Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

[stmarysmead]

If RZ was looking to escape. She had the perfect opportunity as she was at the airport numerous times all day and into the evening. Why wouldn’t she just jump on the plane with her sister?

IMO, RZ was in HELP mode. Doing everything she could to make things easier for the family (including DS, as she picked her sister up from the airport) and her boyfriend. IMO, she was putting others needs before her own that day - - Right up until 10:30 that night when she last spoke or texted with Mary.....her plan was to take JS food and clothes to the hospital the next morning. Her actions the entire day were the actions of someone who just wanted to help and relieve any stressful matters from for JS and DS so they can focus only on their son. Yes I am sure she was extremely upset about Max, but her actions for the ENTIRE day show she was in help mode not suicide mode. Why would she want to put yet another horrible tragedy in her boyfriends lap when all she did all day was try to help in whatever ways she could?

I’m sorry, but I just don’t think your theory adds up to what is actually known of what RZ’s actions actually PROVED to be that entire day following Max’s accident.

All my opinion.

I’m pointing out that she’s had a long unstable history of fleeing from problems, even when that required a physical move and uprooting her and her then husband’s lives. Moving away is a pretty drastic “solution.” Doing it more than once does not fit with the image put forth here of the strong, emotionally resilient mentally healthy Rebecca. It’s an image of a woman who can’t cope.

She also kept repeating these affairs and then “return-to-the-marriage-and run”routine. An emotional healthy person does not keep repeating destructive behaviors that bring them misery.

No plane ride would allow her to escape from the investigators looking into the suspicious death of the little child. She had no escape from answering their questions.

She had no idea at that point if they would believe her story...or if the Investigators would do to HER what the Plaintiffs are doing with AS, try to build a case for homicide around the only two people in the house with Max. Nit-picking every detail, criticizing everything she said, finding ways to discredit her version of events, tie her to staging the scene, tie her a murder. Imagine...she might have faced a board of sleuthers here at WS.

One thing she knew that night, no amount of “helping” was going to placate a grieving hysterical Mother. And the older kids who adored Max and disrespected her...would have new venom to throw at her. The future was looking inescapably heinous.

Sure she could have gotten on a plane...but how would that look to the investigators?

Rebecca had finally found herself in a situation with no where to run or hide.



The investigator kept calling her. NR called her. She was being pushed for answers.

 

[Mica]

I remember reading something that mentioned dryer sheets, which I thought was interesting because they are very effective at wiping things down. It doesn't appear they were collected, however, not even the pinkish colored one you noticed on the bedroom floor.

There are 3 search warrants you can few at the very beginning of this thread: https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...-Zahau&highlight=search+warrant+rebecca+zahau

Thank you. There were six search warrants. Only three were unsealed. Do you know why the other three remained sealed and what they might have contained that they needed to remain sealed?

>>snip

San Diego Superior Court Judge David Danielsen unsealed three of six search warrants Tuesday morning related to the hanging death of Rebecca Zahau at the Spreckels mansion.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15505829/some-shacknai-search-warrants-to-be-unsealed

 

[*Lash*]

SW 41432 - was for Rady's surveillance video.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41432.pdf

 

[Tortoise]

Suicide is gone from the points the jury will be deliberating IMO, with the mountain of evidence for murder presented. The defense has wasted its money with the clinical psychologist - it's just not relevant to consider the mindset of a murder victim. They couldn't win with Lucas in court, they can't win without him. Their second most important witness (AS being the first) hidden. Wecht's testimony sails out front. Then out pops the knife blade with prints from hands behind her back.

The only thing the jury has to decide is whether Adam did it. I have no doubts at all he did it, the defense might have managed to keep the jury from hearing some of the most incriminating evidence but they don't have truth, and truth has a very powerful effect on people. It sticks. It is and will be forever. Hide this, hide that, objection, objection..the smell of desperation builds to a stench. Smooth talking high-powered lawyers start to look ugly.

Smells like excrement just can't be covered up. Atty Greer does not need to worry about a feather, he has all the feathers.

The painted message was Adam's biggest mistake. That makes it family. We know where JS was and Rebecca's murderer was male - the sexual assault, the strength required to tie up and carry Rebecca whether that was over the balcony or down the stairs and outside, his work association with ropes, his admission to masturbation with no explanation if he didn't know a sexual assault took place, and the knife handle used. Add in his father's telephone call and the somber atmosphere in the restaurant. No need to explain his missing DNA and prints with a door that was wiped, gloves just lying around in summer, and his DNA missing from places where his touch DNA and saliva should be. Rebecca's mouth swab didn't show his saliva because he simply lied about administering breaths.

It's all there.

All IMO.

 

[stmarysmead]

One last comment I’d like to make. It’s obvious that I do not agree with the majority on this Board...but I admire you. I admire people as loyal and committed as you have been to a cause you believe in. I admire the support you have provided to a family you feel as been wronged. In the Duke Hoax, there was amazing united support like this...for the families and for TRUTH....from complete strangers who also put their hearts and minds and talents into that case.

No matter what the verdict, this group that has stayed the ćourse over the years here at WS, have given all you can. I’m sure the Z family will never forget your loyalty and your effort.

I will continue to argue from what my interpretation of the evidence tells me. And though you may doubt what I say, please don’t doubt that I respect your long history here of dogged determination to persuade others to what you believe is the truth.

 

[minorone]

On July 11th there were 10 blocked calls on Rebecca’s phone record.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

For years I have received many calls for free trips, removal of viruses, unpaid $$$, how to make a fortune, investments that are like winning a lotto.......I always block these numbers on my phone as well as others I do not want to talk to.

My phone shows numbers and emails I have blocked. Would it be reasonable to assume police being in possession of the phone have the identity of the blocked numbers.

The first blocked number is July 7th. It would be helpful to see prior phone bills. There may be blocked numbers going back a long time.

Re a copycat:
A copycat would have to know about Max to put that type of message on the door. I think it is highly unlikely.

 

[MyBelle]

If RZ was looking to escape. She had the perfect opportunity as she was at the airport numerous times all day and into the evening. Why wouldn’t she just jump on the plane with her sister?

IMO, RZ was in HELP mode. Doing everything she could to make things easier for the family (including DS, as she picked her sister up from the airport) and her boyfriend. IMO, she was putting others needs before her own that day - - Right up until 10:30 that night when she last spoke or texted with Mary.....her plan was to take JS food and clothes to the hospital the next morning. Her actions the entire day were the actions of someone who just wanted to help and relieve any stressful matters from for JS and DS so they can focus only on their son. Yes I am sure she was extremely upset about Max, but her actions for the ENTIRE day show she was in help mode not suicide mode. Why would she want to put yet another horrible tragedy in her boyfriends lap when all she did all day was try to help in whatever ways she could?

I’m sorry, but I just don’t think your theory adds up to what is actually known of what RZ’s actions actually PROVED to be that entire day following Max’s accident.

All my opinion.

I agree she was in help mode. But no matter how helpful she was being, Max wasn't getting better and a detective was trying to gain more information from her.
Such pressure didn't help HER, instead it exacerbated her despondency yet she apparently was able to hide it very well from her sister. Everyone else was totally focused on Max. JMO

 

[Mica]

On July 11th there were 10 blocked calls on Rebecca’s phone record.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

For years I have received many calls for free trips, removal of viruses, unpaid $$$, how to make a fortune, investments that are like winning a lotto.......I always block these numbers on my phone as well as others I do not want to talk to.

My phone shows numbers and emails I have blocked. Would it be reasonable to assume police being in possession of the phone have the identity of the blocked numbers.

The first blocked number is July 7th. It would be helpful to see prior phone bills. There may be blocked numbers going back a long time.

Re a copycat:
A copycat would have to know about Max to put that type of message on the door. I think it is highly unlikely.

There are days I receive more blocked calls than legitimate calls from friends and family. And everyday I find myself blocking more numbers. So much for the Do Not Call List.

I did notice on Rebecca's phone list for July 12th that her last outgoing phone call was made at 9:25 PM to a number in St. Joseph, MO. It lasted a minute. And then no other phone calls incoming or outgoing until Jonah's voicemail at 12:50 AM on July 13th. Rebecca's last outgoing text message on July 12 was at 9:53 PM. She received one more incoming text message at 10:41 PM that she did not respond to. Based on this phone record we can assume Rebecca was alive up until 9:53 PM on July 12th when all outgoing phone activity ceases. Did she go to sleep or was something else going on? I don't believe Rebecca was the one who retrieved Jonah's voicemail and deleted it. I believe Rebecca was already incapacitated or deceased. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Good morning!

Here are some random musings and information I have come across. Food for thought...

On July 11th there were 10 blocked calls on Rebecca’s phone record.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

___________________________________________________________________

About a month before Rebecca’s death a serial rapist was caught in Oceanside, California. He used a large kitchen knife during the assaults and made victims strip naked. He then bound, gagged, and tied the victim to a chair. He also hog-tied them.

He had been caught so of course could not be responsible but the case would have been in the news. Copycat?

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2012/nov/14/citylights2-three-time-rapist-earns-417-years/
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ssaults-kidnapping-vista-2011may31-story.html

______________________________________________________________________


https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...ion-Mystery-Shacknai-San-Diego-475433983.html

________________________________________________________________________

http://www.cbs8.com/clip/6410063/mansion-mystery-reenactment-bonus-video

.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15928565/news-8-reenacts-the-coronado-mansion-mystery

Thanks for the links. Interesting. My thoughts about the rapist begin with he didn't kill his victims but the rapes were brutal. The added element of RZ's death including the painting of the sign, ropes and hanging seems to go far beyond what that serial rapist even considered or a copycat would try. Plus, there is still no evidence RZ was raped.

I think RZ was very athletically agile and had no problem hurtling herself over that railing.

 

[minorone]

There are days I receive more blocked calls than legitimate calls from friends and family. And everyday I find myself blocking more numbers. So much for the Do Not Call List.

I did notice on Rebecca's phone list for July 12th that her last outgoing phone call was made at 9:25 PM to a number in St. Joseph, MO. It lasted a minute. And then no other phone calls incoming or outgoing until Jonah's voicemail at 12:50 AM on July 13th. Rebecca's last outgoing text message on July 12 was at 9:53 PM. She received one more incoming text message at 10:41 PM that she did not respond to. Based on this phone record we can assume Rebecca was alive up until 9:53 PM on July 12th when all outgoing phone activity ceases. Did she go to sleep or was something else going on? I don't believe Rebecca was the one who retrieved Jonah's voicemail and deleted it. I believe Rebecca was already incapacitated or deceased. JMO

Good point about receiving calls where the number is blocked by the sender. I should have remembered how many I get that are blocked coming in.

I agree that your theory that Rebecca was not the one who retrieved Jonah's voicemail and deleted it. I believe Rebecca was already incapacitated or deceased as well.

I have always wondered why NR did not go to the guest house where Adam was when she went to the property that night. In light of the circumstances with Max, I would have gone to the guesthouse if I was unable to reach Rebecca.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for the links. Interesting. My thoughts about the rapist begin with he didn't kill his victims but the rapes were brutal. The added element of RZ's death including the painting of the sign, ropes and hanging seems to go far beyond what that serial rapist even considered or a copycat would try. Plus, there is still no evidence RZ was raped.

I think RZ was very athletically agile and had no problem hurtling herself over that railing.

Can you explain how, when she was in a state of rigor mortis, her legs were bent? The only explanation would be if she were hog tied. How would she get over the balcony railing in that position? Hands and feet tightly bound with the same rope, knees bent.

 

[Imp]

BBM for focus.

Absolutely. I would feel the exact same way.

Nonetheless, those feelings wouldn't prompt me to commit suicide within a few hours in a particularly self-debasing way, particularly, ESPECIALLY if I knew I did nothing wrong.

Exactly. Some people apparently assume that when horrible life events happen to single women in their early 30's, their universal response is to kill themselves in a spectacularly brutal and humiliating fashion.

WTH?

 

[Betty P]

There are days I receive more blocked calls than legitimate calls from friends and family. And everyday I find myself blocking more numbers. So much for the Do Not Call List.

I did notice on Rebecca's phone list for July 12th that her last outgoing phone call was made at 9:25 PM to a number in St. Joseph, MO. It lasted a minute. And then no other phone calls incoming or outgoing until Jonah's voicemail at 12:50 AM on July 13th. Rebecca's last outgoing text message on July 12 was at 9:53 PM. She received one more incoming text message at 10:41 PM that she did not respond to. Based on this phone record we can assume Rebecca was alive up until 9:53 PM on July 12th when all outgoing phone activity ceases. Did she go to sleep or was something else going on? I don't believe Rebecca was the one who retrieved Jonah's voicemail and deleted it. I believe Rebecca was already incapacitated or deceased. JMO

It seems most likely that after the 9:53 pm text message, she went to prepare clothes for herself and Jonah the next day, then took a shower. Since the blood and other evidence in the mansion shows she was accosted and taken to the murder room after getting out of the shower, she probably never saw the 10:41 pm message. I would guess she finished taking her shower and preparing for the next day sometime around 10:30 to 10:45 pm

There was also a discrepancy between when NR said she sent the text message and the time shown on the phone records.

From Lash's timeline, starting around the time that Rebecca, Adam & Jonah finished dinner the night of her death

8:00 PM - After dinner Jonah returns to the hospital.
– Rebecca and Adam return home to Coronado mansion.
– Adam claims this is the last time he saw Rebecca. He went to the guest house, she went to the mansion.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ant_11-164.pdf

8:00 PM – text messages out to Jonah
8:06 PM – outgoing 27 min phone call to sister Mary
8:33 PM – incoming 3 min phone call from Mary
8:43 PM – text message in from Jonah

RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

9:00 PM – Nina leaves the hospital. She uses Jonah's car to drive to Dina's home.

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3

9:24 PM – text message out to Mary
9:25 PM – outgoing 1 min phone call to Mary
9:40 PM – text message out to Mary

RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

9:41 PM – Nina alleges she sent Rebecca a text message. Nina asks if she can drop by to talk about “what happened” to Max. Rebecca never responds. *The text message appears on Rebecca's cell phone records at 10:41 PM.*

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3
RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15485069/r...-rebecca-zahau

9:44 PM – text message in from Mary
9:48 PM – 2 text messages out to Mary
9:52 PM – text message in from Mary
9:53 PM – text message in from Mary
9:53 PM – text message out to Mary

RZ's cell phone - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

9:55 PM – Nina Romano, after not getting a response from her text to Rebecca, decides to walk to the mansion. Nina wants to talk to Rebecca.

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3

10:00 PM – Nina arrives at the mansion. No one answers the door. Nina has a look around the property and sees a light on in the 'suicide room'. Nina returns to Dina's home.

NR Interview - http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/...ina_romano.mp3

10:20 PM – A witness claims to see Dina Shacknai at the Spreckles mansion. SDSO dismisses it as Nina Romano.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/e...mansion-deaths

10:41 PM – A text message in from Nina received on Rebecca's phone. *This contradicts Nina's claim that the text was sent at 9:41 PM.*

BBM

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...melines-*NO-DISCUSSION*&p=8589850#post8589850

 

[Imp]

BBM
Not to speak for Peaceful, but when they replied asking for a link to your post, I believe it was in reference to this particular comment you made: "So did Rebecca, but unfortunately, she took her life during her mental breakdown."

I read through the link you provided. Yes, your link does state what most of us here know already and that is:
Jonah testified that when the doctor told her (her meaning Dina) would never walk or talk again, she became "hysterical."

Nowhere in your link does it state that Rebecca also became hysterical as you state in your post with the ...."So did Rebecca...." In fact, your link states:
"He (Jonah) left a voicemail for Zahau with the news, but said she never called him back."

I agree with your first sentence of your post, as far as, what Jonah testified to regarding Dina's reaction to the doctor's prognosis of Max. However, your second sentence starts with "So did Rebecca" to me you're implying that she too was hysterical after hearing the news of Max like when Dina heard the same news.

Jonah could not have known if Rebecca was, in fact, hysterical like Dina because he never spoke to her. Rebecca being "hysterical" like Dina was might be your Opinion and if it is I respect it; however, as it is written it looks like it is being stated as fact especially combined with an actual fact.

It is easier when people back up facts with links and simply add an 'in my opinion' to the post so posters (especially new ones to a case) can differentiate between the two.

IMO/MOO/Etc.

Another example of the point I just made.

More statements of fact without verified insider status or links.

This type of posting can really muck up the works for people attempting to understand what has gone on/is happening in the case.

Edited to add: To clarify, I'm talking about the person Elisa444 responded to. Elisa444 outlined a typical statement of fact that is no such thing, so I used her post as an example.

 

[Imp]

All IMO. Great that the case is not being split. Plaintiffs have the right person on trial for this and they have wiped the floor with the defense.

Agree 100 percent.

 

[Imp]

Suicide is gone from the points the jury will be deliberating IMO, with the mountain of evidence for murder presented. The defense has wasted its money with the clinical psychologist - it's just not relevant to consider the mindset of a murder victim. They couldn't win with Lucas in court, they can't win without him. Their second most important witness (AS being the first) hidden. Wecht's testimony sails out front. Then out pops the knife blade with prints from hands behind her back.

The only thing the jury has to decide is whether Adam did it. I have no doubts at all he did it, the defense might have managed to keep the jury from hearing some of the most incriminating evidence but they don't have truth, and truth has a very powerful effect on people. It sticks. It is and will be forever. Hide this, hide that, objection, objection..the smell of desperation builds to a stench. Smooth talking high-powered lawyers start to look ugly.

Smells like excrement just can't be covered up. Atty Greer does not need to worry about a feather, he has all the feathers.

The painted message was Adam's biggest mistake. That makes it family. We know where JS was and Rebecca's murderer was male - the sexual assault, the strength required to tie up and carry Rebecca whether that was over the balcony or down the stairs and outside, his work association with ropes, his admission to masturbation with no explanation if he didn't know a sexual assault took place, and the knife handle used. Add in his father's telephone call and the somber atmosphere in the restaurant. No need to explain his missing DNA and prints with a door that was wiped, gloves just lying around in summer, and his DNA missing from places where his touch DNA and saliva should be. Rebecca's mouth swab didn't show his saliva because he simply lied about administering breaths.

It's all there.

All IMO.

Great post. Quoting the whole thing because it's just that great! :tyou:

 

[stmarysmead]

Can you explain how, when she was in a state of rigor mortis, her legs were bent? The only explanation would be if she were hog tied. How would she get over the balcony railing in that position? Hands and feet tightly bound with the same rope, knees bent.

How long did she lay there, probably with her knees bent...before the medical examiner arrived? She simply wasn’t in full rigor when she’s was cut down. Someone explained that on here a few days ago.

 

[Imp]

On July 11th there were 10 blocked calls on Rebecca’s phone record.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/zahau_cell.pdf

For years I have received many calls for free trips, removal of viruses, unpaid $$$, how to make a fortune, investments that are like winning a lotto.......I always block these numbers on my phone as well as others I do not want to talk to.

My phone shows numbers and emails I have blocked. Would it be reasonable to assume police being in possession of the phone have the identity of the blocked numbers.

The first blocked number is July 7th. It would be helpful to see prior phone bills. There may be blocked numbers going back a long time.

Re a copycat:
A copycat would have to know about Max to put that type of message on the door. I think it is highly unlikely.

The blocked calls appear to start with 000-0000. Looks like scammers?

 

[Tricia]

If he can Mr. Greer is going to call me today. It may be in 29 seconds or in 12 hours. Not sure.

Please post any questions you have and I'll do my best to ask Mr. Greer for you.

Tricia

 

[stmarysmead]

Exactly. Some people apparently assume that when horrible life events happen to single women in their early 30's, their universal response is to kill themselves in a spectacularly brutal and humiliating fashion.

WTH?

No. But in this case, the woman is question has a history of fleeing from situations. She repeatedly showed an inability to face problems...and with her adulterous liaisons...these problems were of her own making and repetitive. Her husband’s testimony that 5hey had to move to different cities several times because of her issues, does not indicate an emotionally stable woman.

Add to that the diary entry about not being able to sleep...”for the first time in her life”...the constant crying....the investigators calls...NR call...the issues with Jonah. The podcast says there was testimony that she had stopped her regular exercise routine and lost weight.

And if her sister was one of the two sources to Greer that JS was cheatingbwith the new love of his life...how did the sister find that out? From Rebecca?