Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered

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A commenter has raised a point about the confusing timeline around this incident. Just to be clear, the Indonesian acting director general of transportation, Djoko Murjatmodjo, told reporters on Sunday that the flight was last seen on Jakarta’s radar at 6:16am (Surabaya local time) and was gone one minute later.

What’s confusing the issue is that AirAsia, in its early statements, said that all contact was lost with the control tower over an hour later at 7:24am (Surabaya local time). They haven’t clarified this time. We’re going to try to get to the bottom of the discrepancy.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light


This timeline cleared up that discrepancy for me.


TIMELINE (local times)
5.36am: QZ8501 departs Juanda Airport, Surabaya

6.12am: Pilots contact Jakarta Air Traffic Control centre, requesting weather deviation and a climb in altitude.

6.16am: QZ8501 still observed on radar

6.17am: Radar contact is lost.

6.18am: All contact is lost.Only flight plan view remains on radar screen

7.08am: Jakarta ATC declares aircraft position uncertain

7.28am: Jakarta ATC declares emergency alert

7.55am: Jakarta ATC declares emergency distress

11.47am: AirAsia confirms QZ8501 is missing

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227168426446
 
It is being reported on CNN now that the report of the plane being at the "bottom of the sea" has NOT been confirmed and the relatives have not been told that by the airlines. It is conjecture at this point.

JMO's
 
It is being reported on CNN now that the report of the plane being at the "bottom of the sea" has NOT been confirmed and the relatives have not been told that by the airlines. It is conjecture at this point.

JMO's

OMG, deja vu. Yes, no, yes, no, no, no, maybe, yes, doubtful, ect as heard from officials re:MH370.
 
Here is another person with only one name .. a weather forecaster commenting on the event.

Sunardi, a forecaster at Indonesia’s Meteorology and Geophysics Agency, said dense storm clouds were detected up to 13,400 meters (44,000 feet) in the area at the time.
“There could have been turbulence, lightning and vertical as well as horizontal strong winds within such clouds,” said Sunardi, who like many Indonesians uses only one name.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light
 
This timeline cleared up that discrepancy for me.


TIMELINE (local times)
5.36am: QZ8501 departs Juanda Airport, Surabaya

6.12am: Pilots contact Jakarta Air Traffic Control centre, requesting weather deviation and a climb in altitude.

6.16am: QZ8501 still observed on radar

6.17am: Radar contact is lost.

6.18am: All contact is lost.Only flight plan view remains on radar screen

7.08am: Jakarta ATC declares aircraft position uncertain

7.28am: Jakarta ATC declares emergency alert

7.55am: Jakarta ATC declares emergency distress

11.47am: AirAsia confirms QZ8501 is missing

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227168426446
Thank you for the timeline. It raises some questions, in my opinion, however. At 6:12am the pilot requests a climb in altitude (which has been reported by some sources as "denied"). Five minutes later at 6:17am radar contact is lost. One minute later all contact is lost. What was transpiring in the five minutes between the pilot's request and radar contact being lost? Did it continue to fly or did it, at that point, break up or become inoperable and begin an uncontrollable spiral into the water? What is the difference between radar contact being lost and all contact lost as there have not been any reports of further communication from the cockpit, or is that just a formal way of indicating the plane was never heard from again?

Those five minutes are crucial, in my opinion, as the position of the plane during that time could possibly indicate where it fell.

MOO
 
Thank you for the timeline. It raises some questions, in my opinion, however. At 6:12am the pilot requests a climb in altitude (which has been reported by some sources as "denied"). Five minutes later at 6:17am radar contact is lost. One minute later all contact is lost. What was transpiring in the five minutes between the pilot's request and radar contact being lost? Did it continue to fly or did it, at that point, break up or become inoperable and begin an uncontrollable spiral into the water? What is the difference between radar contact being lost and all contact lost as there have not been any reports of further communication from the cockpit, or is that just a formal way of indicating the plane was never heard from again?

MOO

I think that the 'radar contact is lost/all contact is lost' may refer to the primary and secondary radar ... as per this article.


"Authorities have not said whether they lost only the secondary radar target, which is created by the plane’s transponder, or whether the primary radar target, which is created by energy reflected from the plane’s body, was lost as well, Cox said."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light
 
This detailed report has just come through via the Associated Press:

The search for a missing AirAsia jet carrying 162 people that disappeared more than 24 hours ago on a flight from Indonesia to Singapore expanded Monday with planes and ships from several countries taking part.

First Admiral Sigit Setiayana, the Naval Aviation Center commander at the Surabaya air force base, said that 12 navy ships, five planes, three helicopters and a number of warships were talking part, along with ships and planes from Singapore and Malaysia. The Australian Air Force also sent a search plane.

Setiayana said visibility was good. “God willing, we can find it soon,” he told The Associated Press.


AirAsia Flight 8501 vanished Sunday in airspace thick with storm clouds on its way from Surabaya, Indonesia, to Singapore, and a rescue official said Monday that given the route of the plane he believed the most likely scenario was that it crashed.

“Based on the coordinates that we know, the evaluation would be that any estimated crash position is in the sea, and that the hypothesis is the plane is at the bottom of the sea,” National Search and Rescue chief Henry Bambang Soelistyo told a news conference.

---------------------------------------

The Airbus A320 took off Sunday morning from Indonesia’s second-largest city and was about halfway to Singapore when it vanished from radar. The jet had been airborne for about 42 minutes.

There was no distress signal from the twin-engine, single-aisle plane, said Djoko Murjatmodjo, Indonesia’s acting director general of transportation.

The last communication between the cockpit and air traffic control was at 6:13 a.m. (23:13 GMT Saturday), when one of the pilots asked to increase altitude from 32,000 feet (9,754 meters) to 38,000 feet (11,582 meters), Murjatmodjo said. The jet was last seen on radar at 6:16 a.m. and was gone a minute later, he told reporters.

Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia launched a search-and-rescue operation near Belitung island in the Java Sea, the area where the airliner lost contact with the ground.

---------------------------

AirAsia said Flight 8501 was on its submitted flight plan but had requested a change due to weather.

Sunardi, a forecaster at Indonesia’s Meteorology and Geophysics Agency, said dense storm clouds were detected up to 13,400 meters (44,000 feet) in the area at the time.
“There could have been turbulence, lightning and vertical as well as horizontal strong winds within such clouds,” said Sunardi, who like many Indonesians uses only one name.


Airline pilots routinely fly around thunderstorms, said John Cox, a former accident investigator. Using on-board radar, flight crews can typically see a storm forming from more than 100 miles away.

In such cases, pilots have plenty of time to find a way around the storm cluster or look for gaps to fly through, he said.

“It’s not like you have to make an instantaneous decision,” Cox said. Storms can be hundreds of miles long, but “because a jet moves at 8 miles a minute, if you to go 100 miles out of your way, it’s not a problem.”

Authorities have not said whether they lost only the secondary radar target, which is created by the plane’s transponder, or whether the primary radar target, which is created by energy reflected from the plane’s body, was lost as well, Cox said.

The plane had an Indonesian captain, Iryanto, who uses one name, and a French co-pilot, five cabin crew members and 155 passengers, including 16 children and one infant, the airline said in a statement. Among the passengers were three South Koreans, a Malaysian, a British national and his 2-year-old Singaporean daughter. The rest were Indonesians.

AirAsia said the captain more than 20,000 flying hours, of which 6,100 were with AirAisa on the Airbus 320. The first officer had 2,275 flying hours.

----------------------

The missing aircraft was delivered to AirAsia in October 2008, and the plane had accumulated about 23,000 flight hours during some 13,600 flights, Airbus said in a statement.

The aircraft had last undergone scheduled maintenance on Nov. 16, according to AirAsia.

The airline, which has dominated cheap travel in Southeast Asia for years, flies short routes of just a few hours, connecting the region’s large cities. Recently, it has tried to expand into long-distance flying through sister airline AirAsia X.

The A320 family of jets, which includes the A319 and A321, has a good safety record, with just 0.14 fatal accidents per million takeoffs, according to a safety study published by Boeing in August.

Flight 8501 disappeared while at its cruising altitude, which is usually the safest part of a trip. Just 10 percent of fatal crashes from 2004 to 2013 occurred while a plane was in that stage of flight, the safety report said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light
 
Sorry if it's been mentioned and I missed it, but was there an explanation for the 2 hour earlier departure?
 
Emirates (!) would you ask your guys if we are possibly talking about a microburst, or can that only happen close to the ground? Thanx! ANd are they heading more toward in flight breakup, as oppossed to impact itself? The more the weather stuff is coming about with more details, it results in feeling bad for the folks on board - in that i think they had a hellish violent finale
 
Microbursts are an issue close to the ground.
Other winds could have been an issue up there.
However I remain with my theory that this is like Air France 447. :twocents:

I think it basically stalled and fell out of the sky.
It may have started to break up before impact...
but I don't believe it had an explosive decompression or anything...where it broke apart in the sky.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light

Meanwhile, AirAsia CEO Tony Fernandes tells media in Jakarta the AirAsia group has carried 220 million passengers in 13 years and never had any fatalities. “Until today, we never lost a life,” he said.

He also said no airline can guarantee 100% safety to its passengers.
 
I haven't found any explanation but did find it in the news that it would depart 2 hours early, that's odd to me, but there's probably a reason.

Two Families Escape Disaster By Missing Doomed AirAsia Flight

It was a missed email that probably spared Ari Putro Cahyono and nine of his family members.

Cahyono and his family had tickets on flight QZ 8501, which was originally set to take off from Juanda International Airport at 7:30 a.m. local time. The departure time on the flight was rescheduled to 5:20 a.m., but Cahyono never read the email alerting him of the change. He and his family showed up at the airport at 5:30 a.m. on Dec. 27 – 10 minutes after the fateful flight took off.

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/people-who-escaped-the-death-on-air-asia-106416418947.html
 
c08aee1c-d01e-4db2-8c53-786e480dea18-bestSizeAvailable.jpeg

A leaked picture from Indonesian Air Traffic Control showing the coordinates of QZ8501 shortly before it vanished from the radar.


NOTE: Interesting that they have marked another plane UAE409 on this chart ^^^, as there were quite a few other planes around that area at that time. Did it see something? Did it see QZ8501/a plane follow downwards along the path of that line from its last known coordinates? :thinking: UAE409 would be an Emirates plane, wouldn't it emirates1957?


http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light
 
Aviation specialist Gerry Soejatman has been tweeting about the airspeed at which QZ8501 was traveling.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light

For people that don’t compute airspeed and tailwind automatically into real terms, I have spoken to Soejatman for further clarification.

Based on data he has seen, QZ8501 was not reaching the speeds required to sustain the aircraft at the altitude it was flying, an altitude of 36,000 feet.

“The plane appeared to be traveling well below what would have been its minimum speed at that altitude,” Soejatman told the Guardian, “This would indicate some sort of problem.”

Indications from the data show the airspeed was around 190 knots, well below the minimum cruise speed for that altitude, which is 220 knots.
 
Emirates (!) would you ask your guys if we are possibly talking about a microburst, or can that only happen close to the ground? Thanx! ANd are they heading more toward in flight breakup, as oppossed to impact itself? The more the weather stuff is coming about with more details, it results in feeling bad for the folks on board - in that i think they had a hellish violent finale

A microburst comes from a thunder cell. This event normally happens upon take off and landing. Apparently it is an extreme downdraft when it hits the ground and can disperse 360 deg. We had some crew who had experienced a microburst just recently when you see crew exit the flight deck and they have ashen faces you know it's been a hard day in the office. The majority of pilots/engineers think that it may have broken up in flight, aircraft landing whole and entering the water and remaining intact would be quite rare. Upon saying that they would have expected some debris to be located. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like. You have no idea how many pilots love to talk about themselves !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I've read that the passengers were notified the flight would take off earlier than scheduled and that's why some weren't on the plane. Not sure what is true or not though. This article brings up the passenger list. 23 no shows. There's a lot more in the article too.

AirAsia QZ8501: Search resumes for missing flight after anxious relatives spend night in crisis centreUpdated 40 minutes agoSun 28 Dec 2014, 6:24pm


Mr Hansford said another aspect of the flight was that an unconfirmed passenger manifest shows 23 people who booked to fly did not show up.

He said this was explainable, but it is something that authorities should investigate.

"If it's all a connected group, there's nothing of any complexity in it," he said.

"But if they were 23 people who just didn't make it, we could start to wonder why so many people didn't join the plane."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-29/airasia-flight-qz8501-search-to-resume/5990800

The passenger manifest also shows the seat numbers of the 23 no-shows, and one was 1A ... something does not seem right here.
 
c08aee1c-d01e-4db2-8c53-786e480dea18-bestSizeAvailable.jpeg

A leaked picture from Indonesian Air Traffic Control showing the coordinates of QZ8501 shortly before it vanished from the radar.


NOTE: Interesting that they have marked another plane UAE409 on this chart ^^^, as there were quite a few other planes around that area at that time. Did it see something? Did it see QZ8501/a plane follow downwards along the path of that line from its last known coordinates? :thinking: UAE409 would be an Emirates plane, wouldn't it emirates1957?


http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light

Absolutely right it is an Emirates aircraft.
 
Marine personnel have apparently christened the search and rescue operation to find this aircraft, Operation Rubber Duck, according to one Indonesian news outlet. We’ll try to confirm whether that name is official.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light


He also tweets that another press conference has been called, with rumours swirling that the wreckage of the aircraft has been found.

www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light
 
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