Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

[Curious Me]

I'm getting a lot from what you all have to share. I'm struggling with this, too, and have a different take on it daily.

I remember this true murder story where the son shot both his parents then raced back to his college. The father survived for awhile and actually got up like he was going to go to work, and automatically tried to make a lunch...while he was dying of a head injury!

It's like Cindy went on automatic at some point and started the covering up.

 

[sumbunny]

I'm getting a lot from what you all have to share. I'm struggling with this, too, and have a different take on it daily.

I remember this true murder story where the son shot both his parents then raced back to his college. The father survived for awhile and actually got up like he was going to go to work, and automatically tried to make a lunch...while he was dying of a head injury!

It's like Cindy went on automatic at some point and started the covering up.

Thats possible. But by this point, wouldn't she have snapped out of it, come to her senses, and start telling some truth?

Her depositions are filled with lies, and half truths. It's highly apparent. I'm almost embarrassed for her.

 

[texaslb218]

Early on, didn't she say to Lee or George to come home "Casey is in trouble." Wouldn't that tell us, knowing what we know now about how CA covers everything for CA, that she was in coverup mode even then?

I'm quoting myself in embarrassment because I knew I had seen that information somewhere. DUH! It's on woe.be.gone's tagline. I have accidentally repeated the obvious! You guys didn't even correct me.

Sorry, Woe

 

[seagull65]

I understand what you're saying seagull, but in such a tense/stressful situation..why would cindy start cleaning? I'd hope that would be the last thing on her mind.

She knew there was "big trouble" (according to text messages sent to casey).
I'd hope that running to find casey/caylee would have been of the upmost importance..not cleaning and going back to work.

It's simply not what most people would do faced in that same situation.
(I'm a huge neat freak by the way) If I found my sons car reeking of death (garbage bag or not) I know i wouldn't go back to work, and start taking everything out of his car and cleaning it. George knew something was seriously wrong, he removed the car battery in order to keep the car home.

all true, and I agree about going back to work, I know I wouldn't have been able to go back to work. Though Cindy may have taken refuge in her work for a long time, and after all, she had had to be the breadwinner for some time also, so it could be another engrained habit and automatic behavior. But I could never have gone back to work, I know that.
Yes, the "big trouble" text or email is strange, and all the points raised here are very good. Thanks for the thread, Carrie

 

[LaLaw2000]

Well, it is just my opinion that Cindy knew that something had happened to Caylee and even helped Casey come up with a plan. I honestly believe there really was a script, but one made up by Cindy and Casey.

I do not believe George knew anything about it until later, but before July 15th when Casey was brought back to the family home. I think that George and Cindy both knew exactly what the smell in the trunk was.

If Casey is going to be the only one to face the death penalty, then she should not be the only one to face criminal prosecution if anyone else helped her after the fact in any way. JMO, but I do think that Casey killed Caylee in order to be free of the responsibility of her and did not want Cindy and George to have her. The worst that could happen happened to little Caylee and I want justice for her. That includes anyone who knew about the murder after the fact and helped conceal the crime.

Now this is my opinion only, but is what I firmly believe. I want to see Casey convicted and Cindy, George, and Lee charged with accessory after the fact.

MOO

 

[sleutherontheside]

I think Cindy has been more genuine throughout this ordeal than the media have given her credit for. I do think her call to 911 was genuine. I think she was very alarmed, maybe not only by the smell but also just to find out that Casey had somehow been living with no car, then when she got face to face with Casey and Casey still wouldn't bring Caylee home, that was the limit for her, she realized, okay, no more of Casey's promises, Caylee needs to be brought home immediately, this is crazy.
Regardless what the car smelled like, etc, I think Cindy just kept telling herself, as most people would, there's going to be some logical explanation for all of this, this situation can't be as bad as it seems, some explanation is going to come out, Caylee will be home soon, this is going to all turn out to have been some big mix-up, etc. Later, I think the trash having been found in the trunk became her way of explaining the smell away in her own mind, and she revised her memories then, saying she hadn't been genuinely worried about a death smell when she called 911, she'd only been trying to get the police to come over quickly.
I think part of the reason she cleaned up items from the car might be because she has a deeply engrained habit of cleaning up after and nursing others, and literally cleaning up after Casey, picking up her things, washing her clothes, etc. I really do think her nursing background and compulsively clean personality just kicked in in response to the disorder of the car and the chaotic situation and her frustration and worry regarding not having Caylee home yet. I think she was trying to return the situation to normal. I think she thought when the police got there that they would make Casey take her to Caylee and that would be that. I don't think her mind would allow for the possibility that Caylee was hurt or dead at that point. But there could have been a primal fear in the back of her mind that Casey may have gotten involved in some kind of serious trouble, and a smell that made her think someone could be dead, something could be dreadfully wrong, which may also have been part of the impetus behind her compulsive picking up and cleaning and rationalizing things away (whether Casey is actually guilty or not.) I don't know if Cindy ever consciously believed that Caylee could be hurt or dead, much less that Casey could be a suspect.
I think there were moments when the fear came closer to the surface than others. If that makes any sense.
I think there might have been times when Cindy tries to paint things in the best light, because she's afraid there may be things that could make Casey LOOK guilty, but that she for the most part can't believe that Casey would ever harm Caylee, and I do think she has wanted to get to the bottom of things for Caylee's sake, more than people often give her credit for.
I do think she wants the truth. I think she wanted the boyfriends and new friends who had been around Caylee investigated, because Caylee disappeared after coming into contact with certain people, and because of the history with JG for example, I think most parents would have wanted all these people investigated too, so I don't fault her for that. I think she wanted Caylee found, and that she does want the truth.
As she said in that 48 hours program, although she can't believe that Casey would ever harm Caylee, if that's what the evidence proves in the end, that will be her answer.

Very early on I chose not to discuss the family because they were being vilified in the media. That was BEFORE their crazy train departed the station. I totally agree with your comments about CA. I think many of her behaviors at the time could have been explained by the points that you raised. My opinion of the family has changed however, in the last year due to their actions. As a mother I would want to do everything in my power to protect my child regardless of what they had done. BUT, I would support them quietly, refuse interviews and media rounds, would not sell images of my grandchild, align myself with unsavory scam artists(DM), and continue to force feed the general public that notion that the "emperor is fully clothed" and that there is "no proof he is naked" and then cry foul when someone points out a discrepancy in my statement. I would tell the truth and be consistent in my depositions. I would love my child, and honor my grandchild and keep my family and their feelings private. Just because the media made this such a public case, does not mean that the A family was obligated to function as "spin doctors". Those behaviors can not be excused. I will say this.....nobody should have to go through what the A family is going through.. Nobody should have to feel that anguish. Nobody should be put in a position where they have to "choose" loyalties between family members. Nobody can fully understand their reasoning. BUT......nobody is above the law. I wish they had never given one public statement. They would have been much further ahead in the sympathy polls and better off for it.

 

[celticthyme]

I think that CA "knew" something as soon as that car pulled in the driveway....but a small part of her had hope that she was wrong. I think that while she cleaned up the car she still hoped that she could get KC to produce Caylee. In the back of her mind, she left open the possibility that Caylee was alive, but her deliberate actions were her "motherly" instincts to protect her daughter kicking in. When she finally got KC home and found out that KC would not or could not produce a safe and live Caylee her gut reactions kicked in. She was realizing that her fears had been confirmed. She called 911 because in that moment of anger and panic(her real feelings unfiltered)..she wanted KC punished. She wanted KC held accountable. She wanted Caylee and KC was an afterthought. It was after she realized that night that Caylee was never coming home that she began her agenda to protect KC. Again...motherly instincts kicking in.

Sleuther, I totally agree with everything you've said and I've thought the same. Through this whole ugly saga, we have seen this love / hate, push / pull , schizophrenic reaction of Cindy toward Casey.Cindy has protected, covered, lied for Casey much of her life, then turns around and tells her friends, that she is a liar, thief, cheat, sociopath . . .Cindy knew Casey had no job, but pretended she did; did not confront her when she was told Caylee was with a " Nanny," ( why would she ever need a nanny?) She knew she was capable of stealing, deceipt,horrible tantrums to get her way, bad behavior, poor mothering, . . .

I do not think, even Cindy could at that moment comprehend that her own daughter was capable of doing something to Caylee, but she instinctively wanted to find her. I agree, those few minutes at that house were the only real and truthful moments we've ever seen of Cindy.

Casey's grifting behavior & lifestyle would probably keep an army of psychologists busy for 20 years. She is a narcissistic sociopath for sure. The not bothering to complete simple credits for her HS diploma seems to show the beginning of her aimless, clueless, shifty behavior. I think getting pregnant and having to keep the baby she did not want, the having to take responsibility for this baby ( at least partially) and having attention she desperately needed taken away by the baby, all contributed to her getting out of control.
Again, Cindy forced the situation with Caylee, and think truly had no comprehension that that kind of responsibility was way beyond what KC could handle. I think that was the beginning of the end of the downward spiral for the family dynamic. JMO of course.

 

[seagull65]

I agree so much about the damage the Anthonys have done to their image by speaking out and getting into confrontations. I wish they had never said a word, never confronted anyone, etc. On the other hand, I can see how unprepared they were to know how to deal with the media, and the media were defaming them and Casey terribly right from the beginning. It would push a lot of people over the edge. I've really never seen anything like it.
I have the impression that they are the kind of people who respond to that kind of thing with a fight. I can't blame them but I wish a wise lawyer had been able to keep them from getting into confrontations. On the other hand again, I know how desperately they wanted to get Caylee's picture out there and enlist the public to look for her (thinking she was alive and out there somewhere). Then they had the crazy mob screaming at them day and night from their curb and nothing was done about that. I think all of it contributed to their behavior and distrust of the media, LE, the public, etc. But I do wish they had just held their tongues and not responded to any of it, and definitely not gotten involved with Kidfinders , etc. I thought it was way too early for them to try to get involved in any causes, and especially with that organization. They should have just kept to themselves as much as possible and tried to comfort each other rather than "getting out there". I can understand their anger and frustration when many of their comments are taken out of context and thrown back at them at a later stage, I find it really unfair at times, and it makes them react very defensively and badly. I know the state is going to do it to them in the trial. I dread that.

 

[Brini]

Because dawn didn't break for CA until just AFTER the first 911 call. JMVHO

 

[Curious Me]

sleutherontheside said, "Just because the media made this such a public case, does not mean that the A family was obligated to function as "spin doctors".

I agree. Cindy's brother, Rick, tried very hard to warn her that if she insisted on believing the nanny story and trying to protect Casey she would be hated for it. I, too, wish CA and GA had stayed in the background to grieve. It has been painful watching them do the wrong things they have said and done.

There is no excuse for helping someone cover-up a murder of an innocent little girl. The only right thing they can do now is to tell the TRUTH. I think they have a very disrespectful attitude to law enforcement and the public for wanting to see their grandchild get justice. I think they have done quite a few things to cover-up a murder. I think they have tried to cash in on this sad event. I feel a great deal of empathy for them, but do think they have made themselves part of this crime.

 

[celticthyme]

I agree so much about the damage the Anthonys have done to their image by speaking to the public and media at all. I wish they had never said a word, never confronted anyone, etc. On the other hand, I can see how unprepared they were to know how to deal with the media, and the media were defaming them and Casey terribly right from the beginning. It would push a lot of people over the edge. I've really never seen anything like it.
ITA
I know how desperately they wanted to get Caylee's picture out there and enlist the public to look for her (thinking she was alive and out there somewhere).

But can not agree with the above. Just this week, we have seen the reaction of a mother whose child went missing . . she was frantic, terrified and absolutely panicked.
Never, ever once, was there any kind of reaction like this from the Ants. They knew that Caylee was dead.

Cindy and George are a lot of things, but a policeman & a nurse, know what was in that car. Both of them desperately cleaned that car before they even got Casey home. I think they knew, on some level, something horrible had happened. Why cover up the evidence?? Frankly, I'll never understand why they brought that car home from the impound lot before they found Casey . . I just don't get that. Why?

You are so right about the lunies hounding them outside their home, having to deal with the loss of Caylee, but I think the command post, posters, etc were going through the motions for them. what else could they do??? They had to play along. The fact that TE & LP were soon looking for a dead baby, made them nuts, but if they gave into that scenario, it would point the finger more directly at KC, and they could not do that. MOO of course, but that's how I see it.

 

[seagull65]

I was always puzzled by a couple of comments I saw, one was a young man who went to Colonial High when Casey did, he saw her at the jail when she was inprocessing I think, I think he was outprocessing. Anyway, media were interviewing him and he made the comment, "Oh, ask anyone from our school, everyone we went to school with knows that you don't tell the police anything." Then there was also the comment when GA and CA first went to visit Casey at the jail, where Casey said to Cindy in a reassuring tone, "Oh, I haven't told them anything." (I can't remember if she actually said, "Don't worry, I haven't told them anything" or if it was just her tone that made it sound like that.) But it struck me as so strange. I wondered if maybe among some of the people they know there is a culture of not really trusting the police or enlisting their help, or being completely forthcoming with police, or something. I don't know if it's true, these particular comments just puzzled me

edited to add: of course that is no excuse if any of them were not entirely forthcoming in the case

 

[believe09]

To me, they all play high stakes poker and figure they will talk/bully/lie their way out of the consequences later.

Cindy and George find a decomp ridden vehicle, immediately start cleaning it up while trying to find Casey so she can make sense of it all for them. Its not like they didn't really know IMO. Their subconscious gave them some pretty clear directions...I doubt they expected to find out it was Caylee she killed however.

They get their hands on Casey and she refuses to explain. So Cindy threatens to call-still no response, so she calls. Still no appreciable response from either Casey or the police. She calls again. Casey gives her a snippet which makes her crazy and still the police dont show (in her mind not taking her seriously) so she ups the ante for the third time with her third call....I think she expected to cow Casey into producing Caylee...then when the police arrived the backpedaling started.

Again JMO.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I think George and Cindy's anxiety built upon itself for 31 days. When they were faced with the stink of the car I believe they knew something very, very bad had happened. Whatever it was, no matter how serious, they chose to try to handle it themselves first. (Remember they even searched for disturbed ground in the back yard?) And right up until the time that Casey told them Caylee had been gone/missing/taken they were coping in their usual manner. Cover up. Handle it themselves. Clean the mess in the car. Go to work. Talk to Casey first. Check the back yard. Clean the pants.

This is the short time that I truly believe they were in denial. Even the first two 911 calls Cindy didn't reveal the whole truth. The truth came out as an excited utterance during the third call. And I think it was because Cindy, for a very short period of time while she was in shock, lost some of her control. As soon as she realized what she had done the cover up began in earnest!!! Probably before the police even had time to arrive!

IIRC in her latest depo she even says she never heard anyone say that the car smelled of anything but garbage. Not a dead body. Not decomp. Nope, she always thought it was garbage. Now she claims she only used the dead body term to get the police's attention. Hmmmmmmm, how odd she chose (out of a myriad of facts she could have picked) to lie about something that was a true fact. My Hungarian mother used to call it "painting the devil on the wall."

I believe they began "fixing things" before they even knew the fullness of what was wrong. When Cindy was hit in the face with the truth her pain was so great that her iron grip on control slipped a bit. If she hadn't lost control for that briefest moment I believe no one would have known about Caylee until all the ends had been tidied up by the Anthonys.

 

[Marigold]

I think George was in cover up mode long before they picked up the car. I think that's why he did the yard work in the back yard (iirc) and that's why he had the tow truck guy look in the trunk. I think he persuaded Cindy to go back to work, to buy time to figure out what to do next. I don't think he told Cindy about Caylee until after Cindy had brought back Casey.

I sure would love a detailed description of everything George Anthony did that day. He reminds me of George Lindsey, the man that played "Goober" on the Andy Griffith show. Lindsey was good at acting like a good-natured dumb guy, but in real life, he had a Bachelors Degree in Bioscience and was a science teacher before he took up acting.

 

[mysteriew]

The part of it that always puzzled me was that they got the car then went back to work. They pick up the car and it smells like a dead body and she didn't go looking for KC and Caylee. That just didn't feel right to me. I think I figured that out and it partially explains why only her pants were washed, not the other items in the car.

They pick up the car and they realize it smells like a dead body. Their thoughts wouldn't let them go to something happening to Caylee. And CA had been texting with KC. So their thoughts probably went along the lines of KC lent the car to someone or it was stolen and she didn't tell them. Then she may have thought of the people KC had gotten mixed up with more recently, they must have used KC's car and were involved with moving a dead body. KC would get into legal trouble if it was found out. Clean up car and go back to work. However, at work I don't think CA's thoughts could let it alone. I think then she started to worry about Caylee.

CA goes looking for KC and finds her. No Caylee and KC isn't talking. I think CA still is more or less hoping that it was another dead body, but with no Caylee she starts in on KC. Stolen money, car abandoned and stinks, where is Caylee. KC's answers didn't make sense so CA calls the cops. Still no answers from KC. CA gets tired of waiting, she calls cops back. KC is still stonewalling, so CA gets ready to call cops back and I think she actually dialed probably, finally KC indicates she is ready to talk. I think LA may have caught on at this point. I think that after the third call either KC or LA told CA.

Cops arrive. CA starts in about the stolen money. She knows she had to have a reason for making the call, so she uses the stolen money. Cops are there, LA is going after KC's possessions, and comes back. Things are really confusing and the A's didn't have time to think. CA appeared really angry when she talked with police, but from what I read she really didn't talk about the car or the smell or her missing grandchild. The money was her excuse for the calls and the distraction for police. At this point, I think she knew what happened or at least part of it. I think she knew Caylee was dead. And I think her purpose then became to protect KC.

What I think is crazy, is that if KC had told CA straight up what happened, I think CA would probably have just dropped it. People would probably have been told that KC gave Caylee up for adoption. KC would have been 'punished' by kicking her out of the house. Later arrangements may have been made to move the remains to a more secure place.

 

[mysteriew]

I think George was in cover up mode long before they picked up the car. I think that's why he did the yard work in the back yard (iirc) and that's why he had the tow truck guy look in the trunk. I think he persuaded Cindy to go back to work, to buy time to figure out what to do next. I don't think he told Cindy about Caylee until after Cindy had brought back Casey.

I sure would love a detailed description of everything George Anthony did that day. He reminds me of George Lindsey, the man that played "Goober" on the Andy Griffith show. Lindsey was good at acting like a good-natured dumb guy, but in real life, he had a Bachelors Degree in Bioscience and was a science teacher before he took up acting.

GA's activities that day are the ones I know the least about. CA's and even LA's I have read about. But where was GA when the police came? Was he at home? If at home, was he in the house?

 

[capricorn]

Maybe Cindy thought she would be another Beth Holloway Twitty.

 

[Marigold]

GA's activities that day are the ones I know the least about. CA's and even LA's I have read about. But where was GA when the police came? Was he at home? If at home, was he in the house?

That's what has me puzzled too. I mean, if you think about it, the Anthonys explain and even over-explain many things. Why are they so vague about George's whereabouts on that day?

 

[Pollywog]

Didn't GA say something like "please don't let this be my Caylee" when he first got to the tow yard and smelled the decomp? I think they knew but did not want ot believe their evil child would have done this. Now it is just save KC and make as much $$ as they can, IMO.