Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

[Imp]

Can you explain how, when she was in a state of rigor mortis, her legs were bent? The only explanation would be if she were hog tied. How would she get over the balcony railing in that position? Hands and feet tightly bound with the same rope, knees bent.

Imo, Rebecca's bent legs in the crime scene photos and Mr. Greer pointing out the hogtie rope ends attached to both sets of bindings have already convinced the jury that she couldn't possibly have killed herself by dropping herself off the balcony. And the defense fighting so hard to hide rope lengths and the distance her feet would've been from the ground if things had happened as SDSO and the defense say, was a bonus. No way did they want to draw attention to any of that, because even if she was at any point hanging from that balcony, it would appear to be her knees, not her feet, that were closest to the ground.

 

[Betty P]

I’m pointing out that she’s had a long unstable history of fleeing from problems, even when that required a physical move and uprooting her and her then husband’s lives. Moving away is a pretty drastic “solution.” Doing it more than once does not fit with the image put forth here of the strong, emotionally resilient mentally healthy Rebecca. It’s an image of a woman who can’t cope.

She also kept repeating these affairs and then “return-to-the-marriage-and run”routine. An emotional healthy person does not keep repeating destructive behaviors that bring them misery.

No plane ride would allow her to escape from the investigators looking into the suspicious death of the little child. She had no escape from answering their questions.

She had no idea at that point if they would believe her story...or if the Investigators would do to HER what the Plaintiffs are doing with AS, try to build a case for homicide around the only two people in the house with Max. Nit-picking every detail, criticizing everything she said, finding ways to discredit her version of events, tie her to staging the scene, tie her a murder. Imagine...she might have faced a board of sleuthers here at WS.

One thing she knew that night, no amount of “helping” was going to placate a grieving hysterical Mother. And the older kids who adored Max and disrespected her...would have new venom to throw at her. The future was looking inescapably heinous.

Sure she could have gotten on a plane...but how would that look to the investigators?

Rebecca had finally found herself in a situation with no where to run or hide.



The investigator kept calling her. NR called her. She was being pushed for answers.

There would have been no problem in her leaving. If Jonah was angry about Max and blaming it on RZ, all she needed to do was pack her things and move back with her sister/family or return to AZ. She was a very attractive young, healthy, intelligent person with education, skills and job experience.

That's probably what she intended to do. Perhaps her killer knew her plans and thought it was his one last chance to indulge his sexual fantasies.

 

[Lezah]

He may have been able to take her pulse because of the loose rope but the only way to loosen a rope is at the knot. That's the entire point of a knot.

He appeared to the jury to be untruthful, as his deposition was entirely inconsistent with his testimony.

That’s the entire point of ...the post.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Betty P]

How long did she lay there, probably with her knees bent...before the medical examiner arrived? She simply wasn’t in full rigor when she’s was cut down. Someone explained that on here a few days ago.

Couple of things. She was already in rigor when Adam called 911, even by the TOD offered by the ME.

The helicopters taking photos of RZ did so early in the day, as soon as the news broke (reporters likely heard the Coronado PD dispatch the EMTs and officers on their emergency scanners and got reporters to the scene shortly after ).

In addition, if RZ had been hanging straight when cut down by Adam, lividity would accumulated in her hands and feet, not her back, side and chest. She would have been in rigor and would be laying straight on the ground.

 

[Lezah]

Perhaps because the rope was cut but not the noose around her neck.

But, if your trying to save someone’s life wouldn’t you first loosen a rope around their neck - so they could breathe?

..unless you already knew they were dead...but if you already knew they were dead, so didn’t loosen the rope around their throat..why would you try to take a pulse.....?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Inparadise]

There would have been no problem in her leaving. If Jonah was angry about Max and blaming it on RZ, all she needed to do was pack her things and move back with her sister/family or return to AZ. She was a very attractive young, healthy, intelligent person with education, skills and job experience.

That's probably what she intended to do. Perhaps her killer knew her plans and thought it was his one last chance to indulge his sexual fantasies.

Rebecca had a future without Jonah. She owned a home in Phoenix: she could have gone there and gone back to her former place of employment. Her life was not over by a long shot, that is until someone brutally murdered her.

 

[Lezah]

Imo, Rebecca's bent legs in the crime scene photos and Mr. Greer pointing out the hogtie rope ends attached to both sets of bindings have already convinced the jury that she couldn't possibly have killed herself by dropping herself off the balcony. And the defense fighting so hard to hide rope lengths and the distance her feet would've been from the ground if things had happened as SDSO and the defense say, was a bonus. No way did they want to draw attention to any of that, because even if she was at any point hanging from that balcony, it would appear to be her knees, not her feet, that were closest to the ground.

I think you have hit the nail right on the head here!

The hogtie evidence was powerful. I believe the fact the rope length also matches exactly the correct distance between her hands and feet was one of those stand out moments in the courtroom for the jury.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Lezah]

Under California law, the Medical Examiner is both required and empowered to determine the cause and circumstance of certain deaths (California Government Code Section 27491). After reading up on the Code, and just the "Investigative Report" (preface to AR), it became more clear to me why Dr. Lucas, the author of the AR, did not give evidence. IMO, Mr. Greer would be able to impeach Dr. Lucas as a witness by merely crossing him on the first 3 pages of the Investigative Report which begin: Medical Examiner's jurisdiction invoked according to the California Code 27491: Death due to known or suspected homicide. The Narrative further confirms that both the Medical Examiner Investigator (Dana Gary) and Deputy Medical Examiner (Dr. Lucas) did not arrive at the scene until 7:15pm, and that RZ naked, bound, body was not bagged and transported to ME office until after 8pm! Oh, and did I mention that the 911 scenario in the report directly contradicts AS testimony...

I'm just speculating but I believe had Dr. Lucas testified, and impeached by Mr. Greer during cross examination, Lucas would not have been dismissed (he's credible and authored the report) but rather the Judge would have to instruct the Jurors to disregard his testimony. Just imagine the Defense being told that the court will not credit the Medical Examiner witnesses testimony. There really was no way they could allow Dr. Lucas to take the stand. (It's called the falsus in uno charge).

https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/me/families/theprocess.html

Wow. Just...wow.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[stmarysmead]

Rebecca had a future without Jonah. She owned a home in Phoenix: she could have gone there and gone back to her former place of employment. Her life was not over by a long shot, that is until someone brutally murdered her.

She has a history of running away, not behaving as you suggest. This was the testimony. She could not run away from the investigation into Max’s fall. She was just like Adam...the only one there. One atténding Dr thought the child had been suffocated. And only the Zahau sisters were there.

That’s a frightening situation to be in. Just the way Adam is treated here, others might have treated her.

 

[Lezah]

If Greer had identified the ME as one of his witnesses before trial, he could have called him to testify during his case-in-chief. Apparently, he did not list the ME as his own witness -- the defense apparently did though, but then ultimately did not call him to testify (as is their right). I don't think Greer could have called the him as a rebuttal witness (after the defense case) because, as I previously stated in response to your other question on this issue (see post # 231), I don't think the ME would have rebutted any of the defense's points.

Perhaps it was a planned strategy from the outset by the defense to never call Lucas...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Betty P]

I think you have hit the nail right on the head here!

The hogtie evidence was powerful. I believe the fact the rope length also matches exactly the correct distance between her hands and feet was one of those stand out moments in the courtroom for the jury.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agree. Another stand out moment for the jury was the demonstration showing how Rebecca was holding the chef's knife behind her back, attempting to cut the rope that was binding her.

There's no other explanation for her fingerprints on the knife blade. The poor woman was trying desperately to get free of the ropes. She fought hard for her life.

 

[MyBelle]

Can you explain how, when she was in a state of rigor mortis, her legs were bent? The only explanation would be if she were hog tied. How would she get over the balcony railing in that position? Hands and feet tightly bound with the same rope, knees bent.

I'm not qualified to offer an explanation. That's best left to expert witnesses, imo.

 

[Lezah]

Were the three black gloves found latex gloves? Did they find a source for the gloves (i.e., a box of latex gloves) on the premises?

Its a valid question...but IMO if they didn’t collect a ’handful’(!) of hair in the shower, or test the ‘red stains’(!) in the shower, or the panties in the guesthouse(!) ...well...you know where I’m going with this....do you think they would look for a box of gloves...?

( no disrespect intended❤&#65039

PS it was a pair of ‘gardening gloves’ and a single black ‘latex glove’ found I believe)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[stmarysmead]

Agree. Another stand out moment for the jury was the demonstration showing how Rebecca was holding the chef's knife behind her back, attempting to cut the rope that was binding her.

There's no other explanation for her fingerprints on the knife blade. The poor woman was trying desperately to get free of the ropes. She fought hard for her life.

After being bound, how would she get a knife?

 

[MyBelle]

He appeared to the jury to be untruthful, as his deposition was entirely inconsistent with his testimony.

That’s the entire point of ...the post.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't know what the jury is thinking nor do I pretend to know. If they believe he's responsible, they will render a verdict against him.

 

[Betty P]

Its a valid question...but IMO if they didn’t collect a ’handful’(!) of hair in the shower, or test the ‘red stains’(!) in the shower, or the panties in the guesthouse(!) ...well...you know where I’m going with this....do you think they would look for a box of gloves...?

( no disrespect intended❤&#65039

PS it was a pair of ‘gardening gloves’ and a single black ‘latex glove’ found I believe)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Don't forget, they never looked for the roll of duct tape used to bind Rebecca's legs.

 

[Harmony 2]

Timeline of Rigor Mortis
There are many factors to consider when examining rigor mortis in order to come to any conclusions or findings about a person's death. This is the general timeline that rigor mortis will follow under regular conditions:

0 to 8 Hours: The body starts to stiffen, but is still movable
8 to 12 Hours: Muscles become completely stiff
12 to 24 Hours: Muscles stay stiff
24 to 36 Hours: Stiffness dissipates and muscles become flexible

https://study.com/academy/lesson/rigor-mortis-definition-timeline-stages.html

It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.
http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

 

[Betty P]

After being bound, how would she get a knife?

My theory is that, when Adam left the room for some reason (possibly to retrieve paint supplies), she was left alone. She was probably sitting on the floor (per blood stain evidence found on the carpeting) She leaned over and worked her way to the knife (probably lying on the floor), then grabbed it with her fingers. At one point, she held the knife just by the blade and attempted a sawing motion towards the rope. At another point, she was able to grab the handle and, behind her back, turned it towards the ropes again.

Adam returned to the room in time to stop her. At that point he probably strangled her into unconsciousness, then finished his "work". Recall Dr. Cyril Wecht's autopsy report determined she was still barely alive when she was hung from the balcony. JMO

 

[Tricia]

Mr Greer is going to call me in about an hour so now is the time if you have any questions for him.

 

[Lezah]

Thanks. I think I got it wrong -- I think it was technically the second floor where the bedrooms and Rebecca's artist studio were.

For info - JS testified RZ’s artists studio was on the third floor ( he described it as a spare room she used as an artists studio)

(So IMO, this indicates whoever got the paint tube from the third floor room was familiar with its location, but unfamiliar with how to utilize the tube to apply paint to the door)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk