Remains Discussion Part 4 UPDATE Caylee Tentatively ID'ed

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Themis said:
The duct tape is not likely to have been used to reduce leakage or stage a kidnapping. First, if it was to reduce leakage, there would have been more tape around the eyes, nose, pelvic and anal area. There has been no indication more tape was present than around the skull in the area of the mouth. Second, there was no kidnapping story even hinted at by KC until she had a talk with LA on the evening of July 15. Then, that story grew with additional details as earlier details were disproved. Therefore, at the time of disposal of the body, KC had not yet fabricated the kidnapping story.

So, what is the probable explanation? The computer shows there was research into chloroform, making chloroform and neck breaking prior to the big Scamthony blow-out on June 15, 2008 over financial issues, child care issues, unfit mother issues, custody issues and independent living issues. Then the blow-out. KC left in a rage. There was duct tape and a knife found in the car. Friends also said when KC previously brought Caylee to parties, Caylee would "sleep" through any amount of noise or commotion around her. She may have been chloroformed. Chloroform is a short acting agent. A constant drip is needed to keep a person unconscious during a 1 or 2 hour surgery. A wire mesh mask covered with absorbant cotton is used to keep the damp chloroform away from the mouth and nose because it causes skin irritation and redness. Some prior photos of Caylee show redness around the mouth area. It also has nasty side effects. A person becoming conscious after being chloroformed will have nausea, vomiting and severe headaches. IF KC left the house in a rage on June 15, 2008, and headed to TonE's house, but took Caylee with her because of the unfit mother, child care/responsibility and impending custody challenge by CA; and some prior boyfriend had indicated it wasn't good to have Caylee present at a sleep-over with sexual activity, then the only place KC had for Caylee was the car, or the motel where she was seen pacing. KC wanted Caylee unconscious for a longer period of time than ever before. The trunk was saturated with a substantial amount of chloroform. The duct tape and knife were in the car. KC didn't want Caylee to be heard crying out or to vomit. There is a distince possibility that KC chloroformed Caylee, slapped the duct tape around her head and mouth tight enough to preserve soft tissue underneath (unwittingly), and left her in the trunk. KC's emotions about all the attention of her parents being "all about Caylee" underscores this willingness to hurt Caylee or extreme disregard and gross negligence in her care. Caylee died, perhaps of an overdose of chloroform, or by asphixiating on her own vomit (drowning in her own vomit), which can happen to a semi-conscious patient regaining conscious. That is why medical people watch them in post-op and keep the airway clear. In this event, not only did this action meet the legal definitions of premeditation and first degree homicide, it was no accidental overdose because administering chloroform in the first instance to achieve unconsciousness of a toddler rather than provide the legal duty of parental care is by itself extreme negligence and physical child abuse.

In light of the above, I am also thinking this probably meets the legal definition of torture, depending on Florida caselaw. The chloroform and duct tape uses were torture.
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Great post, and I completely agree. This is nothing less than torture. :furious:
 
txsvicki said:
Since chloraform also plays a part in this, duct tape could have been used to tape a heavily soaked rag over the mouth and nose. I think they'll either come up with suffocation and/or chloraform death. Casey wouldn't have just had duct tape laying around her vehicle or room. She had to go get it somewhere in the home and have some sort of plan. Chloraform, duct tape, missing kids, found with no clothes in plastic bag. A kidnapping plan.
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If their was a rag over her mouth and nose.....since it's said the duct tape was on the skull......wouldn't the rag still be there, stuck to the duct tape?
 
I'm saddend, bless her heart, she did not deserve this. What great timing though. I'm glad she was found for I was losing hope that she never would have been...
 
I saw that too on CNN and was wondering when it would be posted. Thanks for the post!
 
TY mydailyopinions!

Bless little Caylee. She will forever be in our hearts ♥
 
I think the duct tape was put on her to shut her up. I am sure Caylee was very upset after the "fight" between her "birth mother" and grandma and I am sure Caylee wanted to be back home in her bed where she felt safe and secure.
 
I just don't understand the duct tape. I remember reading some time ago about an idiot that put duct tape around his dogs mouth because the dog wouldn't stop barking. Poor pup died because with the duct tape around his mouth, he couldn't pant and died from the heat.

Not that it has anything to do with this little Caylee, but made me think of it. What a mess KC has made of many, many lives.
 
Meagain said:
Right. Likely put the tape on the mouth after death to stage it for kidnapping. If she didn't tape the wrists - really really dumb.
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Not if it were wrapped around her mouth and head several times. It would be very hard for a 2 YO to peel it off, duct tape is really sticky stuff.
 
someone was saying that she was shaken-neck broken and then chloro's...
I say the other way around...she knocked her out then broke her neck.
 
I just had a disturbing thought (not unusual since this case broke): If she put her in a plastic garbage bag and sealed the bag, then the decomposition should have been slowed (as appears to be the case by comments about a 'tenative ID' and hair color etc...) then why did the head just roll out? Did KC indeed dismember her body (as I remember seeing someone else speculate such)? Did she break her neck (remember those online searches?)? Is there enough left to provide some strong, solid evidence as to exactly what happened? Sorry, just thinking out loud a bit.
 
Crabcake23 said:
I thought so too. KC's search for "neck breaking" came in handy. She probably taped her mouth, chloroformed her nose, then broke her neck.

What a sick, sick, SICK person.
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Oh god, was "neck breaking" one of the web searches? I'd forgotten that one, how awful
 
This whole thing is utterlly amazing and unreal. Just a thought, has it been said or speculated if the tape was just over the mouth or around the entire skull? IMO if it was around all the way, there was never an intention of removing it. This poor poor llittle baby. The only reasonably good thing is that she may be properly put to rest.
 
JWG said:
Bond suggested to me yesterday that the duct tape may have been placed there when Casey noticed leakage in the back of the car after 2.6 days. It makes sense that it would come from the mouth and nose first, rather than ruptures in the skin, which take longer to occur. Then she was put in a garbage bag and driven around until the 27th.

I am hoping that is the case. If we learn otherwise, I think I will have a difficult time sleeping for some time.
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And yet she was able to place the tape on her decomposing daughter's remains....who much more awful can it get then that. I'm just sick.
 
Recovering-Lurker said:
I agree that she is not smart enough to use the duct tape to keep in the leakage. I had thought all along that maybe she was smart enough to make sure Caylee was never found, etc., but now I know she is just a lazy idiot. She wanted to make it seem like a kidnapping with the duct tape. I am still not sure when she put the tape on. I wouldn't put it past her to put in on just before she dumped her. :furious:
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Boy are you telling the truth! I'm still dumbfounded that it really is going to be as simple as that....dumb luck...that's all she had and its run out.
 
I'm still one to believe until evidence proves otherwise - that the duct tape was there to prove kidnapping

What strikes me as odd - if this was a kidnapping as Casey states - wouldn't the hands an feet be also bound? If not then I think this was an afterthought

Everyone is assuming so much - we have NO evidence so far on any neck breaking - on any chloroform in the body yet, we have no evidence that the duct tape was on the mouth - nothing

So until we see autopsy results we need to remember the exaggeration of the press - if everyone believes EVERYTHING they hear from the press then it's a gullible bunch

Keep our wits sharp - deal with evidence and facts - try to figure out what happened by the evidence released - and we may be able to figure it out before trial

And since my posts about logic get ignored and everyone goes off on wild tangents, I'm sure this logic will be ignored also
 
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