Rebuttal to Sheriff Bill Gore’s press conference

[cynic]

Sheriff Bill Gore’s press conference. Wednesday. November 16, 2011
Sheriff Bill Gore, Dr. Jonathan Lucas, (Medical Examiner) and Mike Grubb, Director, San Diego Sheriff’s Department, Crime Lab
http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

I thought I would start a thread for a response to the information presented at the presss conference.

Here is an exchange between a reporter and Jonathan Lucas regarding the head injuries on RZ:
Lucas: Evidence at the scene supports and the bindings support the notion that she leaned over the balcony shifted her body weight over and went over in that fashion and you can imagine that she would be going with her head down or at least sideways. It’s my thought that one of those impacts on the head was probably from the edge of the balcony as she went over. There were 4 impacts, one of them was two inches by one inch, that’s the one that I think was probably from going over the balcony, the three others were smaller than a nickel, not only did they not represent enough force to cause unconsciousness they may not have even given her a headache, these were small injuries. I do not know exactly how they happened, but they were minor and inconsequential.
Reporter: Could the 2 x 1 inch injury have caused unconsciousness?
Lucas: I don’t know.
Reporter: You are aware that the balcony has no lip that sticks out, right, there is nothing to hit on the way down, because there is no lip that sticks out beyond the railing.
Lucas: I still think that she could have hit, the railing, there is spaces between the railing. I think she could have gotten her head on the edge, it may not stick out, but there is still space for her to get her head in there.
Reporter: Do you think it’s unlikely that after she went down and became vertical, maybe the swing a little bit, it would be unlikely for her to hit her head at that point?
Lucas: I think that’s a possibility
One other option was when she was cut down there may have been possibly an impact in that way, it could have bled a little bit, even post mortem you can get a little bleeding after death.

Three options are presented as the possible cause of the head injuries.
1. Impact with the railing.
2. Presumably, although not specified, impact with something else such as the house by virtue of some sort of swing motion.
3. Presumably, although not specified, impact with something else such as the table or ground when RZ was cut down by AS.

I will start with the first point, impact with the railing.
I find this ridiculous, and I can’t believe that Lucas seriously believes this.
If he does than why don’t they do an animation of how this allegedly happened.
They won’t because there is nothing in the trajectory of RZ’s fall that would account for the head injuries.

With respect to the second point, the house was two feet away from the plane of RZ’s fall, there would have to be a serious swing motion for her to travel to the point of impact. I can see no likely interaction that would lead to a swing of that length. Even had such a swing occurred, the rope would have held her head away from any impact with the house. It is completely inconceivable that the top of RZ’s head could impact anything once under tension from the rope.

In terms of the last point, this should not even be discussed because how is it that the investigators would not have asked AS what his specific actions were as he cut RZ down and how she was moved to the final location on the grass, not to mention if he allowed her to drop rather than holding her up.
And again, all of these possibilities would need to account for four separate injuries, not just one.

Furthermore, as has been mentioned previously, where are the injuries to RZ’s face and torso? Why are there numerous abrasions to RZ’s back and just two to the back of her arms?

 

[elfie]

Another excellent evaluation Cynic! Thank you for outlining the specifics.

I really don't see how she could have impacted her head with the railing and not have scraped her ear, and the side of her face or shoulder. We have already determined that she would have been suspended far enough under the supports by the time any swinging may have started to consider them candidates.

Dr. Wecht specified that the impacts would have been from a smooth rounded object, also ruling out the railing, the edge of the table and the ground.

 

[defense101]

Thanks cynic, there is so much to rebut...

I watched again the recent Gore press conference in regards to the Dr Phil show, I noticed that the ME states that Rebecca went down head first which is why her neck wasn't broken, yet he then states the bumps on the top her head were caused by the edge of the balcony, wouldn't that then mean that in order to get the bumps on the top of her head that Rebecca would have to have somersaulted into vertical drop position which then should have caused her neck to break as in a judicial hanging. As well he uses the word probably? Perhaps hit by the rope on the way down? Maybe when she was cut down bumped her head? REALLY? You are determining someones manner of death and you are using words like probably, maybe, perhaps?

Sheriff Gore: we assumed the blood in the shower was hers, through logical investigative work not through dna testing, we don't test every little thing we just don't do that. WOW! In a possible murder investigation you just don't do that?

Regarding Nina's lie detector test, he says that when we looked at the totality of the investigation we didn't see the need to have her take one. Then that would mean they decided that suicide was the manner of death very early on.
He said yes that Dina wasn't on the hospital video surveillance and that they determined her whereabouts by triangulation of the cell towers, but they didn't request those records until August 28th. So for a month and half while they knew she wasn't on the tapes they didn't request the records??? Didn't see the need to get her DNA or fingerprints even though they knew this? What were they investigating, nothing it seems. This just stinks to high heaven IMO

It also sounds like he tried to influence Dr Phil's direction of the show by speaking to him prior to the show being taped, which didn't work as he was suprised at the turn the show took. Shame shame shame on you!

You could also tell as the questions went on both the ME and Gore were getting nervous as if they hadn't expected such detailed questions. The reporter asking the majority of the question had Gore wiping his brow in what seemed like frustration. Good work on that reporters behalf, it doesn't look like Jonah's PR machine has been able to subdue this reporter.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/1606801...r-zahau-death-
Last edited by defense101; 11-18-2011 at 11:03 PM.

 

[Callie]

Thanks so much for the visual, cynic. I've been trying to figure out where the areas of trauma were by reading the AR. Pain in the *** that way.

 

[arielilane]

• Wecht disputed the original postmortem, saying that he found evidence of blunt trauma to Zahau's head, which could have been caused by an attacker "Good Morning America" reports.

• He also doubted that Zahau, 32, hanged herself, because her neck wasn't fractured.

• The evidence was suspicious, Wecht says, leading him to say he'd change the cause of death from suicide to undetermined on the death certificate, according to "Good Morning America."

• The San Diego County Medical Examiner interpreted the head injuries differently, saying that they were "relatively minor," according to TV station KFMB.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/17/rebecca-zahaus-dr-phil_n_1099376.html#s314363

 

[Carpe Pacem]

If Cynic ever gets tired of his screen name, a worthy substitute would be "Awesome Genius." He deserves a tremendous round of applause for his thinking processes and skills!

 

[point_blanked]

Hi cynic, I snipped your post hopefully to just the images, I've mostly been lurking here and elsewhere but your post made me think a little. I don't know what happened to RZ that night, but I have a very hard time believing what the SDLE would like us to believe.

Your image of the head injuries stood out to me here because I immediately noticed the grouping of the three subgaleal hemorrhages on the right side of RZs forehead are grouped together in a way that reflects some of the shapes in the wrought iron design on the balcony. I imagine this is your approximation of where they are based on the details of the autopsy so they're not exact, but please bear with me.

The white circle you use to represent RZs head lies right over a 'fluer de lis' (you can see it clearly on the left side in the top photo). Just below that and to the right there is a triangular shape that closely matches the three bruises on the forehead (on the left side of the balcony it's more easily seen to the left and below the fleur de lis but it's a reflection of the right side - ie. the design is the same on both sides of the balcony reflected across the center line)

Now for a little speculation. The extra 84" of rope that was connected to the wrist bindings stuck out to me, because everything else with regards to the rope was so precise, why is the extra length there? What if RZ was placed over the balcony half unconscious (or even dead) from prior strangulation and her head was hanging in the general area of your white circle. The additional length of rope from the wrist bindings was threaded through her legs towards the front of her body and then brought back around under the ankle bindings and into the hands of a perp standing within the doorway (maybe even on a chair).

Option 1 : If the perp then quickly raised their end of the extra length it would cause RZs legs to come up it the air and flip her body around her waist over the balcony. As her legs and torso make their way around the balcony railing, RZs head would naturally be forced towards the balcony into the area of the fluer de lis (or the 'x' just above it) causing the bruising to the top of the head. As her feet continued their rotation around her center of gravity the right side of her forehead would make an impact with the triangular shape just below and to the right of the fleur de lis.

Another option : the three bruises on the forehead also match up very nicely with the three 'points' on the fleur de lis and while there is no overhang of the balcony landing there are cylindrical supports that appear to stick out slightly beyond the edge of the balcony landing. I'm not sure what kind of impact they would cause but they look very round and mostly smooth and could have possibly caused the bruise to the top of her head.

I don't know if this is technically possible in the world of physics. I also don't think it's known how the additional length of rope was hanging when police arrived. They said it did not appear that she had been hogtied, but IMO it's possible the additional length of rope from the hands could have acted as a temporary connection between her wrists and legs.

Thanks for all your hard work here cynic!

 

[cynic]

Hi cynic, I snipped your post hopefully to just the images, I've mostly been lurking here and elsewhere but your post made me think a little. I don't know what happened to RZ that night, but I have a very hard time believing what the SDLE would like us to believe.

Your image of the head injuries stood out to me here because I immediately noticed the grouping of the three subgaleal hemorrhages on the right side of RZs forehead are grouped together in a way that reflects some of the shapes in the wrought iron design on the balcony. I imagine this is your approximation of where they are based on the details of the autopsy so they're not exact, but please bear with me.

The white circle you use to represent RZs head lies right over a 'fluer de lis' (you can see it clearly on the left side in the top photo). Just below that and to the right there is a triangular shape that closely matches the three bruises on the forehead (on the left side of the balcony it's more easily seen to the left and below the fleur de lis but it's a reflection of the right side - ie. the design is the same on both sides of the balcony reflected across the center line)

Now for a little speculation. The extra 84" of rope that was connected to the wrist bindings stuck out to me, because everything else with regards to the rope was so precise, why is the extra length there? What if RZ was placed over the balcony half unconscious (or even dead) from prior strangulation and her head was hanging in the general area of your white circle. The additional length of rope from the wrist bindings was threaded through her legs towards the front of her body and then brought back around under the ankle bindings and into the hands of a perp standing within the doorway (maybe even on a chair).

Option 1 : If the perp then quickly raised their end of the extra length it would cause RZs legs to come up it the air and flip her body around her waist over the balcony. As her legs and torso make their way around the balcony railing, RZs head would naturally be forced towards the balcony into the area of the fluer de lis (or the 'x' just above it) causing the bruising to the top of the head. As her feet continued their rotation around her center of gravity the right side of her forehead would make an impact with the triangular shape just below and to the right of the fleur de lis.

Another option : the three bruises on the forehead also match up very nicely with the three 'points' on the fleur de lis and while there is no overhang of the balcony landing there are cylindrical supports that appear to stick out slightly beyond the edge of the balcony landing. I'm not sure what kind of impact they would cause but they look very round and mostly smooth and could have possibly caused the bruise to the top of her head.

I don't know if this is technically possible in the world of physics. I also don't think it's known how the additional length of rope was hanging when police arrived. They said it did not appear that she had been hogtied, but IMO it's possible the additional length of rope from the hands could have acted as a temporary connection between her wrists and legs.

The hemorrhages on RZ’s head have no accompanying bruises, abrasions or lacerations. They could be the result of someone hitting RZ with a blunt object or RZ’s head forcibly contacting a blunt object. The railing has sharp radius edges that in my opinion be more likely to abrade and possibly lacerate the head rather than what we see here in the autopsy report.
The injury to the top of RZ’s head is extremely difficult to explain with any scenario involving a flip over the railing. There is only one possible point in RZ’s free fall that a window of opportunity exists for this injury, that is, when she was in the middle of flipping from a headfirst to feet first fall.
It is very difficult to say the flip to vertical / feet first came while she was still travelling near the balcony or had cleared it. Acceleration due to gravity (32 feet per second per second) is very significant and the top of RZ’s head would only need to travel 7 or 8 inches to clear the balcony, which would obviously happen in a split second.
Not only would RZ have to be in the correct position, but at the very same time during this fraction of a second, there would have to be some force acting on RZ to cause her to move back forcibly to contact some surface on the railing that would have a smooth and broad enough surface to produce a 2 x 1 inch bleed below the scalp without an accompanying laceration, abrasion or bruise.
By contrast, (assuming contact with the railing,) the other 3 injuries on the right side of RZ’s head would by necessity need to occur with at the time when RZ would in a headfirst position and her head would need to be turned to the left rather than what be a natural neutral position. If her head were turned and moving downward, I would ask why there would be no abrasion or injury to RZ’s right ear?

The physics of this fall center around the dominating force in this incident, gravity.
The very instant that RZ’s center of gravity cleared the top of the railing in any scenario involving a flip over the railing (including the one you proposed by way of a hypothetical,) she would begin rapidly moving downward. Only strong momentary forces pushing RZ’s head toward the house would account for the injuries and I fail to see any mechanism that could accomplish that.
To address your scenario, specifically, I would think that it would more than likely produce significant injuries to the front of RZ’s face rather than any other area of her head.
With respect to possible contact with the lower section of the balcony that has the series of “circles,” it appears that they are quite smooth and only protrude very slightly. Contact with this would be by way of a glancing blow with reduced force due to the fact that the head would simply flex forward and away from any significant contact, and of course, her body and head would have to be half way through rotation to vertical in order to be in position, IMO.

 

[arielilane]

Others have mentioned the red doggie bone was what she may have been hit with. I agree with this as well. Especially since this was not an item taken into evidence.

Property and items seized in the search of the premises as follows:

1. knife
2. pair of black gloves
3. paper towel
4. box w/paint supplies
5. Dr. Pepper bottle
6. clothing
7. flip camera
8. basket w/cameras
9. stain kit
10. clump of hair
11. document addressed to Jonah
12. tissue w/red stain
13. clothing
14. hair
15. receipt for paint supplies
16. candle
17. water bottle
18. bedding
19. 2 red plastic cups
20. underwear
21. black latex glove
22. table
23. greeting card
24. paper w/writing
25. bedding
26. butcher knife
27. steak knife
28. white plastic bag
29. rope
30. Samsung cell phone
31. paint brush
32. stain kit
33. small paint brush

 

[cynic]

Lividity:

Reporter: Dr. Lucas, I’m sure it’s in your initial report, but somewhere there’s some language about lividity in the body, and this has come up in a lot of internet sites that there was liviidity in her back but was there lividity in her feet and can it transfer if she’s hanging for three hours and she gets lividity in her feet, can it transfer to her back after she’s laying in the courtyard for 15 hours and isn’t it better for a medical examiner to examine the body for lividity in the feet, like right away, like go and see if there’s lividity within 90 minutes rather than waiting 15 hours to go and examine the body?

Dr. Lucas: The lividity pattern is an easy explanation, and you’re absolutely right, lividity is simply the blood, the dark red discoloration on the body when the blood settles with gravity after death and it follows gravity if you turn the body, or move the body, for the first 10 or 12 hours it will just follow gravity, so that’s precisely why… she was found certainly less than 12 hours after she died, it was actually, I think, only a few hours or so, more or less, and laid down on the grass and once that happened, the minute she got on the grass, the blood started to re-settle and remained in her back. As to the length of time between the death or the discovery I should say and our arrival, we in this particular case, it’s critical that evidence around the body be processed by the Sheriff’s department or any other law enforcement agency before we get there because they can’t have us walking through the crime scene and then removing the body is actually also a fairly disruptive process and we want to make sure evidence is collected around the body first and the Sheriff’s department is very good about expediting that as fast as possible, given the case.

Reporter: In the initial photographs that were taken, early on after the 911 call, were there photographs taken showing that there may be red splotches or lividity found in her feet or did anyone from your office walk up to the body and notice lividity in her feet early on?

Dr. Lucas: No, our office did not have a representative there until several hours in, I don’t know the exact time, so we weren’t there to examine it until the time at which the body was removed.

Reporter: Did you see any photographs ever showing lividity in the feet?

Dr. Lucas: The photographs that I can recall of the top of my head, I never saw anything that would be inconsistent with the scenario as we understand it, so I didn’t see anything out of sorts, I didn’t see lividity against gravity and especially if she’s only been dead for a few hours lividity is going to transfer real quick.

Reporter: So your opinion is that if someone had examined the body right when she was cut down and if she had been there for say three hours there would have been some noticeable lividity in her feet and once she lay there for a half a day then the lividity from her feet went away.

Dr Lucas: Yes, the moment she was cut down if there was a photograph when that occurred it’s logical to conclude that she would have had lividity in her feet, probably her hands as well, but she was so fresh when she was brought down that that would have re-settled pretty quickly.

Reporter: And that by the time you got there, you never noticed any lividity in her feet.

Dr. Lucas: I wouldn’t have expected it to be there by the time we got there.
http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested


Dr. Lucas: “… I didn’t see anything out of sorts, I didn’t see lividity against gravity”
It would seem that Dr. Lucas is suggesting that lividity in the lower legs would be lividity against gravity, to which I say, it’s either time for Dr. Lucas to look up the definition of gravity or have an eye examination, or both. The only way that blood from the lower legs could have left would have been by moving against gravity. He should definitely see that there is something "out of sorts," and it's not the only thing "out of sorts" in this case.

Dr. Wecht certainly doesn’t agree with Dr. Lucas.
His answer to a comment I made on the Nov 20/11 Websleuths radio show is below.
Cynic: From the lower legs, how in the world is that blood going to get just by gravity, which of course is always pulling it down toward the ground, how is it going to end up away from those legs…
Dr. Wecht: I agree, there would have been some residual settling of blood in the distal calves and feet, I agree with you.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2011/11/21/baby-lisa-irwin-rebecca-zahau-dr-cyril-wecht

 

[lauriej]

...and why DID it take the M.E. personnel SO long to get there?


..911 call 6:48 a.m.

..M.E. office contacted 8:09 a.m.

..M.E. lucas and M.E.investigator dana gary arrive at 7:14 p.m.

..rebecca's body prepared to leave the scene ( draped in a white sheet, head , arms/feet in paper bags ) placed in a vinyl pouch @ 8:17 p.m. transported/arrives at M.E. office @ 9:20 p.m.

--why did it take the M.E. so long to get there?

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested
--P/C nov.17th @ approx. 29:40

deputy M.E. lucas---"As to the length of time, uh, between the death, or the discovery I should say, and our arrival, umm, we, in this particular case, uh, it’s critical that evidence around the body be processed uh, by the sheriff’s deptartment or any other law enforcement agency before we get there because they can’t have us walking through the, the crime scene, and then umm, removing the body is actually a fairly disruptive process, and uh, we want to make sure that the evidence is collected around the body, uh, 1st and, and the sheriff’s department is very good about expediting that as fast as possible, given the case".

( chopper news is flying overhead snapping pics---the body isn't even covered with a privacy tent---and this is "as fast as possible" ??)

 

[jjenny]

Because it took so long for ME to get there, I don't believe the "time of death" they are proposing is accurate at all. What we have is just a rude estimate because her jaw was already in rigor by 7 am. I don't think that tells us anything about the earliest time she could have died.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I think the possibility of her being hog tied needs to be looked at. If her legs were bent the whole time in the hanging position, I wonder what that would mean to where the blood would settle in rigor?

And WHY are her legs bent this way? Hog tied is one good answer.

 

[cynic]

( chopper news is flying overhead snapping pics---the body isn't even covered with a privacy tent---and this is "as fast as possible" ??)

Shameful and unprofessional...

Protecting Your Crime Scene:
Even when you cover the body appropriately, you still leave the scene exposed. In an attempt to solve this problem, officers often resort to holding up a tarp or some other material to block the public’s view. An even better option for maintaining privacy is a privacy screen. These shields are usually around 10'-12' long and 4' high, and are convenient to use because they are small enough to fit in your cruiser or crime scene vehicle. They work well for blocking the view from the ground up for scenes like those that occur on the side of a roadway and block the wind from blowing away trace evidence.
For scenes where you want to protect access from more than one direction, you can use a privacy shield. These shields are also about 4' high, but they cover 360 degrees around the body. They also fold up to fit in your vehicle.
Of course, in today’s world, your job is further complicated by the media, which can appear on the ground and in the air to try to document major crime scenes. Besides worrying about still images from a long telephoto lens getting published in the newspaper, you also have to worry about video images from a hovering helicopter appearing on a television news program. As a professional, you want to spare the victim's family from seeing such things. And as a professional, you also want to conduct your investigation effectively. The suspect should not be able to view the scene and the work you are performing. Nor should the general public. By keeping the scene private, you help eliminate false leads from people whose information is only based on the images of the scene they saw on television.
Whenever you are dealing with major cases, you need to fully protect the scene on all sides and from above. The best way to do this is with a free-standing tent. The tent should be one that sets up quickly, is easily transported in your cruiser or crime scene vehicle, is self-supporting at the four corners (no center pole), and includes side panels that offer protection to the officers inside doing their job.
Investing in this type of tent is worthwhile because it can also be used for other purposes. For example, it can be used for any scene when you need protection from the elements. If you know it’s going to start raining or snowing, you can set up the tent to protect key evidence. Also, if you have a case that will take a long time to process, such as a body that needs to be excavated, you can use the tent for protection while the work proceeds.
The key goal is professionalism—we want to secure the crime scene, process it appropriately, and preserve all evidence, while always maintaining respect for the privacy and dignity of the victim. By planning ahead and using the resources available to you, you can do just that.
http://techno-forensics.com/article/protecting-your-crime-scene

This crime scene tent is ideal as an incident screen for protecting the crime scene from the elements and from onlookers. Easy to construct, with no tools or fasteners, pins, nuts or bolts, and no centre pole, it erects in seconds. Can be erected by a single person. It can also be easily decontaminated when finished with.
http://www.csiequipment.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=938

 

[cynic]

...and why DID it take the M.E. personnel SO long to get there?


..911 call 6:48 a.m.

..M.E. office contacted 8:09 a.m.

..M.E. lucas and M.E.investigator dana gary arrive at 7:14 p.m.

..rebecca's body prepared to leave the scene ( draped in a white sheet, head , arms/feet in paper bags ) placed in a vinyl pouch @ 8:17 p.m. transported/arrives at M.E. office @ 9:20 p.m.

--why did it take the M.E. so long to get there?

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested
--P/C nov.17th @ approx. 29:40

deputy M.E. lucas---"As to the length of time, uh, between the death, or the discovery I should say, and our arrival, umm, we, in this particular case, uh, it’s critical that evidence around the body be processed uh, by the sheriff’s deptartment or any other law enforcement agency before we get there because they can’t have us walking through the, the crime scene, and then umm, removing the body is actually a fairly disruptive process, and uh, we want to make sure that the evidence is collected around the body, uh, 1st and, and the sheriff’s department is very good about expediting that as fast as possible, given the case"

From a Seattle ME’s Office, Policy and Procedures manual…

Scene investigation - Non homicide:
Following the report of death by a law enforcement officer at a scene, the Medical Examiner Investigators will request that the body and its immediate surroundings remain undisturbed until their arrival. It is understood that prior to the arrival of the Medical Examiner's investigators, the police agency with jurisdiction may initiate its investigation of the scene and will use reasonable care, consistent with crime scene investigative techniques, not to disturb the body and its immediate surroundings. This includes any weapons or devices that may have been associated with the death. A Medical Examiner Investigator must approve any movement of the body, weapons, or devices.
If identification of the deceased is absolutely necessary, the police may remove the decedent's wallet to determine probable identity prior to Medical Examiner investigator's arrival. The Medical Examiner Investigator's responsibility at the scene of death is primarily the documentation of the undisturbed body and collection of evidence and property, which is a direct part of the body.
The investigation should include appropriate photography to assist in the evaluation of the scene or for other legitimate purposes. In the absence of next of kin, the Medical Examiner Investigators have the responsibility to search for identification, notify the next of kin, and take charge of valuables at the scene of death.
In an apparent suicide the investigator is to take charge of any suicide notes, as well as the weapons or devices with which the suicide was committed.
If a question exists as to whether a death resulted from suicide or homicide, it will be investigated as a homicide and the police agency may take custody of relevant physical evidence including notes, weapons, or any devices which may have been involved in the death.
The Medical Examiner Investigator does not search the body or premises except in the presence of witnesses. Police officers may be asked to witness the search and sign the property record as a witness. The Investigator will inquire of the police officer for a police incident number for inclusion in the Medical Examiner's investigative report.

Scene investigation - Questionable deaths:
When it is unclear whether a death is the result of homicidal violence, law enforcement agencies are urged to utilize the resources of the Medical Examiner's Office in determining the character of the death. In such instances the death scene should be treated with the same care as utilized in homicide investigations.

Scene investigation – Homicide:
In any death in which there is clear evidence of a homicide, the Medical Examiner/Pathologist is immediately available to respond to the scene. Because time of death is frequently an issue in homicidal violence, it is recommended that the Medical Examiner/Pathologist respond to the death scene as quickly as possible. This Examiner/Pathologist will perform an examination of the body and make arrangements for future removal by the Medical Examiner Investigator.
It is extremely important in homicide cases that the body of the deceased, including immediate surroundings, not be moved or disturbed in any way inconsistent with police crime scene investigative techniques. If such movement occurs or any disruption is present, this should be reported to the Medical Examiner/Pathologist.
Every effort should be made not to disturb the body or evidence that may be directly or indirectly associated with the death.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6527110/Medical-Examiner-Policy-_-Procedure-Manual

 

[arielilane]

I think the possibility of her being hog tied needs to be looked at. If her legs were bent the whole time in the hanging position, I wonder what that would mean to where the blood would settle in rigor?

And WHY are her legs bent this way? Hog tied is one good answer.

I have always felt that Rebecca was hogtied, because that would explain the bent legs.

 

[arielilane]

Exactly, with regards to using a tarp to protect the crime scene. I remember when Morgan Harrington's remains were found and a tarp was used.

 

[jjenny]

Thanks, cynic. Of course time of death is an issue! It really upsets me that ME took so long to arrive at the scene. Her time of death could be so important considering the screams were heard much earlier than 3 am. And then somebody checked and erased her voicemail. Was it her or somebody else? If it didn't take ME so long to arrive on the scene, he could have examined her body and more accurately to pinpoint her time of death.

 

[cynic]

Because it took so long for ME to get there, I don't believe the "time of death" they are proposing is accurate at all. What we have is just a rude estimate because her jaw was already in rigor by 7 am. I don't think that tells us anything about the earliest time she could have died.

Thanks, cynic. Of course time of death is an issue! It really upsets me that ME took so long to arrive at the scene. Her time of death could be so important considering the screams were heard much earlier than 3 am. And then somebody checked and erased her voicemail. Was it her or somebody else? If it didn't take ME so long to arrive on the scene, he could have examined her body and more accurately to pinpoint her time of death.

ITA.
Although there are a number of ways to try to narrow the range of probable time of death, time is of the essence. (Rigor is quite unreliable with respect to TOD.)
I also see no reference anywhere with respect to a temperature reading of the body, or a test of potassium level in the vitreous fluid of the eye. Lucas seems to speak only of the rigor noted by EMS personnel; it would seem unimaginable that the above two procedures were not done, but given some of what went on in this case, I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.

(Note: All of the methods below derive their greatest value when used together, they are relatively weak individually.)
Rigor mortis:
There is great variation in the rate of onset and the duration of rigor mortis, so that using the state of rigor mortis to estimate the post-mortem interval is of very little value.

Livor Mortis:
The development of livor is too variable to serve as a useful indicator of the post-mortem interval.

Body Cooling (Algor Mortis)
Body cooling is the most useful single indicator of the postmortem interval during the first 24 hours after death.

…

Whether the temperature is measured via an abdominal stab or per rectum is a matter of professional judgement in each case.
If there is easy access to the rectum without the need to seriously disturb the position of the body and if there is no reason to suspect sexual assault, then the temperature can be measured per rectum. It may be necessary to make small slits in the clothing to gain access to the rectum, if the body is clothed and the garments cannot be pushed to one side. The chemical thermometer must be inserted about 4 inches (10 cm) into the rectum and read in situ. The alternative is to make an abdominal stab wound after displacing or slitting any overlying clothing. The stab is made over the right lower ribs and the thermometer inserted within the substance of the liver, or alternatively a right subcostal stab will allow insertion of
the thermometer onto the undersurface of the liver.
These temperature readings from the body represent data, which if not collected at the scene of death is irretrievably lost. Therefore the decision not to take such readings is always a considered one.If sequential measurements of body temperature are taken then the thermometer should be left in situ during this time period. Taking sequential readings is much easier with a thermo-couple and an attached print-out device.
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/notes/Lecture%20Notes%20in%20Forensic%20Medicine%20Derrick%20Pounder%2048pages.pdf

The longer the time since death, the greater the chance for error in determining the postmortem interval. There are numerous individual observations that, when used together, provide the best estimate of the time of death. These include body temperature, rigor mortis, livor mortis, decompositional changes, and stomach contents. A thorough scene investigation must also be performed, and environmental conditions should be documented.
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0073401536/592412/Swanson10e_ch09.pdf

 

[sundrop]

All this is total speculation based on guesstimates. I didn't see any explanation for the two dirty footprint impressions on the side of the house wall (stucco) under the balcony, which suggest Rebecca was swinging at some point. Of course one might conclude the footprints were placed on the side of the house by the killer.