Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

[stmarysmead]

Agree entirely w/K_Z. Before anyone asks why the Zahaus haven't done x, y, or z, keep in mind they tried in the beginning to get RZ's case reopened and failed, and I'm sure they spent money at that time. Now they're trying to foot the bill for their end of the civil trial, and they're far from wealthy. They're operating on a shoestring budget, attempting to pay their expert witnesses (and falling farther and farther behind, from what I can tell), and Mr. Greer is not only working pro bono, but also contribured to their account, for crying out loud.

They're tapped out, vs. the other side's apparently limitless funds.

But didn’t they receive $100,000 from NR’s insurance company? Didn’t Dr Phil make a donation to their fund in order to do the two day special during Prime Time? Cyril Wecht was pro bono and so is Mr Greer.

IMO they have a more credible case against the medical examiner ...if they feel evidence was degraded and their loved ones remains demeaned? But they gave the ME, The city of San Diego and the PD a pass?

I do find that hard to understand.

 

[Lezah]

The makeup of the jury seems to be a great cross-section of people. Old, young, middle-aged, different ethnicities, mix of male/female. I am glad you asked because at the time it struck me as a very good mix of people.

I wonder which woman was released due to vacation plans. There was also one woman tearing up during the 911 calls.

I agree too, it’s a very good mix and they all appear very attentive.

 

[stmarysmead]

So IMO here is a scenario that I really think could've have happened:

Complete rigor mortis takes up to 12 hours after death to fully set in, and starts with smaller parts of body first, i.e. eyelids, jaw etc., and larger muscles last. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis) With the time of death range given in this case, it is likely that full rigor mortis had not set in at the time that AS discovered RZ's body. When placing RZ on the ground, or any attempt to move her body, it is likely that one would place arms under the leg, as this is the natural way to carry/pickup/move a body. Furthermore, since RZ's hands were tied behind her back you wouldn't place her directly on her back. This could explain how the body was positioned with legs bent, and slightly on one side. It would make sense as full rigor mortis set in that the legs then became rigid in this position.

As for lividity settling in the back, if a body is moved within a certain time after a hanging death and placed in a different position, then the hypostasis in the limbs will fade and new areas of lividity can appear along the back.

Suicide is sad, tragic, and traumatizing for those left behind. It might not always make sense, and it is understandable that grieving family members do not want to think that their loved one chose to die. However, that does not make it murder.

Excellent post that answers some of my questions. Thank you.

 

[Betty P]

I doubt the investigation will be reopened. Not after Dr. Davis' testimony which concurred with the ME. I've never heard of a case where the plaintiff's attorney can demand an expert witness produce data to support his expert opinion. I thought that was the entire point of being designated "expert" by the Judge.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I disagree. With the amount of new and uncovered evidence that has come to light in this trial, it's obvious. the case needs to be reopened. I doubt anyone in San Diego County or Sacramento wants to be seen opposing that effort.

 

[Hatfield]

For some like myself who has not had a chance to follow the trial so far the thing I would like to get an opinion on is this.

This is based on the assumption that it should have been obvious there is a possibility of foul play from the scene.

So what were the suspected motivations of the medical examiner and LE to quickly rule this a suicide and make this case go away?

Was it because of the wealthy owner of the home who may have been known to LE and the community?

Was it because they may have felt sympathy with the owner and that she had it coming to her if she let the child have a deadly accident under her watch?

Did the homeowner know someone personally in LE or the ME office personnel?

Was this just plain imcompetence and nothing more than that?

IMO I have no doubt this was not a suicide and trying to understand how or why things went towards that so quickly.

 

[*Lash*]

Does anyone know what type of knots chisnall said was used?

Hi Brit :wave:

In this video, I believe the knot expert says 2 (inaudible-maybe,zed?) half hitches...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gweg3

 

[Lezah]

But didn’t they receive $100,000 from NR’s insurance company? Didn’t Dr Phil make a donation to their fund in order to do the two day special during Prime Time? Cyril Wecht was pro bono and so is Mr Greer.

IMO they have a more credible case against the medical examiner ...if they feel evidence was degraded and their loved ones remains demeaned? But they gave the ME, The city of San Diego and the PD a pass?

I do find that hard to understand.

My understanding is that Mr Greer is donating his time to manage this case, and has done for some considerable time. However, we should consider every time a filing is made to the court (each ‘register of action’ ) there is a fee to be paid...and we are on around 900 PLUS filings in this case...plus production of documents, copies etc, before you even show up in court. It’s not only his time that has a cost.

( there is also a high cost for deposing witnesses, and we’ve seen a lot of depositions in this case too)

Dr Wecht stated that he did not charge for the autopsy, but I understand he was paid for his testimony and travel expenses as were the other experts in the case.

Dr Wecht advised in his testimony that Dr Phil covered the transportation costs to Dr Wecht’s facilities of RZ body and also the exhumation cost, but nothing else.

The settlement from the insurance company would have been very likely gobbled up PDQ by the administration costs. Remember too, Mary works, she has had to take time off work for this, adding to the financial burden.

Perhaps some legal bod on WS can speak to the potential case the family may have against the medical examiner, but I would imagine there are high hurdles regarding immunity protections for governmental state employees? Maybe someone else can chip in.

To summarize, the one aspect in this case we can be absolutely certain of is the extraordinary high financial cost to the family, which, in my opinion although hugely stressful...it really does pale into insignificance when compared to the emotional and psychological cost they are paying whilst fighting for their cause.

 

[Lilibet]

Yes. Last minute. Greer fully expected Dr. Lucas to take the stand on Monday. They pulled him last minute, per Greer.

I certainly hope the defense wasn’t reading here, and, seeing the difficult questions we wanted Greer to ask the ME, decided to pull him as a witness. I wouldn’t put it past the well-staffed defense team to read here to get a sense of the thinking of those who think it was murder. After all, we’re smart and pull no punches!

 

[MyBelle]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I disagree. With the amount of new and uncovered evidence that has come to light in this trial, it's obvious. the case needs to be reopened. I doubt anyone in San Diego County or Sacramento wants to be seen opposing that effort.

That's okay by me. I'm just waiting for the evidence that points to Adam as the cause of RZ's death.

 

[Lilibet]

Hehe! Perhaps they were reading our suggested questions here over the weekend and it scared the pants off them.

Oops! I didn’t see this before posting the same thing. I’d hate to think we made it harder for Greer to make his case, though.

 

[stmarysmead]

My understanding is that Mr Greer is donating his time to manage this case, and has done for some considerable time. However, we should consider every time a filing is made to the court (each ‘register of action’ ) there is a fee to be paid...and we are on around 900 PLUS filings in this case...plus production of documents, copies etc, before you even show up in court. It’s not only his time that has a cost.

( there is also a high cost for deposing witnesses, and we’ve seen a lot of depositions in this case too)

Dr Wecht stated that he did not charge for the autopsy, but I understand he was paid for his testimony and travel expenses as were the other experts in the case.

Dr Wecht advised in his testimony that Dr Phil covered the transportation costs to Dr Wecht’s facilities of RZ body and also the exhumation cost, but nothing else.

The settlement from the insurance company would have been very likely gobbled up PDQ by the administration costs. Remember too, Mary works, she has had to take time off work for this, adding to the financial burden.

Perhaps some legal bod on WS can speak to the potential case the family may have against the medical examiner, but I would imagine there are high hurdles regarding immunity protections for governmental state employees? Maybe someone else can chip in.

To summarize, the one aspect in this case we can be absolutely certain of is the extraordinary high financial cost to the family, which, in my opinion although hugely stressful...it really does pale into insignificance when compared to the emotional and psychological cost they are paying whilst fighting for their cause.

Thank you for this post. Definitely clarified the matter for me.

 

[*Lash*]

In my very humble opinion :daisy:they’re reading and have posted here.

 

[Lezah]

I think Wecht's evolving conclusion from "inconclusive" on Dr. Phil to "homicide" at trial would raise a few concerns with the jury. It sure would with me.

In court, during the last ten minutes of re-cross of Dr Wecht’s testimony , Mr Greer put up a document Dr Wecht wrote to the family’s then attorney ( Anne Bremner I believe) which had originally accompanied the autopsy

( Background - my understanding is that the defence had successfully prevented the additional letter from being included as evidence as it was supplemental to the actual autopsy report)

However, Mr Webb had referred to it in his cross examination and questioning, so when Mr Greer needed to address an issue he asked for it to be allowed. The judge agreed - after several objections by the defense)

You could hear pin drop in the courtroom as the document was read out from the big screen for the jury...

It very clearly stated that Dr Wecht concluded RZ had “...been strangled and the hanging was likely utilized afterwards to cover up the true cause of death...”

The letter was dated 2011, same as the second autopsy.

BOOM! The complete defense day of argument went straight. down. the. pan.

“No further questions your honor” said Greer.

And out went the jury for the day...I will never forget it!

IMO...That’s when the defense strategy shifted... and they probably decided then not to call the ME as a witness..but just kept quiet about it...


( all based on my opinion and best recollection of the trail)

 

[Brit]

Hi Brit :wave:

In this video, I believe the knot expert says 2 (inaudible-maybe,zed?) half hitches...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gweg3

Thanks so much Lash.
So the defense says half hutch but the plaintiffs say clove hitch I believe. A Clove hitch is two half hitches together......I wish they had shown full testimony because I am wondering if this expert and the plaintiff expert just use two different terminologies. If he said two half hitches- that would essentially be a clove hitch..... maybe someone more knowledgeable about knots can explain.

 

[stmarysmead]

Zahau family sues Sheriff Gore seeking evidence in Coronado death

May 08, 2013

www.cbs8.com/story/22189885/family-of-rebecca-zahau-to-sue-sheriff-bill-gore-seeking-evidence-in-her-death

Family Sues to Reopen Coronado Mansion Death Investigation

May 8, 2013

www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Coronado-Mansion-Death-Zahau-Family-to-Speak--206584951.html

Zahau Family Expected To File Suit Against San Diego Sheriff’s Dept.

May 8, 2013

www.kpbs.org/news/2013/may/08/zahau-family-expect-file-suit-against-san-diego-sh/

View Case Detail:

courtindex.sdcourt.ca.gov/CISPublic/casedetail?casenum=201300047752&casesite=SD&applcode=C

Confused again. So they did file a case. Did the Zahau family prevail?

 

[minorone]

Back on the AR:

Dr. Wecht noted that lividity was fixed in Rebecca’s back & he hypothesized that if Rebecca had died as a result of hanging, lividity would have been fixed in her lower limbs.

Fixed lividity sets in a minimum of 6-12 hours after death (usually earlier if it is warmer and later if it is colder). Lividity starts becoming partially fixed within a couple of hours after death. Blood starts settling into the tissues and clotting. Prior to lividity becoming fixed, it can move but not as much as it would have moved soon after death. If she was on her back after death and prior to being moved to a hanging position, there would be a mixed pattern of lividity or dual lividity.
Estimated time of RZ death - 3am on July 13th
AS called 911 at 6:48am on July 13th, after having allegedly cut Rebecca’s body down from the balcony and laying her body on her back in the courtyard.
RZ would have been hanging for approx. 3hrs.40 minutes.

If lividity becomes partially fixed within a couple of hours after death, there should be lividity in her feet as well her back.

From the AR:
POSTMORTEM CHANGES: Rigor mortis is mild and easily broken in the upper an lower extremities, neck, and jaw. Livor mortis posterior, red and fixed. There is als red livor mortis on the upper chest. There is green discoloration of each lower quadrar of the abdomen. Skip slips with pressure.

I looked for why livor mortis is red and fixed. Red blood cells, which are very dense, travel and pool in the lowest areas possible, staining the tissue.
Is there an explanation for why there is livor mortis on the upper chest as well?

No mention of livor mortis in the extremities. From what I've read about hanging deaths, livor mortis develops in the feet and hands.

 

[Lezah]

I certainly hope the defense wasn’t reading here, and, seeing the difficult questions we wanted Greer to ask the ME, decided to pull him as a witness. I wouldn’t put it past the well-staffed defense team to read here to get a sense of the thinking of those who think it was murder. After all, we’re smart and pull no punches!

One of the recent defense court filings refers to Websleuths, and Tricia’s interview and I recall they said that they are ‘very familiar’ with the website....

 

[Imp]

I agree too, it’s a very good mix and they all appear very attentive.

Thanks to both justice be served and you for your responses.

I'm interested in how many women vs. men are on the jury. Imo, women are going to have a heck of a time believing another woman would do to herself what SDSO and the defense claim Rebecca did. I would imagine any woman (to clarify - any woman without an agenda or an ax to grind for some bizarre reason against RZ) by this point has called B.S. on the suicide ruling.

 

[Seattle1]

There have been a lot of questions about the missing ME which reminds me of another time Dr Lucas was missing: I've not been able to find it in print so it must have been at a news conference where I recall Sheriff Gore responded to question about why RZ was left outside on the grass for more than 10 hours. His response was to the effect that Dr Lucas, ME was attending a medical conference in LA and came to the scene as soon as he was able to get away. There was a follow-up question about why didn't they call someone else and Gore indicated it was a large ME Conference (county wide attendance) and they were short staffed. IMO from recall...

Hoping somebody else remembers this and can help with a link.

 

[Imp]

In my very humble opinion :daisy:they’re reading and have posted here.

In my even more humble opinion, I agree with your very humble opinion.