Related Issues and Food for Thought

[Sillybilly]

Many inmates are proven innocent and many more are sitting in jails because of some breach ie. talking to a friend...

<rsbm>

A breach of talking to a friend is a very serious matter when a court has ordered an accused not to do so (and especially so in a first degree murder case). Not only is it a blatant violation of the court Order, but it has the potential to be very damaging to a trial, possibly put witness' lives in jeopardy, etc.

 

[Tamarind]

<rsbm>

A breach of talking to a friend is a very serious matter when a court has ordered an accused not to do so (and especially so in a first degree murder case). Not only is it a blatant violation of the court Order, but it has the potential to be very damaging to a trial, possibly put witness' lives in jeopardy, etc.

Most people in jails are not there on first degree murder charges. Many are there for marijuana possession which is gradually becoming a matter that is not a chargeable offense, and rightly so in my opinion.

Many non associations are between people that are unrelated to any case. Aside from that, if people had the money ( which many don't) they could apply for a bail variation which would effectively have conditions removed. Many court orders are done at time of release on bail when many accused are so eager to get out they will agree to anything. It is between $3,000 and $5,000 for a bail variation , maybe more with some lawyers, so its easy to see why people on low income are sucked into the system and stay there. Just my opinion.


I was talking generally in my earlier post, which I thought was apparent. My apologies if it was assumed that I was only talking about first degree murder charges.

 

[Arnie M]

<rsbm>

A breach of talking to a friend is a very serious matter when a court has ordered an accused not to do so (and especially so in a first degree murder case). Not only is it a blatant violation of the court Order, but it has the potential to be very damaging to a trial, possibly put witness' lives in jeopardy, etc.

Yes , and also they dont want all the suspects getting together in order to get their stories straight (alibi's etc)

 

[Juballee]

<rsbm>

A breach of talking to a friend is a very serious matter when a court has ordered an accused not to do so (and especially so in a first degree murder case). Not only is it a blatant violation of the court Order, but it has the potential to be very damaging to a trial, possibly put witness' lives in jeopardy, etc.

That's true, MS could have been getting not only his GF to agree to lie for him, but he could have been getting her to contact others on his Do Not contact list to get a whole group of people to agree to falsify their testimony for him. One breach like that can turn a whole case around and get countless people to be false witnesses, if it means just telling a couple of little lies to save a friend from a life sentence. Who know what secret agreements have been made MS's behalf at this point.

I find it odd that even though a reporter claims that DM was also passing letters secretly, that no charges have brought on him for it, when they have been added to MS's charges. I really wonder why that would be, that one would be charged but not the other. Maybe someone had their information wrong? Or perhaps it was obtained in a way that is unverifiable to LE? It's another mystery to me.

That also makes me wonder how LE found out that MS was breaching his conditions, did one of his friends or maybe his GF come forward with the proof? Did any reporters see those letters too?

All my opinion only.

 

[Kamille]

That's true, MS could have been getting not only his GF to agree to lie for him, but he could have been getting her to contact others on his Do Not contact list to get a whole group of people to agree to falsify their testimony for him. One breach like that can turn a whole case around and get countless people to be false witnesses, if it means just telling a couple of little lies to save a friend from a life sentence. Who know what secret agreements have been made MS's behalf at this point.

I find it odd that even though a reporter claims that DM was also passing letters secretly, that no charges have brought on him for it, when they have been added to MS's charges. I really wonder why that would be, that one would be charged but not the other. Maybe someone had their information wrong? Or perhaps it was obtained in a way that is unverifiable to LE? It's another mystery to me.

That also makes me wonder how LE found out that MS was breaching his conditions, did one of his friends or maybe his GF come forward with the proof? Did any reporters see those letters too?

All my opinion only.

Did the reporter claim that DM was passing letters to people on his do not contact list?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Most people in jails are not there on first degree murder charges. Many are there for marijuana possession which is gradually becoming a matter that is not a chargeable offense, and rightly so in my opinion.

<rsbm> Don't confuse how they deal with marijuana in the US vs. in Canada. In the US sentences are incredibly harsh, e.g., 15 years to life mandatory minimum for 4 oz (112 g) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_sentencing

Canada is nothing like that. ME the Prince of Pot was repeatedly fined for his marijuana seed sales but never jailed in Canada. The US however extradited him to face 5 years in a federal prison for the same acts. There is a huge difference between having to pay a few thousand in fines over a couple decades in Canada vs. losing 5 years of your freedom in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Emery

Anyone in prison in Canada for marijuana crimes would have to be dealing in huge quantities.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Did the reporter claim that DM was passing letters to people on his do not contact list?

Before she was arrested, Dellen Millard consistently tried to send Noudga messages through the people who visited him in jail despite the fact that she was on a list of people with whom he was ordered to have no contact.

Apparently DM tried, but no word on whether it worked out for him. Other people may not have wanted to be on the hook for a breach http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/christina-noudga

That's true, MS could have been getting not only his GF to agree to lie for him, but he could have been getting her to contact others on his Do Not contact list to get a whole group of people to agree to falsify their testimony for him. One breach like that can turn a whole case around and get countless people to be false witnesses, if it means just telling a couple of little lies to save a friend from a life sentence. Who know what secret agreements have been made MS's behalf at this point.

I find it odd that even though a reporter claims that DM was also passing letters secretly, that no charges have brought on him for it, when they have been added to MS's charges. I really wonder why that would be, that one would be charged but not the other. Maybe someone had their information wrong? Or perhaps it was obtained in a way that is unverifiable to LE? It's another mystery to me.

That also makes me wonder how LE found out that MS was breaching his conditions, did one of his friends or maybe his GF come forward with the proof? Did any reporters see those letters too?

All my opinion only.

Breach charges for MS but not DM could mean DM tried, he failed, as CN gave him the cold shoulder.

Alternatively maybe as well as DM sending messages CN was too, and that led to an accessory after the fact to murder charge once it was clear CN was complicit.

Writing in 2013, while he&#8217;s still being actively investigated for the murders of Babcock and his father, he&#8217;s surprised to learn that his correspondence and visits are monitored by prison officials. After one of his letters leaks on the internet, he agrees to route his mail back and forth via his lawyer.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

I really doubt he would be so brazen as to send CN letters from jail. i gather any tidbit he tried to pass on was not in written form.

Certainly LE did not stop investigating the case further after the arrest of MS. Surely just as DM and MS were surveilled from jail, LE had a watch on all of DM's associates

Police are looking into a small, &#8220;close-knit group of friends&#8221; that hung around together.

DM, charged with first-degree murder, was part of that group.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

 

[SnooperDuper]

Another thing is after CN's bail hearing, the news outlets called her DM's ex, former, etc. gf. I thought her strategy might be to shut everyone (LE, DM) etc. out and hope LE forgets the whole thing.

 

[Tamarind]

<rsbm> Don't confuse how they deal with marijuana in the US vs. in Canada. In the US sentences are incredibly harsh, e.g., 15 years to life mandatory minimum for 4 oz (112 g) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_sentencing

Anyone in prison in Canada for marijuana crimes would have to be dealing in huge quantities.

We are in Canada at least that's where the Bosma case is.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...na-legal-states-medical-recreational/4343199/
This link identifies states that have legalized marijuana (USA) FWIW

What amounts are you suggesting would be enough to incarcerate some in Canada? Also what about repeat offenders who have been ordered not to use drugs?

Most inmates are not in Canadian jails for murder. Grow ops even small amounts for personal use, can have someone in jail for 6 months.

 

[Tamarind]

That's true, MS could have been getting not only his GF to agree to lie for him, but he could have been getting her to contact others on his Do Not contact list to get a whole group of people to agree to falsify their testimony for him. One breach like that can turn a whole case around and get countless people to be false witnesses, if it means just telling a couple of little lies to save a friend from a life sentence. Who know what secret agreements have been made MS's behalf at this point.

I find it odd that even though a reporter claims that DM was also passing letters secretly, that no charges have brought on him for it, when they have been added to MS's charges. I really wonder why that would be, that one would be charged but not the other. Maybe someone had their information wrong? Or perhaps it was obtained in a way that is unverifiable to LE? It's another mystery to me.

That also makes me wonder how LE found out that MS was breaching his conditions, did one of his friends or maybe his GF come forward with the proof? Did any reporters see those letters too?

All my opinion only.

Murder cases are obviously very different balls of wax from minor marijuana offenses. These minor offenses also carry conditions of non association very often. That is what I was referring to.
I find such conditions for minor offenses to be unnecessary and I feel they are put in place because there is a high likelihood that the person will breach. Police actually scout and go looking for such breaches which ensure that the person has an even less chance of winning their case. JMO
It goes without saying that in murder cases, such conditions prevent the concocting of alibis.

 

[matou]

Did the reporter claim that DM was passing letters to people on his do not contact list?

Yeah! When did that happen?

ETA: I see snooper's reply now and media source. Thank you!

 

[SnooperDuper]

We are in Canada at least that's where the Bosma case is.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...na-legal-states-medical-recreational/4343199/
This link identifies states that have legalized marijuana (USA) FWIW

What amounts are you suggesting would be enough to incarcerate some in Canada? Also what about repeat offenders who have been ordered not to use drugs?

Most inmates are not in Canadian jails for murder. Grow ops even small amounts for personal use, can have someone in jail for 6 months.

You can't order a person not to use drugs (i.e., involuntarily send them to rehab) in Canada (though you can send them to jail where the drug supply is greatly diminished) vs. you can legally order people to rehab in the US. You're sort of thinking of the wrong country again.

There is no way small amounts/personal possession will send you to jail for 6 months in Canada, absolutely no way...usually in this case LE simply decline to charge you at all. Are you thinking USA?

In Canada you need to have a significant grow op of dozens of plants or pounds or marijuana to ever hope to see a jail cell...it is really really hard to be sent to jail for any kind of marijuana offense unless you are in the major leagues of wholesale distribution.

 

[swedie]

That's true, MS could have been getting not only his GF to agree to lie for him, but he could have been getting her to contact others on his Do Not contact list to get a whole group of people to agree to falsify their testimony for him. One breach like that can turn a whole case around and get countless people to be false witnesses, if it means just telling a couple of little lies to save a friend from a life sentence. Who know what secret agreements have been made MS's behalf at this point.

I find it odd that even though a reporter claims that DM was also passing letters secretly, that no charges have brought on him for it, when they have been added to MS's charges. I really wonder why that would be, that one would be charged but not the other. Maybe someone had their information wrong? Or perhaps it was obtained in a way that is unverifiable to LE? It's another mystery to me.

That also makes me wonder how LE found out that MS was breaching his conditions, did one of his friends or maybe his GF come forward with the proof? Did any reporters see those letters too?

All my opinion only.

Or could it be MS's murder charges look pretty weak but his involvement in other areas are not so weak. The Crown wants to keep him in jail until trial, thus the additional charge? This charge stems back to when CN was arrested and the additional charge of LB's murder was laid against MS. Was MS trying to reach out to someone who could prove an alibi for him for the date LB was murdered? Perhaps his family has turned their backs on him and he felt the only person he could reach out to was his girlfriend?

In DM's case, LE have solid evidence of the three murders against him, they don't feel the need to charge him. Perhaps he was charged, we just didn't get that memo Or as Snooper said, maybe his attempt failed? Or did CN turn DM's correspondence into LE? Former girlfriend. :thinking: MOO.

the alleged breach of recognizance happened between April 10 and July 31 of last year

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5262706-co-accused-in-bosma-murder-case-faces-new-charge/

April 10, 2014
Dellen Millard, 28, the heir to an aviation dynasty who has been charged with killing Tim Bosma, an Ancaster man who was trying to sell his truck online, is now charged with the first-degree murder of both his former girlfriend, Laura Babcock, and his own father, Wayne Millard.
By some definitions, the cases, drawn together, could make Millard the country’s newest alleged serial killer.
Two other suspects — Mark Smich, co-accused in Bosma’s death, and Millard’s once-girlfriend, Christina Noudga — have now been dragged further under a microscope with additional charges

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...osma_killing_charged_with_2_more_murders.html

 

[Tamarind]

You can't order a person not to use drugs (i.e., involuntarily send them to rehab) in Canada (though you can send them to jail where the drug supply is greatly diminished) vs. you can legally order people to rehab in the US. You're sort of thinking of the wrong country again.

There is no way small amounts/personal possession will send you to jail for 6 months in Canada, absolutely no way...usually in this case LE simply decline to charge you at all. Are you thinking USA?




In Canada you need to have a significant grow op of dozens of plants or pounds or marijuana to ever hope to see a jail cell...it is really really hard to be sent to jail for any kind of marijuana offense unless you are in the major leagues of wholesale distribution.

Yes you can have a bail order to not ingest any drugs.

Tell Stephen Harper that you can have a grow op without going to jail. I believe it was he who was the instigator.

I am definitely referring to Canada

 

[SnooperDuper]

Yes you can have a bail order to not ingest any drugs.

Tell Stephen Harper that you can have a grow op without going to jail. I believe it was he who was the instigator.

I am definitely referring to Canada

Only about one of every six people convicted in marijuana grow-op cases goes to jail, says a newly released Justice Department study.

Among many findings, researchers determined that only a handful of the 415 people convicted in the grow-op cases were actually sent to jail.

"For those convicted of production in relation to a grow operation, fines were the most common sentence (39 per cent), followed by conditional sentences (35 per cent) and incarceration (16 per cent)," said the study, completed March 30 this year.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/few-pot-growers-go-to-jail-but-that-could-change-1.1021620

KITCHENER, Ont. -- The two kingpins in a massive indoor grow-op that produced more than 16,000 pot plants have been punished with $100 fines and a nightly curfew -- but no jail time.

Superior Court Justice Stephen Glithero gave the Toronto-area men a form of house arrest for their part in an operation that was so big dump trucks had to be used to haul the pot away when the bust went down in June 2011.

http://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/209254921.html

etc.

 

[Juballee]

Apparently DM tried, but no word on whether it worked out for him. Other people may not have wanted to be on the hook for a breach http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/christina-noudga



Breach charges for MS but not DM could mean DM tried, he failed, as CN gave him the cold shoulder.

Alternatively maybe as well as DM sending messages CN was too, and that led to an accessory after the fact to murder charge once it was clear CN was complicit.



http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

I really doubt he would be so brazen as to send CN letters from jail. i gather any tidbit he tried to pass on was not in written form.

Certainly LE did not stop investigating the case further after the arrest of MS. Surely just as DM and MS were surveilled from jail, LE had a watch on all of DM's associates



http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/tim-bosmas-murder-may-have-been-thrill-kill-source

From what I know, for a breach charge, proof of an attempt is all that is needed, it doesn't matter if the attempt was successful or not for that charge to apply.

I doubt that CN's accessory charge could stem from communicating with DM when he was in jail, since the dates of the charges are from when he was still a free man, before his arrest, from what I remember.

It's funny that some don't think that he'd be so brazen as to write a letter from jail, yet the same people regularly push the idea of him being brazen enough to kill unprovoked. That is an odd condradiction to me, personally.

So that would also mean to me that if DM might not be brazen enough to risk a breach charge, but MS was, perhaps MS is the brazen one of the two, the one more likely to be brazen enough to kill unprovoked, following that pattern of logic, in my opinion only.

When it came to seeking thrills, DM had the means to be an adrenaline junkie. He had fast cars and trucks, jet skis, and big boy toys, airplanes and helicopter, the means to travel and do things like skydiving or sailing to relieve his adrenaline cravings, but what means did MS have to express his need for a thrill? Drugs and a spray can?

All of this is my opinion only.

 

[matou]

Did DM do drugs?

 

[Tamarind]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/few-pot-growers-go-to-jail-but-that-could-change-1.1021620



http://www.mapleridgenews.com/news/209254921.html

etc.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/can...per-crime-bill-gives-more-jail-160536154.html

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/03/canada_passes_harsh_mandatory_sentences_for_mariju.php

 

[swedie]

BTW I find it curious why numerous articles focus on the fact DM could be Canada's newest serial killer. There is even a whole article (The Star) written in honour of DM. None have stress this point in regards to MS. :waitasec: :thinking:

Millard, a handsome and wealthy aviation heir, is now implicated by police in three first-degree murders &#8212; allegations that could define him as a serial killer. His pal, Mark Smich, has been implicated in two.

http://m.bramptonguardian.com/news-...police-believe-babcock-s-body-was-incinerated

A joint project of police, which includes the OPP, Toronto and Hamilton Police, now allege that Millard, 28, is in fact a serial killer &#8212; accused of three separate murders over a 10-month period.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/04/1...-for-closure-as-alleged-dellen-millard-victim

The gravity of this announcement is that if he is convicted of all three murders, Dellen Millard would be considered a serial killer, as it fits the definition of more than two murders in a series over a period of time.

http://www.chch.com/alleged-bosma-killers-facing-new-charges/

If Dellen Millard, the man charged with murder in three separate deaths across Southwestern Ontario, were convicted of all three, would it be true a serial killer had been at work?
Definitions vary, but serial murder usually refers to two or more murders at different places and times with a cooling-off period in between, rather than several unrelated murders, or a killing spree or mass murder.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...es_dont_necessarily_mean_a_serial_killer.html

The underlined and blue section of this article below made me :giggle:. "Trying to turn him into one eh?! I suspect DM did that all on his own. MOO.

Aviation heir accused of murdering and burning married father last year now suspected as SERIAL KILLER after police link him to slayings of his own father and girlfriend

Millard&#8217;s lawyer, Deepak Paradkar, said Thursday that his client is pleading guilty to the charges, suggesting that police are trying to turn the 28-year-old aviator into a serial killer by taking advantage of the notoriety of the Bosma murder.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...slayings-father-girlfriend.html#ixzz3acsokhyP
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

A couple of ongoing investigations in Ontario targeting aviation dynasty heir Dellen Millard might just be pointing to the young man as Canada's latest serial killer.
http://www.examiner.com/article/dellen-millard-canada-s-latest-serial-killer

 

[Tamarind]

Did DM do drugs?

We have no idea. I have never read anything that says he himself used drugs. MOO

Maybe someone else has found evidence to the contrary, not the 'drug fueled party' media hype type of evidence, but actual evidence. ? TIA