Related Issues and Food for Thought

[hopingforjustice]

There is a huge difference between asking a stranger for a quasi-legal substance that some people don't even consider a drug, and asking around for cocaine.



It is interesting LB was not hassling MS for drugs - isn't he the guy with the connection? Ah, but DM is the guy who has the money, an some drugs are very expensive and moreish, and funding someone's drug habit is a bottomless pit. To LB, DM was the right person to hit up because he had access and money.

Perhaps she went to him for more "if" he was the one who introduced her to the drugs. Whether it be in a party atmosphere or what not. I have a hard time imagining that a girl that graduated a tough course load in University would have been the way she was described as being in the end all through school. I know the focus and concentration involved that my own daughter went thru in University and just don't see it fitting. I think it was introduced to her after and well into her friendship with DM. No links..Just my own opinion

 

[hopingforjustice]

I think I read that SL sent texts to DM. I also recall that DM thought that whatever was sent in text didn't seem to make much sense so he asked if SL wanted to meet for a coffee. He said for a coffee not lunch, so I am thinking he didnt plan on staying long. Also I get the feeling that SL isn't a fan of DM, I think when some friend told him that DM and LB were fooling around ( unproven), he wasn't impressed, there doesn't appear to me to be any liking of DM by SL and I think the reason could be that he had been told about the alleged fooling around. We don't know how late SL really was, some people often have poor concept of time. Maybe DM agreed to meet up because he didnt understand the texts too well, maybe SL was vague. So DM shows up and is asked questions about phone calls and he doesn't recall any real conversation with LB recently. SL then shows him a phone bill and DM says he didnt speak to her any more than once and she was asking for drugs and a place to stay. Maybe SL thought DM was in this alleged relationship with LB and that DM was holding out on him, even though SL was only going on what a friend had said. Maybe DM didn't like an accusatory tone and once he had answered SL's questions felt that he didnt have much else to say. I have a feeling they were never buddies.

I am still trying to see what is right in front of our faces as DM says. There is so much that could be relevant... so it's a matter of staying focused and not being confused by anything that doesn't make sense to me. JMO HTH

BBM

I totally agree with this comment but not entirely in your logic. True that perhaps SL probably had some feelings of jealousy at some point early on but by the time of this meeting it had become a very serious concern for her whereabouts and her well being and that would have way over trumped any feelings of jealousy. SL and DM were not strangers (birthday photo). There should have been a mutual concern for a "missing" friend and not a brushed off meeting regardless of their feelings for each other. But that is JMO

 

[Arnie M]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure
(From the article) (Written by Dellen)

.............................................
..… but what I will say, is that “the facts” they keep repeating, don’t match the disclosure I am given. I thought by now some, even one, of those so called ‘investigative’ journalists would have picked up on some of discrepancies in what police are telling them. I thought the public might have noticed some of the things that are out of place in the news articles. I’ve never been through something like this. I’m relying on the advice of my lawyer, and several other lawyers too, all agree, stay quiet. CBS wants to do a lengthy interview. Right now, I feel like doing it. And not just sticking to my personal background; I feel like getting right into the case, and picking it all apart. For heaven’s sake, it’s right in front of everyone’s faces, and no one seems to be able to figure it all out!? This silence is very frustrating.
...................................


I have thought long and hard what it is that DM thinks should be "so obvious" to us ... and quite frankly I cannot find anything "obvious"

Except for the possibility that it "could be obvious" that MS is "the bad guy" and DM is just the unfortunate accomplice who ended up getting in too deep and too entangled.

It could be possible that it is MS who killed LB & TB and maybe even WM too.

Those last phone calls by LB to the DM number .... keep in mind MS was often living there too. Maybe it was him who took her calls.

Obviously DM is in to this up to his eyeballs , but from the start I said (to AnnB) that I think MS is the leader , and DM the follower.

She disagreed with me , she was thinking of typical "leadership qualities" .... whereas I was thinking of leadership in evil.

.

 

[SnooperDuper]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure
(From the article) (Written by Dellen)

.............................................
..… but what I will say, is that “the facts” they keep repeating, don’t match the disclosure I am given. I thought by now some, even one, of those so called ‘investigative’ journalists would have picked up on some of discrepancies in what police are telling them. I thought the public might have noticed some of the things that are out of place in the news articles. I’ve never been through something like this. I’m relying on the advice of my lawyer, and several other lawyers too, all agree, stay quiet. CBS wants to do a lengthy interview. Right now, I feel like doing it. And not just sticking to my personal background; I feel like getting right into the case, and picking it all apart. For heaven’s sake, it’s right in front of everyone’s faces, and no one seems to be able to figure it all out!? This silence is very frustrating.
...................................


I have thought long and hard what it is that DM thinks should be "so obvious" to us ... and quite frankly I cannot find anything "obvious"

Except for the possibility that it "could be obvious" that MS is "the bad guy" and DM is just the unfortunate accomplice who ended up getting in too deep and too entangled.

It could be possible that it is MS who killed LB & TB and maybe even WM too.

Those last phone calls by LB to the DM number .... keep in mind MS was often living there too. Maybe it was him who took her calls.

Obviously DM is in to this up to his eyeballs , but from the start I said (to AnnB) that I think MS is the leader , and DM the follower.

She disagreed with me , she was thinking of typical "leadership qualities" .... whereas I was thinking of leadership in evil.

.

At the start of this case, I thought no doubt this is an act of cocaine-powered "supermen".

How grandiose and obscene: stealing a man and his truck, and discarding the man. At the same time it seemed to me that things weren't very well thought out, because of everything around TB's phone (they didn't disable it right away, which seems like a drug-addled lapse to me.)

No one has come out and said DM had a habit himself so I have to consider the very frightening alternative that DM and MS had clear minds when they did this.

MS obviously has a disrespect for the law and gruesome interests (the Ghozted video) whereas DM has the daring: there is some kind of synergy between the two that allowed them to empower each other to commit this crime, IMO.

As for who is the "leader", ponder this:

What if on May 10, 2013, it was MS that was being trailed by LE and not DM?

What if on May 22, 2013 it was DM arrested instead of MS? I.e., what if they were identified and arrested in reverse order?

If LE spent the first week going after MS, they would not have access to the farm at that time. LE would still be looking for TB and would be unable to charge MS with the only charge laid at the time, first degree murder, because LE would still not know what happened to TB.

DM OTOH would have an additional two weeks to clean up the mess.

Incidentally I doubt MS and DM were in close contact between the date of the crime and DM's arrest. MS might have never known that CN had been dragged in to the mess until she was arrested and it was revealed much later that by May 9, 2013, she knew enough about the crime to be charged as an accessory. This might have come as a huge surprise to MS, because as far as MS knew, he and DM had a lid on things.

Suddenly learning that your partner in crime has revealed all to his gf, a year after it happened - that would be a shocker.

 

[swedie]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure
(From the article) (Written by Dellen)

.............................................
..… but what I will say, is that “the facts” they keep repeating, don’t match the disclosure I am given. I thought by now some, even one, of those so called ‘investigative’ journalists would have picked up on some of discrepancies in what police are telling them. I thought the public might have noticed some of the things that are out of place in the news articles. I’ve never been through something like this. I’m relying on the advice of my lawyer, and several other lawyers too, all agree, stay quiet. CBS wants to do a lengthy interview. Right now, I feel like doing it. And not just sticking to my personal background; I feel like getting right into the case, and picking it all apart. For heaven’s sake, it’s right in front of everyone’s faces, and no one seems to be able to figure it all out!? This silence is very frustrating.
...................................


I have thought long and hard what it is that DM thinks should be "so obvious" to us ... and quite frankly I cannot find anything "obvious"

Except for the possibility that it "could be obvious" that MS is "the bad guy" and DM is just the unfortunate accomplice who ended up getting in too deep and too entangled.

It could be possible that it is MS who killed LB & TB and maybe even WM too.

Those last phone calls by LB to the DM number .... keep in mind MS was often living there too. Maybe it was him who took her calls.

Obviously DM is in to this up to his eyeballs , but from the start I said (to AnnB) that I think MS is the leader , and DM the follower.

She disagreed with me , she was thinking of typical "leadership qualities" .... whereas I was thinking of leadership in evil.

.

I just don't see DM being that dumb of a follower and allowing everything to happen on his property with his belongings, and to top it off, also drag his mother into this mess.

There was obviously some planning involved: the purchase of the gun and then the holster, the purchase of the incinerator, and the fact it was order and put on MA's books, the illegal activity going on inside DM's hangar, having the burner phone linked to his name, the use of his Yukon and trailer, DM being the test driver of both Dodge Rams while he was coincidentally the owner of a Dodge Ram, who might I added attended the Baja races without MS, then there is the fact he has been charged with LB's murder and MS hasn't. Likely more tell tale signs also, but I'll just go with those for now.

This isn't the leading of MS. DM may be dumb, but I highly doubt he would be that dumb to allow all of the evidence to point a direct finger at himself kwim. MS seems to me to be the kind of bimbo who just went along with whatever he was asked to do. If DM had offered him money or something gainful to help him out, he would be the type to jump at the offer. Apparently MS had many friends and was well liked and would do a lot of good things for people. DM saw this in MS and took total advantage of him IMO. Speaking of the Ghozted video, he was offered the role by a good friend. Wonder if he got paid for doing it or was just happy to have that opportunity?

 

[Sillybilly]

I don't believe DM did lie. I believe he was saying that he didnt speak to her on numerous calls. It would appear that the 1 minute calls could well have been unanswered calls, so DM was telling the truth IMO. From those phone bills I do not recall any lengthy call taking place.

<rsbm>

FWIW, there was a 21 min phone call between DM and LB on July 1 approx. 7:00 pm. There are also numerous incoming calls that are redacted, so we don't know who those numbers belong to or if any of those calls were between DM and LB.

 

[Sillybilly]

... then there is the fact he has been charged with LB's murder and MS hasn't.

<rsbm>

Swedie, you have forgotten ... both DM and MS have been charged with LB's murder.

 

[Arnie M]

I just don't see DM being that dumb of a follower and allowing everything to happen on his property with his belongings, and to top it off, also drag his mother into this mess.

There was obviously some planning involved: the purchase of the gun and then the holster, the purchase of the incinerator, and the fact it was order and put on MA's books, the illegal activity going on inside DM's hangar, having the burner phone linked to his name, the use of his Yukon and trailer, DM being the test driver of both Dodge Rams while he was coincidentally the owner of a Dodge Ram, who might I added attended the Baja races without MS, then there is the fact he has been charged with LB's murder and MS hasn't. Likely more tell tale signs also, but I'll just go with those for now.

This isn't the leading of MS. DM may be dumb, but I highly doubt he would be that dumb to allow all of the evidence to point a direct finger at himself kwim. MS seems to me to be the kind of bimbo who just went along with whatever he was asked to do. If DM had offered him money or something gainful to help him out, he would be the type to jump at the offer. Apparently MS had many friends and was well liked and would do a lot of good things for people. DM saw this in MS and took total advantage of him IMO. Speaking of the Ghozted video, he was offered the role by a good friend. Wonder if he got paid for doing it or was just happy to have that opportunity?

I wasn't suggesting DM was "dumb" .... more like a willing participant in something he would not have done on his own , but with prompting and suggestions from someone else (MS for example) he was steered down that road

Partners in crime often have one instigator and one willing participant and they feed off each other

Lets say MS needed money and hatched a plan to test drive and steal a truck .... He did not have a drivers license , nor a vehicle to get there .... so enlist DM who would get his own thrill by helping him .

I could never picture DM on his own , and by himself , picking up TB , killing him and driving off with the truck. But put MS in the mix and I could see it happen. For all we know the incinerator could have been an MS idea , and DM was the enabler who had the wherewithal to get one.

I liken it to a playground situation where Bully-Boy hands a snake to Other-Boy and tells him to put it down Julie's shirt.

Bully-Boy justifies his innocence because Other-Boy did the deed .... and Other-Boy justifies his innocence because it was not his idea

They forgot to consider a teacher was watching and finds them both equally guilty

Most criminals are "dumb" in the sense they never think they will get caught. That is why they leave a trail of evidence implicating themselves .

Maybe DM always had those tendencies in his closet .... but he needed someone to hand him a snake.

Hope that makes sense

.

 

[redheart]

One big problem with the theory that MS was the leader/instigator is that WM was murdered and only his son was charged, not MS. (And I think it highly unlikely that MS was the leader for many more reasons, but respect your opinion Arnie and enjoy reading your well thought out posts.)

 

[Arnie M]

One big problem with the theory that MS was the leader/instigator is that WM was murdered and only his son was charged, not MS. (And I think it highly unlikely that MS was the leader for many more reasons, but respect your opinion Arnie and enjoy reading your well thought out posts.)

Thanks redheart , and I actually agree with you for the most part.

I have gone somewhat adrift trying to determine what (according to DM) should be so "obvious to everybody" about this case

Either DM wants us to realize he was not as "wealthy" as the media made out

Or he thinks we should obviously see it is MS who is the bad guy , and not him.

.

 

[Arnie M]

.

Just a side note and a bit off topic. I feel I have made a lot of friends here on Websleuths (thank you) . I was drawn here mainly because of the aviation slant to this story , and the fact I knew of DM since he flew a helicopter at age 14. Helicopter pilots are a small fraternity , and we prefer to be associated with saving lives , not taking lives.

We like to be thought of as friends in high places
Even as high as Mount Everest
Please enjoy these photos from The Top of The World
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/483614-top-world-photos-nepal.html
Anyone wanting to see the Nepal Earthquake damage , go to the last page and work backwards

.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thanks redheart , and I actually agree with you for the most part.

I have gone somewhat adrift trying to determine what (according to DM) should be so "obvious to everybody" about this case

Either DM wants us to realize he was not as "wealthy" as the media made out

Or he thinks we should obviously see it is MS who is the bad guy , and not him.

.

bbm

...... because the evidence is only pointing in DM's direction. Maybe, therefore DM thinks the journalists must have seen this as "obvious".

 

[Tamarind]

Nothing confusing here. HTH and MOO.

Despite being only an acquaintance of the man, Mr. Lerner contacted Mr. Millard to inquire about the string of phone calls. He says Mr. Millard refused to discuss the matter over text messages, so the two met for coffee.

I think DM actually said something about the texts not making sense or similar. It was DM who suggesting meeting. Doesn't sound like he was trying to avoid anything to me.

“First he denied it, he said ‘There couldn’t have been eight calls,’” Mr. Lerner said. “But I had the records in my bag.”

Like I said 1 minute calls are usually unanswered calls, that would be why DM said there couldn't have been eight calls. She may have made eight calls but he didnt receive eight calls. Regardless of what the records show, DM did not answer eight calls from LB if calls are showing as 1 minute calls.

After seeing the records, Mr. Millard told him “she was calling looking for drugs and a place to stay.” He told Mr. Lerner that he did not oblige either request.

After being accused of eight calls that he knew he didnt receive he may have questioned SL's intention. By the time the phone bill was received I would guesstimate that SL did not speak to DM for at least 6 weeks after the call about drugs occurred. I doubt the call for drugs was a clear memory. Some days I can't recall a small call from a week ago. :blushing:

“When we saw the phone records, that’s when I got suspicious, I suppose,” he said.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...spect-dellen-millard-before-her-disappearance

Did he also get suspicious about all the other people LB had called or just DM???
This was a year before the Bosma event, so it's not like he had that to base his suspicions on. :waitasec: JMO

 

[Tamarind]

Oh no, LE know LB is dead. They just won't and cannot release any details other than she likely met the same fate as TB. They are holding the evidence close to their chests to preserve it for trial (as it states in the article I posted above). If one removes all the believes, alleges, you get the truth. Again journalists have to use those words because the perps have not had their fair trial yet. As hard as it is to accept the truth, eventually it's going to have to happen. The truths are right under our noses.

The truth is not out there yet, so its not possible or even wise to accept anything. IMO. LB is missing and until proven dead she is missing. If I were on a jury this fact would be something that I based my decision on. Saying that by removing all believes, alleges etc reveals the truth, is not an accurate statement IMO. If everything LE alleged and believed was fact, we would not have trials. and many people like Morin et al would never have been vindicated. IMO.

How horrific for her parents and loved ones not to receive any of her remains because DM reduced her to ashes and likely disposed of them somewhere where LE have not been able to find them. I wonder if once DM is convicted and knows his goose is cooked, if he will give LB's parents a tiny bit of sympathy and reveal where he dumped or buried what was left of LB. Could you only imagine if this happened to someone you loved dearly, not being able to have that wee bit of closure? Her parents held out hope for so long but certainly the reality has set in now and they know their beautiful, bubbly, sweetheart, daughter will not be coming home to them ever again. May she rest in eternal peace and may the evil, twisted, murderer who did this to her and her loved ones, rot in eternal he!! MOO.

I agree her parents must be going through hell but as yet the details are not available, to be demanding that an accused ( not convicted) person be saying where the body ( as yet unfound / unproven to be deceased) is buried or hidden is rather premature and if the person is found innocent is even libelous IMO.

Homicide detectives believe Dellen Millard bought a gun illegally and used it to murder his father. And that he also murdered Laura Babcock and incinerated her body &#8212; just as he allegedly did with Tim Bosma.

Police have said they believe Bosma was killed the night he was abducted and his body burned in an animal incinerator at a farm owned by Millard in Ayr, near Kitchener.


Thinking deeper into what DM was referring to in the bold and underlined part, he must be referring to the fact he is a psychopath and no one has titled him as such in any newspaper articles. MOO.

I&#8217;m relying on the advice of my lawyer, and several other lawyers too, all agree, stay quiet. CBS wants to do a lengthy interview. Right now, I feel like doing it. And not just sticking to my personal background; I feel like getting right into the case, and picking it all apart. For heaven&#8217;s sake, it&#8217;s right in front of everyone&#8217;s faces, and no one seems to be able to figure it all out!?This silence is very frustrating.

I think there have been many attempts to brand him a psychopath without much success. IMO.

I hope he does have the the opportunity to reveal all, I really do.

 

[Juballee]

If LE have actual, factual evidence to prove that Laura is really dead, it is completely irresponsible, immoral and cruel not to share what that evidence is with Laura's family, I think. Can you imagine if Sharlene had been treated the same way, and was still left in the dark? Just because Laura's family has shunned the spotlight doesn't give them any less right to know the truth.

SB didn't have to wait until the trial to find out what LE know of Tim's demise, why should LB's family be treated any differently? I can't believe that LE would be so heartless, therefore I must assume that they have nothing solid to tell them. It's not like no one is privy to facts before trial, it's just that those who are privy are subject to the publication ban.

I think that LE have a duty to keep LB's family updated on any facts relating to their daughter's disappearance, and if LE had facts to share, the family wouldn't claim to still be in the dark. I doubt that the family is lying when they say that they don't know for certain that she is dead still.

This is all my opinion only.

 

[Kamille]

Thanks redheart , and I actually agree with you for the most part.

I have gone somewhat adrift trying to determine what (according to DM) should be so "obvious to everybody" about this case

Either DM wants us to realize he was not as "wealthy" as the media made out

Or he thinks we should obviously see it is MS who is the bad guy , and not him.

.

Or he has his fabricated story ready to go and he's itching to tell it to people whom he feels he can charm into believing his version of events.

He had, and continues to have the opportunity to tell this story to a task force of investigators who can verify his story, exonerate and release him at any time. But he chooses to wait for a jury of 12 (and not just a judge following the letter of the law) to tell his story to. I have a good idea of why that might be.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

If LE have actual, factual evidence to prove that Laura is really dead, it is completely irresponsible, immoral and cruel not to share what that evidence is with Laura's family, I think. Can you imagine if Sharlene had been treated the same way, and was still left in the dark? Just because Laura's family has shunned the spotlight doesn't give them any less right to know the truth.

SB didn't have to wait until the trial to find out what LE know of Tim's demise, why should LB's family be treated any differently? I can't believe that LE would be so heartless, therefore I must assume that they have nothing solid to tell them. It's not like no one is privy to facts before trial, it's just that those who are privy are subject to the publication ban.

I think that LE have a duty to keep LB's family updated on any facts relating to their daughter's disappearance, and if LE had facts to share, the family wouldn't claim to still be in the dark. I doubt that the family is lying when they say that they don't know for certain that she is dead still.

This is all my opinion only.

LE don't need actual, factual direct evidence to lay a murder charge in a no body case. And if they don't have this type of evidence, there is nothing concrete they can offer up to the family. No doubt that will be primarily a circumstantial case and they've told the family this. Here's a good article explaining those types of cases.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/how-do-you-prove-murder-without-a-body/article19610440/

LB's family likely chooses to hang on to some hope that LE are wrong and that she will be returning home alive and well one day. Everyone deals with things in their own way IMO. Not sure even a conviction will make them give up on that hope.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I wasn't suggesting DM was "dumb" .... more like a willing participant in something he would not have done on his own , but with prompting and suggestions from someone else (MS for example) he was steered down that road

Partners in crime often have one instigator and one willing participant and they feed off each other

Lets say MS needed money and hatched a plan to test drive and steal a truck .... He did not have a drivers license , nor a vehicle to get there .... so enlist DM who would get his own thrill by helping him .

I think the truck was a side benefit but the main purpose was to have a thrilling adventure (and the truck would be a bonus)

If they were only after a truck I am sure they could have planned things to go much tighter, and could have found a much lower risk way to get one.

I could never picture DM on his own , and by himself , picking up TB , killing him and driving off with the truck. But put MS in the mix and I could see it happen. For all we know the incinerator could have been an MS idea , and DM was the enabler who had the wherewithal to get one.

I liken it to a playground situation where Bully-Boy hands a snake to Other-Boy and tells him to put it down Julie's shirt.

Bully-Boy justifies his innocence because Other-Boy did the deed .... and Other-Boy justifies his innocence because it was not his idea

They forgot to consider a teacher was watching and finds them both equally guilty

Most criminals are "dumb" in the sense they never think they will get caught. That is why they leave a trail of evidence implicating themselves .

Maybe DM always had those tendencies in his closet .... but he needed someone to hand him a snake.

Hope that makes sense

.

I think once the trial begins and both personalities are on display, we will see that sure, there was a synergy between them but they were both fundamentally twisted individuals inside.

 

[Tamarind]

Or he has his fabricated story ready to go and he's itching to tell it to people whom he feels he can charm into believing his version of events.

He had, and continues to have the opportunity to tell this story to a task force of investigators who can verify his story, exonerate and release him at any time. But he chooses to wait for a jury of 12 (and not just a judge following the letter of the law) to tell his story to. I have a good idea of why that might be.

MOO

It has been mentioned several times that DM does not now have the opportunity to do anything other than wait this out. Even if people tell police the truth, there is NO guarantee that they will be believed and thus released. There are many examples of this fact. His lawyer has no doubt advised him to stay silent as any good lawyer would do. To say that he could exonerate himself by speaking is untrue, the system does not work that way.

 

[Kamille]

.

Just a side note and a bit off topic. I feel I have made a lot of friends here on Websleuths (thank you) . I was drawn here mainly because of the aviation slant to this story , and the fact I knew of DM since he flew a helicopter at age 14. Helicopter pilots are a small fraternity , and we prefer to be associated with saving lives , not taking lives.

We like to be thought of as friends in high places
Even as high as Mount Everest
Please enjoy these photos from The Top of The World
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/483614-top-world-photos-nepal.html
Anyone wanting to see the Nepal Earthquake damage , go to the last page and work backwards

.

Fascinating photos Arnie. Thanks so much for sharing. So nice to see those in the aviation community pulling together in the face of tragedy. Prayers to those helping out in Nepal. So sad that 8 have perished already in these relief efforts.

Maybe you could share these in the Nepal thread?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?278270-7-9-magnitude-earthquake-strikes-Nepal