Richard Allen Welch, Sr.- A Person of Interest

[Wayners]

I'd love to see a diagram of this hillbilly family.

 

[steveP120]

I'd love to see a diagram of this hillbilly family.

Some people put some time into looking into the family tree on the following thread because someone (mistakenly or referring to Lloyd as an uncle in my opinion) said two uncles were involved leading to a websleuth search for the so-called still-living second uncle (Lloyd in my opinion).
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?234651-Lloyd-Welch-is-Person-of-Interest/page29

From above thread:
Coming soon in another post...we'll go through a genealogical exercise, where we'll consider who could be the second uncle that Dollie Mae Justice Estep (daughter of Ruth Welch Justice b.4-22-28, d.3-21-11 and Aaron Dexter Justice b.9-6-32, d.est.May, 2014) referred to when she said "two of her uncles had been implicated in the disappearance of two sisters". Consider this: If you look at the actuarial tables for reference, the second uncle is likely dead. And in this case, records indicate 6 out of 7 of Dollie's uncles on the Welch side of the family are dead: Lloyd Lee Welch Sr.d.1998, Luke Welch.d.70s?, Thomas Teddy Welch.d.2010, Wesley Overstreet d.1995 (Artie), Wesley D. Stangee d.2010 (Gladys) and Allen W. Parker d.2013 (Lizzie).
Since Uncle Dick is the sole surviving Welch uncle, who is the second uncle? Did the second uncle (or their survivors) have something to tell LE?

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Lloyd's father got drunk and killed his mother in an auto accident, putting Lloyd in foster care for a few years.

 

[beachlvr0810]

I'd love to see a diagram of this hillbilly family.

Please remember that some of the Welch family members do come here and read these posts and I'm sure they don't want to be called hillbillies. And as far as wanting a diagram, are you requesting a family tree?

 

[AAWJ]

Some people put some time into looking into the family tree on the following thread because someone (mistakenly or referring to Lloyd as an uncle in my opinion) said two uncles were involved leading to a websleuth search for the so-called still-living second uncle (Lloyd in my opinion).
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?234651-Lloyd-Welch-is-Person-of-Interest/page29

From above thread:
Coming soon in another post...we'll go through a genealogical exercise, where we'll consider who could be the second uncle that Dollie Mae Justice Estep (daughter of Ruth Welch Justice b.4-22-28, d.3-21-11 and Aaron Dexter Justice b.9-6-32, d.est.May, 2014) referred to when she said "two of her uncles had been implicated in the disappearance of two sisters". Consider this: If you look at the actuarial tables for reference, the second uncle is likely dead. And in this case, records indicate 6 out of 7 of Dollie's uncles on the Welch side of the family are dead: Lloyd Lee Welch Sr.d.1998, Luke Welch.d.70s?, Thomas Teddy Welch.d.2010, Wesley Overstreet d.1995 (Artie), Wesley D. Stangee d.2010 (Gladys) and Allen W. Parker d.2013 (Lizzie).
Since Uncle Dick is the sole surviving Welch uncle, who is the second uncle? Did the second uncle (or their survivors) have something to tell LE?

-------------------------------------
Lloyd's father got drunk and killed his mother in an auto accident, putting Lloyd in foster care for a few years.

Luke welch was 1984. I think
I been saying this for a long time. Who COULD be the second uncle? LE never discredited what she said.(Dollie) And as soon as that came out I bet most of the family was hit with gag orders. which is understandable because they don't want to mess up their case with the release of too much information.

 

[steveP120]

Please remember that some of the Welch family members do come here and read these posts and I'm sure they don't want to be called hillbillies.

While there was a network TV show in the 60s and 70s, The Beverly Hillbillies, the term is now insulting if said about someone else.

However, being called a hillbilly pales in comparison to some of the criminal acts members of the family have been, likely libelous in my opinion, called here.

A ten-year old member of one family could be a rapist-murder (OK anything is possible and there are exceptions) while, 10 and 12 year old members of another family would never be tempted by beer, pot or shoplift. I really have to think some people have never been kids in the 70s or led very sheltered lives or just like starting arguments; The 70s Show was not all fake.

 

[RichardLewis]

I'd love to see a diagram of this hillbilly family.

Ok, I have to admit it was sort of funny that you used the word "hillbilly." It brought images of the movie "Deliverance" to mind. However, it is also a disparaging term and likely to piss off some folks. Take the high road instead.

 

[siriunsun]

While there was a network TV show in the 60s and 70s, The Beverly Hillbillies, the term is now insulting if said about someone else.

However, being called a hillbilly pales in comparison to some of the criminal acts members of the family have been, likely libelous in my opinion, called here.

A ten-year old member of one family could be a rapist-murder (OK anything is possible and there are exceptions) while, 10 and 12 year old members of another family would never be tempted by beer, pot or shoplift. I really have to think some people have never been kids in the 70s or led very sheltered lives or just like starting arguments; The 70s Show was not all fake.

Being a hillbilly really has nothing to do with kidnapping and murder. As disparaging as it may sound, some of the best love I've ever known, and, some of the best love I've ever made, (!!) has been in hillbilly territory, with hillbillies. I did grow up where the Lyon sisters lived, though, and I was also born in 1962. I do not think most of us, in that community, were sheltered, but I do not remember lots of peer pressure to become a juvenile delinquent when I was 10 or 12. Later on, maybe at 14 or 15, there WAS pressure to do some of those things.....but rape, kidnapping, and murder were, and still hopefully are, in a different category. Whatever Lloyd was doing, it was not part of the genre of the Katherine and Sheila.

Please; that 10 year old (actually 11 year old) family member was much more likely to have been a witness whose memories have been repressed because of hysterical amnesia. It's also possible that he was terrified to come forward because he was rightfully worried that he would suffer the same fate. Wouldn't that, hypothetically, make sense? Especially if the 11 year old is from a "normal" family, and not a "hillbilly"? We have to remember that he actually lived in Maryland, and was just like any other child in Maryland, except that he had been abused and had obviously been pressured to keep some secrets that most kids cannot imagine. I am not from a mountain community, but I find it very difficult to read unkind, disparaging comments about that eleven year old, just because of his family. So far, if the part of LLW's statement about him being in the car when the girls were taken is true, it's my personal opinion that he is innocent, and therefore; another victim here.

 

[Wayners]

PRESTON, England, Nov. 24— Two chubby-cheeked 11-year-old boys were convicted today of abduction and murder in the beating death last February of a Liverpool toddler, James Bulger, and sentenced to serve a term of indefinite custody for what the trial judge later called "an act of unparalleled evil and barbarity."

They kidnapped tortured and murdered a toddler a 2 year old! They were 10 years old at the time. Anything is possible.

 

[Wayners]

I didn't mean it as a derogatory term against mountain people, I meant it as a derogatory statement against the Welch family members specifically, that knew something since 1975 and said nothing!! That is disgusting! Their f'ed up family member(s) are more important to them. I read a post somewhere else where a WS member said they knew a member of the family and this person said, well I'm not that surprised this was one @#$#$'ed up family.

 

[steveP120]

PRESTON, England, Nov. 24— Two chubby-cheeked 11-year-old boys were convicted today of abduction and murder in the beating death last February of a Liverpool toddler, James Bulger, and sentenced to serve a term of indefinite custody for what the trial judge later called "an act of unparalleled evil and barbarity."

They kidnapped tortured and murdered a toddler a 2 year old! They were 10 years old at the time. Anything is possible.

That was in 1993 and likely made the news because it was so unique. Off the top of my head, what is it one or two 10-year-old bullies every year don't realize their own strength or don't' care and kill some younger kid? I would venture a guess that none of these kids got away with murder, but it's possible a few did and we don't know it was a 10-year-old murderer.

Someone with a better knowledge or rare and highly unusual murders might know if there was ever a case where a 10-year-old was partners with adults in premeditated murders. Are there any drug addicts so high, or people so crazy or dumb, to drag along a 10-year-old on a murder?

Yes, it could happen, but I would guess the odds are higher that the two girls are still alive, which is very, very low unfortunately.

 

[beachlvr0810]

I didn't mean it as a derogatory term against mountain people, I meant it as a derogatory statement against the Welch family members specifically, that knew something since 1975 and said nothing!! That is disgusting! Their f'ed up family member(s) are more important to them. I read a post somewhere else where a WS member said they knew a member of the family and this person said, well I'm not that surprised this was one @#$#$'ed up family.

Let me just lay it all out here for everybody who reads this thread...I am related to the Welches...I for one am getting really tired of reading and seeing horrible things written about the "Welch Family". I am not defending Lloyd Jr. or anyone else who has abused or molested a child. I have 3 grandsons, two of which are the same ages as the Lyon sisters were when they disappeared. There are hundreds of people all related to Welches in one way or another and they are not to blame for any of this. If you want to call Lloyd Jr. a piece of s**t for what he's already been convicted of doing, then by all means have at it. But please stop making it sound like all the Welches are "f'ed" up. I used to really like coming to WS to discuss things and possibly learn things but if being called names and having an entire family be convicted of a possible crime just because of their last name is what I have to look forward to every time I come to these threads, then I'll just stick with my TMD FB page where the name calling and accusations are not tolerated.

 

[Richard]

It should be remembered that Lloyd Welch, Jr. is the origional source of any and all allegations about members of his family being involved in the disappearence (alleged abduction) of the Lyon sisters.

We must consider the source. Lloyd is a convicted burglar, child molester, rapist, etc. etc. who is a known liar and probably mentally ill. As evil or as crazy as Lloyd is, it does not excuse any of his crimes or illegal activities. It is also in no way an inditement on anyone in his family.

Montgomery County Police, the FBI, and LE in Bedford County Virginia are conducting a joint investigation, during the course of which they have made some disparaging remarks about the Welch family, and have actually named Richard Welch (subject of this thread) as a person of interest and have named his nephew, Thomas as a possible witness - based solely on statements made to them by Lloyd Welch, Jr.

Those are the few "facts" in the case which have been released, but to date NO evidence has been cited other than Lloyd's alleged statements from prison. And even then, Lloyd has made other conflicting statements both before and after pointing his finger at Richard and Thomas.

Unfortunately, without much factual information or evidence, SPECULATION has taken over and gotten a bit out of hand in my opinion. I cannot imagine anyone having knowledge of such crimes as child abduction, rape, and murder (as many have speculated) being kept secret from law enforcement, even by a family member. The suggestion that an entire family, including extended family and in-laws, had full knowledge of such crimes and has kept them secret over the years is absurd.

It is possible that IF Richard Welch and Lloyd Welch, Jr. were involved in the abduction of the Lyon Sisters, they MIGHT have had other accomplices - either inside or outside of family. But rather than assume that their whole family is guilty and make demeaning remarks, isn't it better to consider possible links to other known criminals who were in the Washington Metro area committing similar crimes?

Lloyd Welch is not the first person to have claimed intimate knowledge of the fate of the Lyon sisters. Others have made similar statements and even "confessions" linking themselves to the case. A strong possibility exists that Lloyd has simply been "making it all up as he goes along" - for reasons that even he cannot understand.

 

[siriunsun]

How much was invested in checking out leads each time someone personally claimed knowledge, and how much did law enforcement the public, during those investigations? Did a grand jury ever have anyone prosecuted for perjury because of this case? Something is different this time.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Richard, wouldn't you agree that since the police have interviewed and met LLW2, that they have verified for themselves many of the things he has said?

I did not realize that family members being involved was based on LLW2's statements.

Since LE has other evidence we don't know about and since they know Lloyd's past behavior, doesn't it seem logical that they wouldn't just say to the public that LLW2 and family members are responsible?

I know that I need reminders about what the law says and you are very good about reminding us that people are innocent until proven guilty.

I have to admit that I have been affected by how LE has repeatedly said how ones in the Welch family are not opening up and they have pleaded with them to do the right thing.

PW being charged with lying to the grand jury has placed a huge shadow of suspicion of things being hidden and kept secret.

As Motherof5 has reminded us, believe it or not LE DOES KNOW MORE than we do.

1) Richard, when did things change with the law of someone not being named a "SUSPECT" right away?

beachlvr0810, please forgive me if in any way I have said improper things.

I know I have never felt it is right to call people names or to use profane language.

I actually will be happy if some in the family truly ARE NOT guilty.

People do deserve the benefit of the doubt and I feel very sorry , even for LLW2 to have been in the car when his father crashed and his mother was killed. I truly believe that affected his life greatly. It does not excuse his bad choices and terrible crimes he has done, but it does shed some light on his past, which may have affected his thinking.

It is hard to know how to discuss this case, since no one has been formally charged.

I like what one member's page says at the bottom about, what do we know?, what can we prove?

Most of us are highly charged up with anger and frustration that such a horrible crime could occur with the abduction of the Lyon sisters and unlike other cases which have come and gone and been solved--this one has 40 years of built up emotion.

 

[Richard]

The terms "suspect" and "person of interest" - as used today - have evolved in meaning over the years.

At one time, police would consider any number of persons to be "suspects" and even name them as such in wanted posters and newspapers. Today, it is usually only after a lot of careful investigation and evidence gathering that someone is named a suspect.

This is a result of more recent cases involving both criminal law and civil law.

When a person is named as a "suspect", there may be a certain period of time in which he has to be charged with something. Once charged with a crime or crimes, he has the right to a speedy trial. If a certain amount of time goes by in which the trial is delayed a number of times, the defense moves for dismissal on the basis of his client being denied his constitutional right to a speedy trial.

Now, if investigators have not found all the evidence they are looking for, they don't want to rush the process by naming a suspect early on. This can be seen clearly in the naming of Lloyd and later Richard Welch as "Persons of Interest" before the long and drawn out searches and archaeological digs, and meetings of a grand jury to consider evidence.

A second reason for not naming a person as a "suspect" is that there have been a number of civil court cases in which the county, state, or federal law enforcement authorities have been successfully sued by persons who were named as "suspects" and then not prosecuted. A case in point was Richard Jewell, a security guard who discovered a backpack with a bomb at a crowded Atlanta concert. The FBI named Jewell as a suspect and as a result, he lost his job and was looked upon with suspician as a criminal and nationally humiliated on TV shows. Eventually the real Atlanta bomber suspect was named, but the FBI made no apologies. Richard Jewell sued and was awarded over a million dollars in compensation. And the FBI looked like idiots.

As a result of the implications and legal issues mentioned above, the term "Person of Interest" has become popular in fairly recent times. LE can say, Hey, we are just interested in him and want to talk with him, he is NOT a Suspect."

 

[georgiasblu]

Beachlover, let me add how sorry I am that you are in this position. I remember reading your posts when the search on the mountain began and feeling very sad for you. It was apparent how difficult it was for you as a long time resident and someone with a real love of the mountain. I've always appreciated your comments and hope you stay.

 

[Richard]

While doing research, I came across a picture of the Giant Food Security Badge.

I mentioned to LE about it and they told me to send the pic which I did....

...

Could you post a link to your photo of the Giant Food Security Badge?

 

[simplifymylife2014]

I need specific directions on the EASIEST, MOST SIMPLE WAY to post a picture here on WS.

 

[danmanhatter]

I need specific directions on the EASIEST, MOST SIMPLE WAY to post a picture here on WS.

Give this a shot. When you are composing your message, click on the 'Insert Image' icon. It will allow you to link from a website or upload a file from your computer.

 

[simplifymylife2014]