Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 12/01/14 In recess

[cindymac]

I don't deny that he was scared. Well, who wouldn't be. However, the most painful traumas are always the ones that are "compatible with life" and the ones that are not as a rule rather painless.

Here's another direct testimony from a person who went into shock and they are many more like this out there.

Yes! Basically you just go to sleep suddenly. Your BP drops, you feel faint. Everything turns black from the outside in like a lens closing. If it's not reversed with drugs and oxygen and maybe CPR, you keep on shutting down and eventually you stop breathing and then die.

That's what it feels like. Not awful or unpleasant. Just scary as hell afterward when you realize how close you came...

http://www.***********************/forum1/message714225/pg1

It really doesn't matter how many examples you give, there are many more that illustrate quite the reverse, as any ER nurse or veteran, etc., will confirm. Also, this trial isn't about other people. It's about what Travis felt, and expert medical testimony affirms that Travis experienced enormous mental as well as physical pain and distress.

 

[Predator]

And then there's this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnbEmbOx0fM

Of course it hurts when you just nick yourself. Cut yourself vertically, deep and fast so that pain would go away quickly.

Then there is this:

Paper Cuts Are the Worst Kind of Pain.

What do you get when you cross a human finger with a paper's edge? Try: an obscene amount of pain. Why do such little cuts hurt so much?

It turns out that fingers and paper pair perfectly to produce a potent witch's brew of pain, with each ingredient bringing something special to the mix.

First, because we use them so often for tactile testing, our fingers are coated with an extremely high concentration of nocireceptors, or nerve fibers that send touch and pain signals to the brain. This makes fingers especially sensitive our "Achilles' heels" when it comes to rifling through papers.

As for paper itself, it's the perfect battleax. Sharp-edged enough to break skin, but too blunt to make a clean cut, paper carves through fingers like a dull, jagged saw. It doesn't cut deep, but this only makes matters worse: it keeps the blade riding high, at surface level, where nocireceptors that send the sharpest type of pain signals are typically concentrated.

Even worse, shallow cuts don't bleed much, so they don't readily clot and seal. Instead they remain open, exposing nerves to the air for a protracted length of time.

They just keep on stinging.

http://www.livescience.com/33371-paper-cuts-worst-kind-pain.html

 

[krkrjx]

I sorta expected this latest motion from Nurmi, he alluded to shutting out public/media in his oral argument before the COA judges for all mitigation witnesses, although the motion was exclusively for the secret witness on the stand.

I'd say, more smoke and mirrors, COA Judge Howe clearly stated: "case law notes a defendant has no constitutional right to a secret trial", what has changed????? I may be missing something, because, unless case law is to be rewritten; I just don't see this happening, but then again, most JSS hearings have been sealed so we are not privy to what is actually happening in the court. pfffft.

We'll see what tomorrow brings, hope this is over sooner than later, this is insane.

I don't think anything has changed since the CoA judges ruled. Truth is, Nurmi doesn't care about appeals court rulings or statutes or the constitution other than the parts that govern the rights of his client. He actually told JSS that the killer's constitutional rights override those of everyone else. And I think he firmly believes that, so much that he will use the argument again and again in his attempt to get JSS to see that Arias must be given special treatment. He is at a loss now to understand how the appeals court judges did not see it.

 

[janx]

I don't think anything has changed since the CoA judges ruled. Truth is, Nurmi doesn't care about appeals court rulings or statutes or the constitution other than the parts that govern the rights of his client. He actually told JSS that the killer's constitutional rights override those of everyone else. And I think he firmly believes that, so much that he will use the argument again and again in his attempt to get JSS to see that Arias must be given special treatment. He is at a loss now to understand how the appeals court judges did not see it.

He knows how they see it, he knows they're right, and that's his problem. He's desperate.

 

[janx]

And I'll bet if most of us had more education in law, we'd look up the cases he cited and see how he twisted logic to fit his purpose. That's what he's all about--that, and theatrics.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I agree but I'll go one further...she doesn't want to lose.

Lose the case,
lose to Juan, or lose to the family.

You are right that she keeps reaching for a win...she doesn't want to lose.

RBBM: BINGO ! You nailed it here, and great point !

CMJA's hatred spills out of her from every angle ... and I don't know who she hates more : JM or TA's family ? Maybe both equally ?

JMO and :moo:

 

[Val1]

Well, to be honest, your concerns seem quite distinct from those believing the nude/sexual pictures weren't taken that day. As far as the accidental crime scene photos, I could never make heads or tails out of them, at least not enough to form an opinion about the detail of events supporting one theory and rejecting another. I believe they show that she was there, and active in the murder, and that was enough for me.

As far as the testimony about the gun shot, wasn't the gun shot first theory taken initially from JA's third Book of Lies, and she testified to that sequence of events? The controversy arising subsequently is academic imo. She used both (knife and gun) during a short period of time, and TA did not survive the result. That's what's important to me.

As far as wanting to know the whole truth in great detail, it's not possible, and I know I can't walk down a dead-end street and expect to come out the other side. Some things aren't knowable.

To go back to the beginning, your concerns seem quite separate from those advocating JA planting the sex pictures.

BBM First I've never said JA "planted" the sex pics, in fact I think she probably did it unknowingly and that's part of trying to figure out whether it was one of her old memory cards that ended up in the washing machine. The second part of that is to try and find out if there was another camera involved, or an accomplice(iirc there was something about another person in the car with her on her way home after Utah, let alone the one that was with her when she rented it).

Btw, most of those pics on Flickr look to me like someone had photoshopped TA into them. The only reason I could see for it would be so the person who did it could, in their own head, think they'd helped him achieve a couple more of the destinations from his 1001 Places to visit. That said, I have no idea if TA had ever gone to those places on his own, though I believe the route JA took to Salt Lake after Mesa went right past both(at least Zion looks pretty close, not sure about the other one). I know from viewing her myspace album, I've never heard of her going to some of the places that she has pics of herself in, though perhaps she couldn't fit that into her 18 day testimony....

As for the PT's explanation being enough for you, great, and as far as convicting JA I tend to agree, it's not like she's still denying killing TA or that the rudimentary elements aren't there to have convicted her. However, I think it's incumbent on us all to make sure that we hold our law enforcement agencies to a very high standard when it comes to convicting and sentencing someone to LWOP or the DP. Otherwise you end up with successful appeals and justice does not get served in the end. Part of that high standard imo, especially when millions of public dollars are already being spent, is to show that any loose ends are dead ends and not just left to dangle for an appeals court.

 

[krkrjx]

When you are in shock you don't even know that you are dying! Just google the statements of people who tried to commit suicide and failed about what they felt seconds after they were seriously cut and after they lost their first liter of blood. It appears to be a "great" experience to bleed out. I mean I'd rather bleed out than get drowned or beaten to death.

If it is such a great experience, why did Travis fight it? He had numerous defensive wounds. That alone says he was not just going with the flow. He was not drifting off to sleep, unaware that he was dying. He was horrified, terrified, and frantically fighting for his life.

Stay with your theory if you are inclined but I do not think you will convince many (if anyone) here.

Over and out.

 

[janx]

Look, this guy's motions are a mess. He can't write, and his logic skills are so bad that often nobody knows what he's trying to say or how he comes from one point to another. "Thus,...Thus,...Thus,..." --complete non sequitur nonsense. He likes to use that term in court, but he uses it erroneously, and he sure as hell shows no ability to demonstrate how something would necessarily follow in his motions.

 

[ElleElle]

He must have been in shock... he didn't feel any pain.

Shock numbs the pain and shock ,in sooth, is the way in which your own body is motivating you to fight or flight to stay alive. Reacting to pain would get in the way of that and that is precisely why pain is significantly dulled, mind goes blank and instincts kick in.

Been there, done that.

Adrenaline is a superpower.

 

[ElleElle]

I wish I could believe he did not feel any pain but the look on his face in that last shower photo tells me that was not the case.

That expression on his face was emotional pain, not physical pain.
JMO

 

[janx]

Been there, done that.

Adrenaline is a superpower.

You beat me to it. :giggle:

 

[hindsight2020]

I don't think anything has changed since the CoA judges ruled. Truth is, Nurmi doesn't care about appeals court rulings or statutes or the constitution other than the parts that govern the rights of his client. He actually told JSS that the killer's constitutional rights override those of everyone else. And I think he firmly believes that, so much that he will use the argument again and again in his attempt to get JSS to see that Arias must be given special treatment. He is at a loss now to understand how the appeals court judges did not see it.

Hmmm, Nurmi stated before the COA that JSS recites and recounts her reasoning for the ruling (closing the court to public/media for the one secret witness on the stand) via closed hearing on Nov. 14. COA decison overturned JSS but cited 'under advisement', I wonder if the same ruling from JSS would apply to the rest of the mitigation witnesses? Can't wait to see how JSS rules on DT latest motion.

 

[ElleElle]

If it is such a great experience, why did Travis fight it? He had numerous defensive wounds. That alone says he was not just going with the flow. He was not drifting off to sleep, unaware that he was dying. He was horrified, terrified, and frantically fighting for his life.

Stay with your theory if you are inclined but I do not think you will convince many (if anyone) here.

Over and out.

Not necessarily. I surprised many people from surviving a motorbike accident with extreme blood loss.
I don't remember most of the incident, and thought there was water on the back of my head, meanwhile, my skull was cracked open. Traumatic indeed knowing the extent of my injuries and will to survive.
Just speaking on my life experiences.

 

[Mindmatters]

Hi all. Could someone please refresh my memory on how to use the block feature. :maddening: TIA :thinking:

 

[ElleElle]

Again, I feel like you're only talking about the bleeding to death part. By then, perhaps the hazy fog of death washing over him gave him a peaceful or calm feeling. But the events preceding it probably were not very calm or peaceful or without fear.

Here's a story from a woman who was stabbed in a frenzied attack more similar to Travis' so I feel like it applies better. She almost died. Her attack and the part after doesn't sound very calm or peaceful. As she lay in the car bleeding out, she interestingly never describes a calm or warm or peaceful feeling washing over her. Again, when I say it depends, I say it depends on the circumstances. You keep describing people who or just lying around bleeding out. That doesn't really apply here. Even so, it doesn't mitigate the terrible, agonizing death he suffered.

Here's the story of Becki Duckworth:

http://isurvivedamurderattackmyfamilydidnt.com/the-day-i-was-stabbed/

The difference here is Jodi did not quit. Travis fought with all his will, and Jodi would not have none of it.
He didn’t have a chance in her wrath.
This is why I believe the killing was so violent, she had no idea how hard it would be to kill him.

 

[Predator]

If it is such a great experience, why did Travis fight it? He had numerous defensive wounds. That alone says he was not just going with the flow. He was not drifting off to sleep, unaware that he was dying. He was horrified, terrified, and frantically fighting for his life.

Stay with your theory if you are inclined but I do not think you will convince many (if anyone) here.

Over and out.

<modsnip>

Class 3: 30-40% blood loss; hypotension, tachycardia over 120, tachypnoea, urine output under 20 ml/hour and the patient is confused (and "confused" is mildly put).

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/resuscitation-in-hypovolaemic-shock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct

 

[MeeBee]

The difference here is Jodi did not quit. Travis fought with all his will, and Jodi would not have none of it.
He didn&#8217;t have a chance in her wrath.
This is why I believe the killing was so violent, she had no idea how hard it would be to kill him.

Yes, the reason why it's so hard to find stories that more accurately resemble Travis' is because people don't usually survive them. This woman is very lucky to be alive (as are you Elle, wow!). Travis, like this woman didn't die right away or bleed out right away. What finally took him out was the slice to the throat. He felt it all, or, at least, he knew what was happening to him. In the story the woman cries out to God to save her so she knows she's being killed. Travis was a devout Mormon and was, IMO, definitely praying for his life as he died. These stories of a peaceful drifting off into slumber are nice to have when our time comes, but probably little comfort to the families in deaths like this one where fear is guaranteed and whose murder haunts their nightmares.

I think I'd prefer bleeding out to being viciously murdered...

 

[NashBridges2]

Hi all. Could someone please refresh my memory on how to use the block feature. :maddening: TIA :thinking:

I just used it myself, not interested in reading that rubbish. Click on the persons name, go to their profile, add to ignore list.

 

[NashBridges2]

Yes, the reason why it's so hard to find stories that more accurately resemble Travis' is because people don't usually survive them. This woman is very lucky to be alive (as are you Elle, wow!). Travis, like this woman didn't die right away or bleed out right away. What finally took him out was the slice to the throat. He felt it all, or, at least, he knew what was happening to him. In the story the woman cries out to God to save her so she knows she's being killed. Travis was a devout Mormon and was, IMO, definitely praying for his life as he died. These stories of a peaceful drifting off into slumber are nice to have when our time comes, but probably little comfort to the families in deaths like this one where fear is guaranteed and whose murder haunts their nightmares.

I think I'd prefer bleeding out to being viciously murdered...

I believe as well, that he fought hard and when he had no fight left, he did the only thing he knew, the only thing that helped him overcome his childhood, he prayed. And just the thought of that, brings tears to my eyes.