Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 11/3/14 Hearing - Part 2

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krkrjx said:
I just watched the hearing from the day after the appeals court issued the stay. Someone please explain to me what I saw because I am not really believing my ears.

It sounds like Nurmi is arguing before Judge Stephens that he has no intention of delaying the proceedings and wants to continue on with his case, but she is not letting him because she will not allow the secret testimony to continue. Is that what he said or am I just too zonked to be hearing it right? Could Nurmi really be all but insisting that the judge ignore the appeals court ruling and allow him to continue the closed trial testimony (no public and no media) that they were doing before the court ruled it was unconstitutional?
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Exactly right. He even said the court seemed to be changing it's position and he didn't know what the legal basis was. :thinking:
 
krkrjx said:
I was thinking of other cases where DP was commuted to life, usually because a state abolished the DP and it was a mass-commutation (rather than overturned due to the case being examined through appeals process).

Example would be the Manson family of murderers. They all got death, which was commuted to life very soon after when the death penalty was abolished (as it turned out, temporarily). I realize that was decades ago and in another state, but that does not negate the seriousness of murderers sentenced to DEATH for their crimes being commuted to life and in the process getting regular hearings before the parole board. In the Manson group none were granted but that does not guarantee it never would happen in any case.
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I feel badly for Katiecoolady even having to hear about this Omnibus Motion as her sister's killer sits on death row. I wonder if he is part of this motion... Glad she is in Mexico.
 
I think Nurmi spends so much time on the Dark Side, that he needs a pick me up. I am going to send him one of those Edible Arrangements of fruit. They are so good and maybe it will help him feel better about things.
 
AZlawyer said:
It sounded like that, didn't it?
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Was it possible he was referring to her previous assessment that calling witnesses out of order would be 'problematic' and was trying to get the judge to not make him proceed with his case because of the stay? It seemed like she was saying, after looking at the witness list, that while there were some that needed to be called before others there were other witnesses where it wouldn't seem to be a problem if they were called now. He was trying to figure out why she'd changed her mind, maybe. I didn't watch the whole hearing but that's what I got from it. I could be morphing two different arguments.
 
If a man has to say trust me, Gogu conveyed, it's a sure sign you cannot. Trust him, that is.
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Juliet Marillier, Wildwood Dancing

IMO, by her actions--sealing records, not disclosing reasons for her rulings, closing her courtroom--JSS is saying, "Trust me." I find that I cannot. Fully trust her, that is.
 
Here are a few things from earlier this year related to DP in AZ. Some of these may be involved in leading up to what's coming up in February.

Lawsuit filed in AZ over DP for prisoner scheduled for July who was indeed put to death.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/az627.pdf

Response to claims that that execution was botched.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/AZDOCStatementJosephWood.pdf

Recent lawsuit filed in AZ by numerous media entities over secrecy of DP cocktails.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/24/arizona-challenged-abandon-secrecy-death-penalty-drugs

And for light reading, some thoughts from the Chief Justice of the 9th Circuit on the topic of the DP.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/234702556/Dkt-35-2-07-21-14-Kozinski-Dissent
 
Worry Wart said:
Thank you! So there is no reason that this trial will not continue Wednesday unless it doesn't and I won't be surprised if it does not. :gaah:
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Unless a new motion as a result of bill and sandy's video and the threats to their lives that they got in the comment section of the video.

Perhaps was set up so the only California witness is skeered to testify?

Yeah, getting into her head and would help to explain timing of its release ?
Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2
 
Boytwnmom said:
and not dependent on the facts in individual cases. There have been cases in a number of states challenging lethal injection after some of the botched executions. I believe there was an execution this past summer which the Gov ordered an investigation. Yes, I found some info about it-http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/5838. The page has a link to the Execution Log.

I wouldn't be surprised if the cases were about a challenge to lethal injection which is probably the only mode of execution currently in use. There has also been a case or cases filed challenging the secrecy around the drugs utilized. One suit was brought by attorneys for Joseph Wood who is the executed prisoner in the story below. One article indicated that AZ had suspended executions pending an investigation into Wood's execution. Maybe some AZ posters know about this.
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That is a good guess.

In one state recently, there were supposed to be 2 inmates executed and after the 1st one was botched badly, the 2nd inmate was postponed. I think the state was oklahoma. The reports were that the 1st guy just wouldnt die after they had trouble getting a line into a vein right. Apparantly not all the drugs went into the vein and he lurched and moaned and stuff. He finally died after they called a halt to the execution after trying for many minutes. They claimed he died of a heart attack however it was most likely due to the drugs that did manage to get in his system.

What is strange to me is how come they cant just come up with another drug that will put someone to sleep and then just OD them quickly. Like Propofol that killed Michael Jackson or something similar.
We hear of people ODng all the time on drugs. It seems like a simple method would be to just use Propofol and then massive amounts of Seconall or more Propofol or something would be a simple and humane method.

I think they are making this much more complex than it needs to be.
What about the drugs they use on dogs to euthanize. Seems simple enough and humane enough as well.


Some of the states are trying to make it secret which drugs they use so that the manufacturers cant know it is their drugs being used. That I can see because the previous drug used was very effective but then the manufacturer got public outcry and they had to stop shipping to US for this purpose.

So easy remedy. Keep it confidential which drugs states use. And then euthanize accordingly. Problem solved.

ETA- I cant believe I just voted for secrecy for the courts, after I have been objecting to all the secrecy in this case. LOL Oh, the irony...LOL :)
 
MeeBee said:
Was it possible he was referring to her previous assessment that calling witnesses out of order would be 'problematic' and was trying to get the judge to not make him proceed with his case because of the stay? It seemed like she was saying, after looking at the witness list, that while there were some that needed to be called before others there were other witnesses where it wouldn't seem to be a problem if they were called now. He was trying to figure out why she'd changed her mind, maybe. I didn't watch the whole hearing but that's what I got from it. I could be morphing two different arguments.
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I think Nurmi intended for his whole case to be in secret with tacit approval from JSS (or his expectation that she would continue to allow media blockage for each successive witness) as neither of them seemed to know how to proceed knowing the C of A was ruling against it. What I got most from Nurmi is he didn't want to proceed at all, certainly not before arguing his points before the C of A and JSS seemed to be in agreement with him on that as she gave him the rest of the week to prepare for it. I really don't get her, why doesn't she just tell Nurmi this is your case, you present it under the guidelines every court operates under, esp. when you've been pulled up by the short hairs by the Court of Appeals themselves and basically told to stop the games.
 
geevee said:
I think Nurmi intended for his whole case to be in secret with tacit approval from JSS (or his expectation that she would continue to allow media blockage for each successive witness) as neither of them seemed to know how to proceed knowing the C of A was ruling against it. What I got most from Nurmi is he didn't want to proceed at all, certainly not before arguing his points before the C of A and JSS seemed to be in agreement with him on that as she gave him the rest of the week to prepare for it. I really don't get her, why doesn't she just tell Nurmi this is your case, you present it under the guidelines every court operates under, esp. when you've been pulled up by the short hairs by the Court of Appeals themselves and basically told to stop the games.
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Here's the thing: on Thursday when the media was asking for a stay the judge said no because calling witnesses out of order would be too "problematic."

But now the stay is granted and Nurmi and the judge have few choices here. Juan was pressuring her to make him call witnesses out of order and Nurmi was saying you can't back on what you said before, which was that it was problematic. The judge had changed her tune, which she didn't really have a choice, but she was now saying yes, some of these witnesses need to come before others, but I now don't see a problem if you call this witness first. And I did wonder about her saying it was "problematic." Sure, there may be some witnesses that will need to lay foundation for others. But surely they can't all be like that?

That's what Nurmi's problem was. He wanted her to delay the whole thing until the ruling because she said before he shouldn't call witnesses out of order. Now she is saying he can and it pretty much looks like she said he will because she said witness testimony will continue next Wednesday. She did give him a whole week to plan his next attack lol. So we'll see what comes of it because there's no way he's going to take this quietly.

That was my assessment of the argument. He did say something about not wanting to continue with media present and she said you don't have a choice. I could be off because, again, I didn't watch the whole thing (gonna do that now).

Hope this makes sense.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
ITA!

I really hate the word 'snapped' even being used in the same sentence with Arias. She in no way snapped. She very cunningly planned this entire murder out for 6 days before carrying it out. That is not snapping. That is full blown premeditation at its worst.

While I do watch 'Snapped' on Oxygen the title to the show has always bothered me. The female murderers on the shows, whether they were one lone killer or was a co-conspirator with another female or male almost every one of them premeditated the gruesome murders they did.

By using the title 'Snapped' it is misleading and deceiving. Snapped is when someone murders in a heat of passion without any aforethought or premeditation involved.

To know what all she did to make sure this murder happened in her stealth mode of travel is not about snapping.

It is about a murderer on the road who traveled hundreds of miles with full intentions all along to murder a man who no longer wanted her in his life.
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And usually don't the people that "snap" also snap back into reality after they realize what they've done? And usually they are horrified by what they did as well. Jodi did not snap or kill in a heat of passion. She killed in a very premeditated fashion all with the intent of being a secret killer that no one would suspect.
 
It's also another case of potentially causing more appeals issues in trying to prevent them. Starting with banning cameras and streaming because it conflicts with the defendant's rights. The guilt phase live streamed so...

And the judge initially said it would be problematic to call witnesses out of order. Now she's saying that while there is a need to call some before others, there are some that can now be called out of order (character witnesses, for instance, should not need to be called out of order, I'd think).

Her initial assessment that it's problematic is hanging in the air for Wednesday when Nurmi is, supposedly going to be forced to call a witness out of order (he does have the choice of just sucking it up and calling them in the intended order and continuing the testimony of whoever was on the stand, though).

I hope the COA makes their decision before the 25th. That's just too long of a way away. Because Nurmi is going to try everything to get the judge to delay the trial until the court makes its decision.

What a clusterf***.

ETA: I actually did watch the whole thing before so I didn't miss anything other than like 12+ minutes of Jodi and cougarloucious chatting it up.
 
MeeBee said:
Here's the thing: on Thursday when the media was asking for a stay the judge said no because calling witnesses out of order would be too "problematic."

But now the stay is granted and Nurmi and the judge have few choices here. Juan was pressuring her to make him call witnesses out of order and Nurmi was saying you can't back on what you said before, which was that it was problematic. The judge had changed her tune, which she didn't really have a choice, but she was now saying yes, some of these witnesses need to come before others, but I now don't see a problem if you call this witness first. And I did wonder about her saying it was "problematic." Sure, there may be some witnesses that will need to lay foundation for others. But surely they can't all be like that?

That's what Nurmi's problem was. He wanted her to delay the whole thing until the ruling because she said before he shouldn't call witnesses out of order. Now she is saying he can and it pretty much looks like she said he will because she said witness testimony will continue next Wednesday. She did give him a whole week to plan his next attack lol. So we'll see what comes of it because there's no way he's going to take this quietly.

That was my assessment of the argument. He did say something about not wanting to continue with media present and she said you don't have a choic. I could be off because, again, I didn't watch the whole thing (gonna do that now).

Hope this makes sense.
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MeeBee you are right in what you wrote as far as I understood it. The Judge is able to change her mind/ruling especially if another decision comes into play, which it did with the Appellate Court. Honest, KN, needs some refresher courses. KN could not even site another trial as a reference....but then the Judge let that go through....bad lawyering and judging there.

So does anyone know where KN and JW graduated from or what their class standing was?

And does anyone find it strange that JW has been real quiet through all of this?

I will check back for some answers...have to go check on another trial, more important, and deal with window contractors and bug guys.
 
MeeBee said:
Just wanted to let everyone know that I've seen the same questions getting asked over and over again and also people saying they asked a question but it was never answered. If you have a legal question AZLawyer is awesome about answering questions on the question and answer thread quickly and that way you don't have to worry that she'll miss it. Other verified lawyers can answer, too.

Also, some of your questions may have already been answered. Here's the thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Question-and-Answer-Thread-*no-discussion*-2
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Another thing you can do if you have legal questions, and have read the legal thread and still have questions is go to AZLawyer's profile and view her posts. You can read all of them right there. Good thing to do when these threads move so quickly and you haven't been able to read every post. Another attorney that used to post often was Minor4th, and Gitana1 also joins in. And there is also BOYTWNMOM. I would look at their posts before asking a legal question so we don't bore our attorneys and waste their time repeating themselves. ;)
 
But also, (sorry for multiple posts, lol) you are so right geevee. He wanted his whole case sealed so I don't even think his issue is calling them out of order so much as it is that he does not, under any circumstances, want to proceed with the media there. He's just stalling until he can figure out what to do next.

I still think the judge is trying to put her foot down. She was ready to go with shortened hours so Nurmi could have time to write his brief. But I'm sure he whined about needing all day. That was another stall tactic.

I guess I just don't understand the point in fighting this one little issue so hard at this point. Is it really SO crucial? His argument is that their presence interferes with Jodi's rights. But it doesn't and a court of appeals found the same. What more does he need? Does he really care or does he just want to win? What is he trying to hide?
 
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