Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

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Unfortunately, you can't cut/copy and paste from a pdf file. Just go ahead and link to it.

I'm curious to see the discrepancies.

Thanks, I should have asked about this earlier instead of trying to C&P.

http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/ah092308.pdf

Starting on page 1054 to the end of AH's depo July 22. AH talks about CA's discussions in the car on the way to pick up KC at TL.

CA states directly to AH that "they" were afraid that the smell of death was from either KC or Caylee when they opened the truck. CA goes into great detail about the car being picked up from the tow yard and everyone smelled it.

Pg 1059 CA tells AH "they" haven't heard from KC or Caylee in a month.
Pg 1060 line 13 CA tells AH she had sorta reported the odor, or tentative reporting.


This depo, like the others, the officers getting the statements, jumps from subject to subject so they are discussing the dead squirrel (poor thing) and then they talk about the money KC stole then then go back to CA and the smell and Caylee.
 
LE not mentioning the odor in the car from the get go has always been a debated mystery imo.
we know that CA reported it to the 911 dispatch and they typically pass that information along to the repsonding officers. but based on the fact that they didn't impound the car that minute really makes me curious. at that point CA and GA were very cooperative, and I think they would have handed the car over no problem.
It is not until the bond hearing do we have LE testifying that there was an odor in the car when thy got there and that they smelled it.
The argument to this has always been that they were not investigating a possible murder at that point, but rather a missing person report and a stolen car. But to me, if i was called out on a "stolen" car and it smelled like a dead body and there was a child unreported missing for 31 days, I would pretty much have grabbed that car before any evidence could be tampered with.
So I have always wondered why it took hours to get that car by way of a search warrant when they could have taped it off as a possible crime scene or at least asked if they could take it in. This has never made sense to me.

As I member it (and it may not be right) the cops came because of the Kidnapping. It was a more important call then the stolen car. Then the 911 or the police ran across the address as being the same--so thats when they all got together and decided to go check out the car---being they had a missing baby and the mother wasn't talkin but telling lies---then they clicked with the car smelling like there was a dam dead body in it. I think that is why they were late about the car. I don't member that they went into the garage the first time around.
 
With respect, any nurse who has been around or cleaned a gangrenous wound knows EXACTLY what decomp smells like.

I think CA recognized the smell immediately. So did GA.

I can second that from experience. I could tell what was coming through the door before it even came through the door. :sick::yuck:
 
Actually, the 5th Amendment right to remain silent does apply whether or not a person is charged or incarcerated. :blowkiss:
:blowkiss:
I think though that the courts/LE would be obliged to provide immunity for what they do say while on the stand, so in essence, they can either testify and get immunity from prosecution for whatever they say, OR they can plead the 5th and face their own charges shortly thereafter.:) Wouldn't you think? :blowkiss:
 
As I member it (and it may not be right) the cops came because of the Kidnapping. It was a more important call then the stolen car. Then the 911 or the police ran across the address as being the same--so thats when they all got together and decided to go check out the car---being they had a missing baby and the mother wasn't talkin but telling lies---then they clicked with the car smelling like there was a dam dead body in it. I think that is why they were late about the car. I don't member that they went into the garage the first time around.

The cops were called three times so they came for all of the above.
My point is that Cindy clearly told dispatch about the odor.
Dispatch was still on the line when LE arrived. I don't understand why the car wasn't immediately made unavailable and they did not get it until hours later on the 16th. but many of us have gone around and around about this in the past, so I don't want to beat a dead horse.
But imo,LE should have done something about that car sooner. I don't think they had to wait for a search warrant, because they can be had in the middle of the night and the Anthony's were offering everything up at that point anyway. I would think the cops would tape it off because of the odor, if the odor was that bad. IOW, while the Anthony' had already been in the car before calling LE, why would anyone think that was a big deal when LE didn't even bother to get it until the next day or hours later?

Just one of those things that may be neither here nor there, but it bugs me if there is a car that smells like death, a missing baby, and a mother that has not reported her child as missing,but it was left at the home overnight.

The responding officers said at the bond hearing that the car smelled bad, so we know they noticed it that night. It's jut curious to me no more, no less.
 
I'll have to watch that one again. I think CA knowing a decomp smell or how she would is moot, b/c although I have never smelled human decomp, I would think based on what I have heard that wouldn't most of us know immediately? That it's such a horrifying, distinctive reek that most of us would smell it and know it signals death? Or not?.....

Yes, you would know it immediately. I was responding to a poster that said, she thought Cindy (although she was a nurse), had not smelled decomposition.
 
Thanks, I should have asked about this earlier instead of trying to C&P.

http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/ah092308.pdf

Starting on page 1054 to the end of AH's depo July 22. AH talks about CA's discussions in the car on the way to pick up KC at TL.

CA states directly to AH that "they" were afraid that the smell of death was from either KC or Caylee when they opened the truck. CA goes into great detail about the car being picked up from the tow yard and everyone smelled it.

Pg 1059 CA tells AH "they" haven't heard from KC or Caylee in a month.
Pg 1060 line 13 CA tells AH she had sorta reported the odor, or tentative reporting.


This depo, like the others, the officers getting the statements, jumps from subject to subject so they are discussing the dead squirrel (poor thing) and then they talk about the money KC stole then then go back to CA and the smell and Caylee.
Thanks for posting the link. I never doubted that both CA and GA were scared sh$$less about what may have been in that trunk. Remember, Cindy wanted confirmation from her husband..."It's the pizza, George...right?" But, this "kind of reporting" is very interesting. It tells me that they suspected Casey had done something...that they should have reported it...but they did nothing. Cindy had received texts from Casey...that much we know to be true. It was Caylee who they hadn't spoken with. It's Caylee they feared dead IMO. But, now here's where I'm not sure what happened. More and more lately, I think the parents may have helped to put together the "story". You can't just go from one extreme...my granddaughter is dead and her mother is "unfit"....to some lady named Zanny took her and my very responsible daughter, the "Mother of the Year", has been busy searching high and low for her. C and G knew there was NO NANNY. I have never been able to get this one exchange between Cindy and Casey out of my head...Casey's response "Are you kidding me?" has always made me feel that there's more to their involvement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28159418/page/3/
 
Yes, you would know it immediately. I was responding to a poster that said, she thought Cindy (although she was a nurse), had not smelled decomposition.

Sorry to confuse.....newish to posting. I knew what you meant and what your response was for. I had just wanted to state that IMO, I think I'd know the smell, and I've never smelled it before.
 
In my mind its very simple (lol) The A's knew the second they smelt the decomp.

They knew Caylee had been missing since at least July 3. As soon as they smelt human decomp in the car the perp used they knew the deal. All they didnt know was exactly how it went down.
 
Thanks for posting the link. I never doubted that both CA and GA were scared sh$$less about what may have been in that trunk. Remember, Cindy wanted confirmation from her husband..."It's the pizza, George...right?" But, this "kind of reporting" is very interesting. It tells me that they suspected Casey had done something...that they should have reported it...but they did nothing. Cindy had received texts from Casey...that much we know to be true. It was Caylee who they hadn't spoken with. It's Caylee they feared dead IMO. But, now here's where I'm not sure what happened. More and more lately, I think the parents may have helped to put together the "story". You can't just go from one extreme...my granddaughter is dead and her mother is "unfit"....to some lady named Zanny took her and my very responsible daughter, the "Mother of the Year", has been busy searching high and low for her. C and G knew there was NO NANNY. I have never been able to get this one exchange between Cindy and Casey out of my head...Casey's response "Are you kidding me?" has always made me feel that there's more to their involvement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28159418/page/3/


BBM ITA. It just doesn't make sense to go from one extreme to the other. There is just too much of their own behavior and their own statements that has been inconsistent, dishonest, scheming.....they have some involvement. I think damage control started long before 911 was called.
 
BBM ITA. It just doesn't make sense to go from one extreme to the other. There is just too much of their own behavior and their own statements that has been inconsistent, dishonest, scheming.....they have some involvement. I think damage control started long before 911 was called.
I hope LE remembers them...in the end. I'll be patient and wait.
 
I agree, JB. It is a bit odd. Perhaps the "death smell" portion of the last 911 call was not relayed to the officers since they had already been dispatched, and was only noticed when all the 911 reports were written up and combined with YM's notes of the interviews that night and the Anthony's signed reports.

Perhaps the Anthonys admitted the car smell that evening but attempted to downplay it by repeating the line of the employee at Johnson's when he opened the trunk and said "oh here's what's causing that horrible smell" and threw the bag of garbage over the fence . GA said he and CA had turned to each other when they brought the car home and "agreed" it was pizza that had caused the smell.

Even if that is what they told LE when they arrived, LE was still on the ball enough to go back to Johnson's Towing and get that garbage bag that had been thrown over the fence that very night. I just don't think it may have initially connected the smell in the car with a crime scene yet, or if they did, they may not have wanted to make that connection in front of the grandparents until they did a little more investigation, either out of sensitivity or simply suspicion. They knew the car had been driven home by the grandparents regardless of the smell and enough time had passed for someone to interfere with maintaining a pristine condition of the trunk. Their initial priority that evening may have been simply trying to locate the baby and put the car smell second until the garbage story could be corroborated or until it became clear that, if Caylee could not be located, that made the car smell a more ominous sign.

It's apparent that after the Imaginanny Wild Goose Chase that night however, LE sent a homicide detective along on the Universal Tour the next day, the 16th, when KC was finally cornered in that office and questioned, which is also when they impounded the car after they were unable to get KC to confess to anything, particularly that she may have had a hand in Caylee's "disappearance".

Perhaps at that point, LE was less suspicious of the Anthony family and any attempt they might make at obstruction of justice (ie: cleaning the trunk) and more focused on KC, who they were keeping a close eye on and had in their custody for all but a few hours after their arrival the previous evening. I'll bet they wish they had impounded it earlier at this point, but may not have thought that KC would have been as resistant to questioning at the time.

They may also have either realized that the trunk had been compromised anyway, as it had been opened and gone through by the grandparents, and they were not necessarily in any hurry to impound it. If an attempt had been made to clean up evidence, it would likely be very apparent once it was examined by experts.

I'm sure LE may now wish they had done certain things differently, but I was there when the recordings of the "Universal" interviews came out, and I was shocked that some local channels (and commenters) actually were criticizing LE for coming down too hard on her in that interrogation. I couldn't believe that anyone could think LE was less than professional or were acting too rough on her. It made me think that, for some reason, LE knew they had to handle this with kid gloves from the get-go. JMHO.
 
I agree, JB. It is a bit odd. Perhaps the "death smell" portion of the last 911 call was not relayed to the officers since they had already been dispatched, and was only noticed when all the 911 reports were written up and combined with YM's notes of the interviews that night and the Anthony's signed reports.

Perhaps the Anthonys admitted the car smell that evening but attempted to downplay it by repeating the line of the employee at Johnson's when he opened the trunk and said "oh here's what's causing that horrible smell" and threw the bag of garbage over the fence . GA said he and CA had turned to each other when they brought the car home and "agreed" it was pizza that had caused the smell.

Even if that is what they told LE when they arrived, LE was still on the ball enough to go back to Johnson's Towing and get that garbage bag that had been thrown over the fence that very night. I just don't think it may have initially connected the smell in the car with a crime scene yet, or if they did, they may not have wanted to make that connection in front of the grandparents until they did a little more investigation, either out of sensitivity or simply suspicion. They knew the car had been driven home by the grandparents regardless of the smell and enough time had passed for someone to interfere with maintaining a pristine condition of the trunk. Their initial priority that evening may have been simply trying to locate the baby and put the car smell second until the garbage story could be corroborated or until it became clear that, if Caylee could not be located, that made the car smell a more ominous sign.

It's apparent that after the Imaginanny Wild Goose Chase that night however, LE sent a homicide detective along on the Universal Tour the next day, the 16th, when KC was finally cornered in that office and questioned, which is also when they impounded the car after they were unable to get KC to confess to anything, particularly that she may have had a hand in Caylee's "disappearance".

Perhaps at that point, LE was less suspicious of the Anthony family and any attempt they might make at obstruction of justice (ie: cleaning the trunk) and more focused on KC, who they were keeping a close eye on and had in their custody for all but a few hours after their arrival the previous evening. I'll bet they wish they had impounded it earlier at this point, but may not have thought that KC would have been as resistant to questioning at the time.

They may also have either realized that the trunk had been compromised anyway, as it had been opened and gone through by the grandparents, and they were not necessarily in any hurry to impound it. If an attempt had been made to clean up evidence, it would likely be very apparent once it was examined by experts.

I'm sure LE may now wish they had done certain things differently, but I was there when the recordings of the "Universal" interviews came out, and I was shocked that some local channels (and commenters) actually were criticizing LE for coming down too hard on her in that interrogation. I couldn't believe that anyone could think LE was less than professional or were acting too rough on her. It made me think that, for some reason, LE knew they had to handle this with kid gloves from the get-go. JMHO.

Oh yes, that's right......LE did go in the middle of that first night back to the tow yard and get the bag of trash...so somehow there were wise to the car smell. I've been thinking that the info in that last 911 call was passed on related to the missing child, but that one CA sentence just wasn't communicated forward to LE. But somehow they did know and they were on top of it. Maybe, just maybe they were a little slow to jump on the car smell hoping that Caylee's mother (using the term loosely) would talk and not lawyer up immediately, which might help find the child faster. And talk she did, but they just couldn't crack the lies. Thanks for reminding me about LE getting the trash bag that first night from the tow yard, which means to me they WERE onto the car smell immediately.....even without the A family telling them about it when they first arrived. Whew.......it's just all sooo bizarre.
 
JBean--I can't get opening post countzero links to work. Only the Part 2 link works for me. Is anyone else having this problem?

BTW-I went to wftv myself to look for officers reports and ran across the report for the forensic's garage that took KC's car. It says they got it on July 16 @ 19:46, so I think that is around 7:30. Just an FYI. Posting that link just in case it isn't one countzero posted (don't know coz I can't open two of them?).
http://www.wftv.com/news/18530418/detail.html


Where are you guys finding each individual officers reports? I don't remember seeing those. I read YM's report and each of the A's reports but I don't remember other officers reports. Thanks.

Part 1 and 3 are VERY large files and it takes time for the files to open. I checked all links and they are working fine.
 
No, I just re-read the docs again and LA states CA knew about the odor when GA brought the car home from the tow yard.

I was thinking about this yesterday, when CA asked at the tow yard, "It was the pizza, wasn't it George?"

This question I have heard GA repeat to LE, and only yesterday it struck me as being a very odd question to ask.
 
The cops were called three times so they came for all of the above.
My point is that Cindy clearly told dispatch about the odor.
Dispatch was still on the line when LE arrived. I don't understand why the car wasn't immediately made unavailable and they did not get it until hours later on the 16th. but many of us have gone around and around about this in the past, so I don't want to beat a dead horse.
But imo,LE should have done something about that car sooner. I don't think they had to wait for a search warrant, because they can be had in the middle of the night and the Anthony's were offering everything up at that point anyway. I would think the cops would tape it off because of the odor, if the odor was that bad. IOW, while the Anthony' had already been in the car before calling LE, why would anyone think that was a big deal when LE didn't even bother to get it until the next day or hours later?

Just one of those things that may be neither here nor there, but it bugs me if there is a car that smells like death, a missing baby, and a mother that has not reported her child as missing,but it was left at the home overnight.

The responding officers said at the bond hearing that the car smelled bad, so we know they noticed it that night. It's jut curious to me no more, no less.

Ya know JBean, in all the many hours I have used going over these docs, it is clear that many pieces are missing for us to review. I also noted in the docs that in many of the officers written reports at the end they use a sentence or two, paraphrasing here -- that the investigation is still on going. Which says to me, they aren't releasing any more at the current time and the info is critical to the prosecution of the case.

I also think about those 911 calls, especially the last one. LE rolls to the front door, CA is still on the phone. Perhaps the 911 operator didn't pass that specific odor info to the arriving officer immediately or they did and LE knew they could not get to the car until a proper search warrant was executed. YM was eventually called to the scene well after midnight. KC's first interview took place at 04:11 7.16.08. By then the warrant was being created, a judge signing and the car being secured. GA also signed a release document for LE to remove the car. LE on their own went in the dark to retrieve the trashbags from the dumpster.

So even though the events didn't take place as they do on CSI, the time period of less than 24 hours was in reality pretty dang fast.

The severe odor ...... this info is no doubt in the working notes and if the investigation regarding the car, not the forensic discovery, but the initial hands-on are still under investigation, then we won't see those notes/summary until LE/SA releases them to JB&crew.

The other testimony doc I want to see is from the nail salon where KC got her nails done the same week she got that tat. I still haven't seen any written statements that verified or squashed the statements from her friends that she got a manicure and a tat in the same week.
 
I was thinking about this yesterday, when CA asked at the tow yard, "It was the pizza, wasn't it George?"

This question I have heard GA repeat to LE, and only yesterday it struck me as being a very odd question to ask.

I believe she asked this question at the house.
 
Sorry to confuse.....newish to posting. I knew what you meant and what your response was for. I had just wanted to state that IMO, I think I'd know the smell, and I've never smelled it before.

I have never smelled human decomp either but I have smelled dead animals and they smell horrible, even months later. The only other smell that was that bad was the scent of rattlesnakes I guess when they are in heat and when you walk across or near their trail it is unmistakenable. Is that a word?

If human decomp odor is worse than that, I can't imagine how anyone could even walk into the garage especially with the door pulled down, let alone clean out the trunk, unless they wore masks. (I wonder if any masks were recovered.) So CA/GA knew.

The smell would have had to penetrate into the house whenever they opened the door so LE must have smelled it from the start whether they went into the garage or not. So LE knew too.
 
Thanks JBean for moving the threads over here for further discussions.

Everyone, I am still re-reading those docs. This ol' brain of mine can't absorb it all and I have cheat sheets written on little yellow pads of paper so I don't misquote what the docs say. I am really concentrating on GA's depo because of this mis truths he spoke to LE/FBI specifically about KC's whereabouts between 6-15 & 7-15 and the 7-15 date itself. I really want to compare the three stories told in the depos.

The three written statements by CA/GA/LA on 7-16 also bother me. Not once did the mention of odor come up.


BBM
Yes, Interesting isn't it? All 3 had writers block in the police report when it came to the decomp smelly car .
A child is "missing", the car smells like decomp and GA knew from first hand experience what that smell was. It's PIZZA folks! :mad:
 
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