying. I just am not sure what the truth is yet here.
 
That is not believing, That is saying I don't believe things without proof. I have not said they are lying. I just am not sure what the truth is yet here.

Did you read a couple of your above posts?
 
That is not believing, That is saying I don't believe things without proof.

rsbm

But it has been demonstrated repeatedly that your standards of proof are not consistent. I wouldn't bother to mention it if you hadn't kept mentioning it so many times. Do you really want us to keep dredging up all of your relevant posts? It's really not fair to ask us to do so.
 
I have not said they are lying.

snipped for focus

Yes, you have. I'm not as patient or as subtle as Donjeta.

ScarlettScarpetta said:
I still think he is innocent and being falsely accused.

Falsely accused = the accusers are lying.

lie
verb \ˈlī\
Definition of LIE

intransitive verb
: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
: to create a false or misleading impression

false
adjective \ˈfȯls\

: not real or genuine
: not true or accurate; especially : deliberately untrue : done or said to fool or deceive someone

http://www.merriam-webster.com/
 
snipped for focus

ScarlettScarpetta said:
I am not she. There is nothing more annoying than when people talk about you like you can not read what you are saying..

also snipped for focus

Why is it so threatening that someone does not agree with what the main theme of this thread is.

Gotcha. :wink:

In answer to your question, I find it threatening because:

1. Someone keeps insisting that the women are lying (1a. even though someone claims that isn't what they are saying despite the fact that there is irrefutable proof that that is in fact what someone is saying) without presenting any irrefutable evidence proving the women's claims are false. Yet at the same time someone demands irrefutable proof that the women are telling the truth.

I find double standards quite threatening.

2. Someone keeps insisting that the women are lying without presenting any logical explanation of why/how so many women of different ages, backgrounds, and geographical areas came up with the same basic story of being assaulted by BC, except for something along the lines of "they must be copycats."

Yet someone has presented no logical reason for these women to copy others' accounts.

3. Someone keeps questioning why none of the women reported the attacks to authorities, thereby refusing to acknowledge

a) the fact that some of them did;
b) the horrific realities of what humiliations and indignities sexual assault victims who did report their assaults suffered in previous decades, which were enough to make even the strongest victim think twice about reporting;
c) the trauma, denial, self-blaming, and shame, along with the multitude of other factors, that make sexual assault victims reluctant to report their assaults to authorities.

4. Someone keeps insisting that they won't believe the accusations without irrefutable proof yet refuses to specify what would constitute irrefutable proof in someone's mind.

5. Someone keeps insisting the accusations aren't believable without irrefutable proof, yet refuses to acknowledge that in the vast majority of sexual assault cases, there isn't such a thing as irrefutable proof.

6. Someone keeps insisting that Bill Cosby is just like any number of celebrities who have been the subject of multiple accusations of sexual assault that were later proven to be false, despite being unable to produce a single other example.

As a human being and thus, heaven forbid, a potential victim of sexual assault, I find it extremely threatening that someone would respond to my (or my friend's, or my mother's, or my aunt's, or my cousin's, or my mother-in-law's, or my niece's, or my friends' daughters') report of sexual assault in such dismissive, illogical, non-reasoning ways.

and

7. Someone apparently cannot understand why attitudes like theirs toward victims have historically been part of the reason said victims have been reluctant to report their assaults to authorities.
 
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