Rape And Molestation Charges Filed

[PattyCake]

I have no problem admitting I have a real hard time believing this. Its unimaginable to me...

that does not mean she didn't do it, it's just the rape part is the toughest part to swallow.

 

[delaney]

way off topic... the play Hey Rube, written by Janet Mcreynolds, a Ramsey case player, was also based on the Sylvia Likens murder.

i have seen the catherine keeenar movie and read the book it was based on,
it is brutal.

 

[stilettos]

I am under no such delusion when it comes to the depravity of man or woman kind. There is no gender to evil.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

And what better way to support the victims than to believe them if they come forward and say they have been raped or molested by a female they trusted.
imo

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[tapu]

I have no problem admitting I have a real hard time believing this. Its unimaginable to me...

that does not mean she didn't do it, it's just the rape part is the toughest part to swallow.

That's kind of where I was until I started reading some of the other comments, above. I CAN see it if, say, rage was the force behind the killing--MH was enraged with her life, her own kid, her mother, whatever--and somehow Sandra set her off. Then, in an effort to cover up the murder, she could have tried to make it look like rape so that a male with a different motive would be suspected.

What do you think?

 

[tiredofthis]

That's kind of where I was until I started reading some of the other comments, above. I CAN see it if, say, rage was the force behind the killing--MH was enraged with her life, her own kid, her mother, whatever--and somehow Sandra set her off. Then, in an effort to cover up the murder, she could have tried to make it look like rape so that a male with a different motive would be suspected.

What do you think?

Maybe, but would LE have labeled it rape if Sandra had already been dead when her body was violated?

 

[tapu]

Maybe, but would LE have labeled it rape if Sandra had already been dead when her body was violated?

Hm, good point. To call it rape, they must have evidence that it was not post-mortem. I don't know why but it is so much harder to imagine a woman raping a little girl and then killing her. The cover-up explanation feels more "right," but I see your point.

 

[VespaElf]

"Skeptical" just doesnt seem like they right word to me............is there a word for "I believe it but I hate believing it"???
This case is just surreal isnt it??? Im surprised Camille Paglia hasnt popped up yet to opine as this is quite an arguement for the feminist movement isnt it?? If a MALE accomplice had been arrested this would be a non issue,99.9% of the population wouldnt think twice about MH being quilty,BUT the same majority(and yes Im generalizing)arent as comfortable with MH being the LONE perperator are they?Why?Does thinking a man was involved lessen Sandra's horror or her family's pain?Does a man being involved make it better?It doesnt make it "understandable" as torturing & murdering a child will never be understandable so why cant we accept this?
I (call me naive)believe LE.I believe shes guilty.I also think if there was another involved they wouldve been arrested (the LE in this case appears very thorough,competent & effective)so we just have to "flip the script' and accept shes the (accused)guilty party and move on......wishing it wasnt so doesnt make it so.
Thinking about what Sandra went through..........I cant bear it......the tiniest thought of it makes me ill HOWEVER maybe acknowledging this,accepting it and learning from this will shed new light on other cases ,prompting fresh investigation on 'cold cases' and bring closure & justice for/to other families and change how LE profiles & investigates crimes?
As much as I prayed (and still do)for Sandra & her family I now pray that somehow good will come out of this vile,mind boggling tragedy and that Sandra didnt die in vain.
I believe MH murdered & violated Sandra.I have accepted she acted alone.

 

[Winnow]

I posted the first part of this in "'just the facts, maam" but thought it might be helpful here as well....

There are many legal definitions for commonly used terms which merit consideration.
Here are a few excerpts from the California Penal Code

California Penal Code 261: "Rape"
(4) Where a person is at the time unconscious of the nature of the act, and this is known to the accused. As used in this paragraph,"unconscious of the nature of the act" means incapable of resisting because the victim meets one of the following conditions:
(A) Was unconscious or asleep.
(B) Was not aware, knowing, perceiving, or cognizant that the act occurred.

California Penal Code 289: Foreign Object"
(1) "Sexual penetration" is the act of causing the penetration, however slight, of the genital or anal opening of any person or causing another person to so penetrate the defendant's or another person's genital or anal opening for the purpose of sexual arousal, gratification, or abuse by any foreign object, substance, instrument,or device, or by any unknown object.

(2) "Foreign object, substance, instrument, or device" shall include any part of the body, except a sexual organ.

-----------
LE did initially say that there was no sign of trauma.

If they found a cell phone pic of SC passed out with even someone's finger shown penetrating it meets the criteria for "rape with a foreign object".

We know Absolutely Nothing until all facts are revealed in court.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I had no problem whatsoever believing Melissa Huckaby could solely be guilty of doing these dastardly and perverse acts.

Through years of reading and researching true crime it has become apparent to me that females can be just as predatory and vicious as any male. I have never believed the myth that women cant do crimes equal in sadistic cruelty and depravity as male offenders.

In fact it is my belief that this has long been covered up by our society and women where made out to be the safer gender. By blindly trusting and assuming a woman is safe I feel many young children who remained silent have suffered because of that belief.

I read an article not to long ago that said more than ever before women are watching *advertiser censored*. Imo that also includes kiddie *advertiser censored* showing torture and rapes of little babies and small defenseless children. Some women are not what we wished they were, but they too have the same predatory sexual lust for vulnerable naive children. They are the ones less caught. So I am not sure Melissa Huckaby is the first one. I think she is one among many. It makes me wonder just how many cases weren't solved because LE have had their own tunnel vision assuming the suspect was a male offender.

We have read horror stories about women who have held their young little child down so that a pedophile could repeatedly rape them. We have seen women sell their babies, neglect/torture and murder their own children.... so it is not a shock to me that a female deviant murdered another child not her own and raped/molested them. Evil cannot be defined by just one gender alone but both males and females can be treacherous and very dangerous.

I believe a lot has to do with how we have been brainwashed into thinking the female isn't capable of horrid sexual perversions and all the while they have counted on that societal view making it easy for them to do their destruction to children, based on the belief, that the child wouldn't be believed if they told on a female anyway. We usually don't even punish women in the same way in the justice system. Usually their sentences are not nearly as severe or they get full probabtion even when they preyed on a child. We, unknowingly have given them the tools to go undetected.

I don't think MH did this for anyone other than herself and to satisfy her own sick urges that raged within her. I do believe that Sandra died while being raped and molested. I do believe that the foreign object used could very well have contributed to her death.

imo

 

[passionflower]

IMO, I can accept that a woman can and will do such a surreal act.
I'm sure there are many others like MH out there.
I know LE can't tell everything to the public.
I still believe in my gut right now, that this is the tip of the iceberg.
I sure hope I am wrong!
With MH having boyfriend with a rap sheet that tried to interfere with LE in this case,
church building,computer etc..........working day and night, I think LE will come out with more info when tests come back, IMO
this case is still being investigated.......
it takes time to say it is all over.........
IMO, someone is squirming right now, will slip up and get caught with MH.......IMOO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I find this scary, that people won't believe the facts, and that LE has done a great job in finding the right perp. What scares me is that if the jury is of a stubborn mindset that refuses to believe a woman can do this, justice will not be served. Some of the comments were very good.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/04/18/state/n114107D97.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea

First of all before I talk about Sandra, does anyone know who they are talking about here:

Department of Justice data on U.S. homicides dating back more than 30 years highlight the unusual nature of this crime, said James Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University.

Of the more than 600,000 cases recorded — more than 90 percent of U.S. homicides since 1976 — only one comes close to the alleged circumstances of Sandra's killing, said Fox. The data did not include names and some other details; the Associated Press was unable to locate the case.

The only case similar that I've learned about is Gertrude Baniszewski "who, with the aid of some of her own children and neighborhood children, such as Ricky Hobbs and Coy Hubbard, oversaw and facilitated the prolonged torture, mutilation, and eventual murder of Sylvia Likens, a teenaged girl she had taken into her home. When she was convicted of first-degree murder in 1966, the case was called "the single worst crime perpetrated against an individual in Indiana's history"(from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Baniszewski). The case occurred in the mid to late '60s and involved molestation with bottle. I am fearful that the reason no one can find that other case is because the accused was found innocent.

Anyway, as noted Sylvia Liken's murder was known as the worst crime in Indiana, and I would bet it would be in the running for worst crime in the US. GB was convicted. She was tried two times and eventually was paroled after nineteen years, but I would bet that we have advanced enough as a society to convict MH with a harsher sentence. Lets hope that happens. I'm alarmed that this murder occurred only three years before the Charles Manson murders, was much more horrifying, yet has not been so widely discussed as Manson's crimes. That could possibly indicate it was swept under the rug because the perp was a women, but I don't know.

I think that it is also important to consider that for some of us it has been hard for this to sink in. It is possible that the community of Tracy is experiencing something similar and just needs time before it can sink in. We can hope that will happen with the jury. They may be unable to accept that MH acted alone at first, but will come around with time. And of course a great case.

The prosecuters know what they are up against, their a#* is so on the line. I'm sure they are going to have more people working on the case, no way a public defender can match that. What's more, I'm sure the prosecutor's office has had cases with this PD before and has insights into their style. If MH is found not guilty I can't even image what that town is going to be like.

LE said that they were in disbelief that MH acted alone. I would bet that caused a lot of going things over to make sure they had it right. I am even more certain that because they are aware of the bias they going to work that much harder and make the case as airtight as they can.

Its possible that MH's grand-parents truly might have thought the MH had internal bleeding. If MH was freaking out enough to eat the blades its likely that she was showing some other strange behavior before she ate them. While she was at the hospital it may have been more of the same, especially when LE showed up and stood outside the door. All of those people can be called to the stand to testify about the behavior, the grandparents too. They would have the pooped out blades for evidence of MH's state of mind. Maybe she tried to OD on the drugs she used on Sandra, tox results would show that too. She was a twit to go there.

By the time she was driven to have her interview with police she was waving at the crowd, maybe she was having delusions maybe she was just a little cook-coo for coco puffs, I don't know. But she wasn't with a lawyer to tell her to keep her mouth shut and she was with two elderly people who after receiving such intense speculation themselves didn't even know how to deal with MH.

I don't know how they are going to prove the molestation since LE has indicated there was no trauma. It sounds like she has a history of drugging children. If she is a serial molester, maybe she took pictures for trophies. I don't know if they would have been able to produce DNA profiles for MH by the time she was charged, but the chances of them obtaining fluid are less with a woman perp. If they in fact do not have any rock solid proof of molestation maybe they are trying to get MH to plea to life w/o parole. She deserves the death penalty, but that would work and it would be better for Sandra's mom if there were no trial.

There is the possibility that because the crime is so horrific, once the defense gets the jury over the "hump" of believing that a woman committed these crimes they will be even more infuriated that they were committed by a mother and punish her accordingly.

I think getting over that 'hump" will be easier thanks to KC and the Anthony clan. I don't think anyone can hide from that case or from the overwhelming evidence against KC. KC proves to them that women are at least capable of murder. If KC is convicted by the time MH goes to trial, so much the better.

Even if the jury believes that she did it but had help, I don't think they will let MH off because that other person is unknown. I don't think it will be possible for MH to be found guilty. How could a juror even go home to their community if she wasn't. This is waaaaaaaaay beyond OJ.

 

[Kat]

I interpret the "no trauma" statement differently from most here. But, I have to go back and review when the statement was made to the media...I don't remember if it was before or after the ME's exam.

But IIRC, and it was a statement made prior to the statements that were made after the ME exam, then my interpretation was there was no trauma visable when the suitcase was opened and a cursory exam was performed.

I imagine the exam in order to determine trauma in that region of the body would be more involved given that Sandra had been, in my mind's eye, manipulated physically to fit into a suitcase of that size. I don't want to be more graphic in the description than that because it is a personal preference of mine to try not to post anything the family may read that would cause them more pain. Just me and my quirks.

 

[JoeFromLB]

First of all before I talk about Sandra, does anyone know who they are talking about here:


The only case similar that I've learned about is Gertrude Baniszewski "who, with the aid of some of her own children and neighborhood children, such as Ricky Hobbs and Coy Hubbard, oversaw and facilitated the prolonged torture, mutilation, and eventual murder of Sylvia Likens, a teenaged girl she had taken into her home. When she was convicted of first-degree murder in 1966, the case was called "the single worst crime perpetrated against an individual in Indiana's history"(from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Baniszewski). The case occurred in the mid to late '60s and involved molestation with bottle. I am fearful that the reason no one can find that other case is because the accused was found innocent.

Anyway, as noted Sylvia Liken's murder was known as the worst crime in Indiana, and I would bet it would be in the running for worst crime in the US. GB was convicted. She was tried two times and eventually was paroled after nineteen years, but I would bet that we have advanced enough as a society to convict MH with a harsher sentence. Lets hope that happens. I'm alarmed that this murder occurred only three years before the Charles Manson murders, was much more horrifying, yet has not been so widely discussed as Manson's crimes. That could possibly indicate it was swept under the rug because the perp was a women, but I don't know.

I think that it is also important to consider that for some of us it has been hard for this to sink in. It is possible that the community of Tracy is experiencing something similar and just needs time before it can sink in. We can hope that will happen with the jury. They may be unable to accept that MH acted alone at first, but will come around with time. And of course a great case.

The prosecuters know what they are up against, their a#* is so on the line. I'm sure they are going to have more people working on the case, no way a public defender can match that. What's more, I'm sure the prosecutor's office has had cases with this PD before and has insights into their style. If MH is found not guilty I can't even image what that town is going to be like.

LE said that they were in disbelief that MH acted alone. I would bet that caused a lot of going things over to make sure they had it right. I am even more certain that because they are aware of the bias they going to work that much harder and make the case as airtight as they can.

Its possible that MH's grand-parents truly might have thought the MH had internal bleeding. If MH was freaking out enough to eat the blades its likely that she was showing some other strange behavior before she ate them. While she was at the hospital it may have been more of the same, especially when LE showed up and stood outside the door. All of those people can be called to the stand to testify about the behavior, the grandparents too. They would have the pooped out blades for evidence of MH's state of mind. Maybe she tried to OD on the drugs she used on Sandra, tox results would show that too. She was a twit to go there.

By the time she was driven to have her interview with police she was waving at the crowd, maybe she was having delusions maybe she was just a little cook-coo for coco puffs, I don't know. But she wasn't with a lawyer to tell her to keep her mouth shut and she was with two elderly people who after receiving such intense speculation themselves didn't even know how to deal with MH.

I don't know how they are going to prove the molestation since LE has indicated there was no trauma. It sounds like she has a history of drugging children. If she is a serial molester, maybe she took pictures for trophies. I don't know if they would have been able to produce DNA profiles for MH by the time she was charged, but the chances of them obtaining fluid are less with a woman perp. If they in fact do not have any rock solid proof of molestation maybe they are trying to get MH to plea to life w/o parole. She deserves the death penalty, but that would work and it would be better for Sandra's mom if there were no trial.

There is the possibility that because the crime is so horrific, once the defense gets the jury over the "hump" of believing that a woman committed these crimes they will be even more infuriated that they were committed by a mother and punish her accordingly.

I think getting over that 'hump" will be easier thanks to KC and the Anthony clan. I don't think anyone can hide from that case or from the overwhelming evidence against KC. KC proves to them that women are at least capable of murder. If KC is convicted by the time MH goes to trial, so much the better.

Even if the jury believes that she did it but had help, I don't think they will let MH off because that other person is unknown. I don't think it will be possible for MH to be found guilty. How could a juror even go home to their community if she wasn't. This is waaaaaaaaay beyond OJ.

Great post!

I don't know what case they could be talking about. The Sylvia Likens murder occurred in 1965, and they're talking about cases since 1976.
But only 1 in 600,000 is similar to Sandra's killing?!
That's really something...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO, I can accept that a woman can and will do such a surreal act.
I'm sure there are many others like MH out there.
I know LE can't tell everything to the public.
I still believe in my gut right now, that this is the tip of the iceberg.
I sure hope I am wrong!
With MH having boyfriend with a rap sheet that tried to interfere with LE in this case,
church building,computer etc..........working day and night, I think LE will come out with more info when tests come back, IMO
this case is still being investigated.......
it takes time to say it is all over.........
IMO, someone is squirming right now, will slip up and get caught with MH.......IMOO

A boyfriend?:waitasec: All I have heard that she may have possibly had one date with Sinclair.

I think LE has investigated Sinclair thoroughly and found he had no involvement.

imo

 

[daisy.faithfull]

and then LE was looking for a murder 'weapon'.........IIRC cord from a blind, now sexual object???

Wasn't there some kind of strangulation device found on little JonBenet and the strangulation was connected to pedophiles?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I interpret the "no trauma" statement differently from most here. But, I have to go back and review when the statement was made to the media...I don't remember if it was before or after the ME's exam.

But IIRC, and it was a statement made prior to the statements that were made after the ME exam, then my interpretation was there was no trauma visible when the suitcase was opened and a cursory exam was performed.

I imagine the exam in order to determine trauma in that region of the body would be more involved given that Sandra had been, in my mind's eye, manipulated physically to fit into a suitcase of that size. I don't want to be more graphic in the description than that because it is a personal preference of mine to try not to post anything the family may read that would cause them more pain. Just me and my quirks.

I think the overall view of Sandra's body externally showed no visible signs of trauma and that is why Sgt. S. said what he did. I believe the trauma she suffered was internal genital trauma.

imo

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I interpret the "no trauma" statement differently from most here. But, I have to go back and review when the statement was made to the media...I don't remember if it was before or after the ME's exam.

But IIRC, and it was a statement made prior to the statements that were made after the ME exam, then my interpretation was there was no trauma visable when the suitcase was opened and a cursory exam was performed.

I imagine the exam in order to determine trauma in that region of the body would be more involved given that Sandra had been, in my mind's eye, manipulated physically to fit into a suitcase of that size. I don't want to be more graphic in the description than that because it is a personal preference of mine to try not to post anything the family may read that would cause them more pain. Just me and my quirks.

I think I have the same question you do. I'm wondering if the "no trauma" report was only describing the external body, not necessarily its internal structures.

I hope that you will post what you find!

 

[Dr. Know?]

"Skeptical" just doesnt seem like they right word to me............is there a word for "I believe it but I hate believing it"???
This case is just surreal isnt it??? Im surprised Camille Paglia hasnt popped up yet to opine as this is quite an arguement for the feminist movement isnt it?? If a MALE accomplice had been arrested this would be a non issue,99.9% of the population wouldnt think twice about MH being quilty,BUT the same majority(and yes Im generalizing)arent as comfortable with MH being the LONE perperator are they?Why?Does thinking a man was involved lessen Sandra's horror or her family's pain?Does a man being involved make it better?It doesnt make it "understandable" as torturing & murdering a child will never be understandable so why cant we accept this?
I (call me naive)believe LE.I believe shes guilty.I also think if there was another involved they wouldve been arrested (the LE in this case appears very thorough,competent & effective)so we just have to "flip the script' and accept shes the (accused)guilty party and move on......wishing it wasnt so doesnt make it so.
Thinking about what Sandra went through..........I cant bear it......the tiniest thought of it makes me ill HOWEVER maybe acknowledging this,accepting it and learning from this will shed new light on other cases ,prompting fresh investigation on 'cold cases' and bring closure & justice for/to other families and change how LE profiles & investigates crimes?
As much as I prayed (and still do)for Sandra & her family I now pray that somehow good will come out of this vile,mind boggling tragedy and that Sandra didnt die in vain.
I believe MH murdered & violated Sandra.I have accepted she acted alone.

I thank you for your post. I believe a woman is capable of this act. Alone.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Great post!

I don't know what case they could be talking about. The Syvlia Likens murder occurred in 1965, and they're talking about cases since 1976.
But only 1 in 600,000 is similar to Sandra's killing?!
That's really something...

Thank you JoeFromLB!

Does anyone have any idea which case the article is referring to? I'm surprised that the reporter couldn't find anything. You would think that something so unusual would be easy to recall.:waitasec: