Ron. C. #13

[pittsburghgirl]

We know Crystal has addiction issues because a number of people close to her have revealed that information. From what I have seen in the media, Ron has passed drug tests and claims to be clean. Without more data, we can't know about his situation. It is the nature of addicts/substance abusers to hide the abuse, so often people lie about, minimize, and/or deny their problem. I'm not giving Ron a "break"; I just don't have evidence, one way or the other. Certainly, the driving record and drug possession arrests point to his having some kind of problem in the past. That might well have been related more to age and peer-group practices than to physical or psychological addiction.

When Crystal did not take the children to the dr (she did not drive), who was she living with? I wonder if it was GMA. So the father of the parent just let 12 dr. appts get missed and never made arrangements for them to go? What kind of father would do this? He had a mother and GMA that didn't work, they could have helped, especially if he was living with them. I cannot believe that he was the responsible parent and she wasn't. For all we know, she could have had post-partum depression.

Whisperer, I don't see any way that Ron can be at fault if Crystal, when she had physical custody, failed to get the kids to the doctor. The whole point of custody is making sure that children's need for food, shelter, clothing, education, and medical care are met. It's a responsibility that can't be dismissed by "I don't have a car." Crystal, like every other human in the world, can ask a friend or relative for a ride to the doctor. She could call Ron and ask him or TN or her own family members or the next-door neighbor. If SHE fails to get the kids to the doctor, or misses her court hearing, it's HER fault, no one else's. The only way an addict gets better is if everyone around him or her stops making excuses for what they do and what they fail to do. It doesn't help Crystal for people to minimize her failures--just as it doesn't help Ron to minimize his temper and lack of judgment in picking females to bring around his kids.

 

[OneLove]

[/B][/B]

We know Crystal has addiction issues because a number of people close to her have revealed that information. From what I have seen in the media, Ron has passed drug tests and claims to be clean. Without more data, we can't know about his situation. It is the nature of addicts/substance abusers to hide the abuse, so often people lie about, minimize, and/or deny their problem. I'm not giving Ron a "break"; I just don't have evidence, one way or the other. Certainly, the driving record and drug possession arrests point to his having some kind of problem in the past. That might well have been related more to age and peer-group practices than to physical or psychological addiction. BBM

Great post about addiction and addictive behaviors, Pittsburghgirl, and so true about the lying and denying. And since the supposed "drug test" mentioned was only extrapolated from the "drug testing policy" of his short-term employer and never been proven to have been administered to Ron, we do not know that he indeed passed any drug test! There is certainly plenty of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence that his drug use is not merely in his past, or at least not very FAR in his past!

Given what we know about how very young Crystal was when she first moved in with Ron (and TN iirc?), I think it more likely that Crystal's first use falls under your concept of "age and peer-group practices" through her very unfortunate relationship with the older and already drug-involved Ron. Sadly, odds are that both of them still struggle today with their "peer-group practice" of using drugs. Too bad this process started under the roof, care, and jurisdiction of a parent. :banghead:

In the interests of not enabling either one of them, I wouldn't choose to say that Ron is just being "one of the gang" while Crystal alone has "drug addiction issues".

 

[curvecuti]

[/B][/B]

We know Crystal has addiction issues because a number of people close to her have revealed that information. From what I have seen in the media, Ron has passed drug tests and claims to be clean. Without more data, we can't know about his situation. It is the nature of addicts/substance abusers to hide the abuse, so often people lie about, minimize, and/or deny their problem. I'm not giving Ron a "break"; I just don't have evidence, one way or the other. Certainly, the driving record and drug possession arrests point to his having some kind of problem in the past. That might well have been related more to age and peer-group practices than to physical or psychological addiction. BBM

Great post about addiction and addictive behaviors, Pittsburghgirl, and so true about the lying and denying. And since the supposed "drug test" mentioned was only extrapolated from the "drug testing policy" of his short-term employer and never been proven to have been administered to Ron, we do not know that he indeed passed any drug test! There is certainly plenty of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence that his drug use is not merely in his past, or at least not very FAR in his past!

Given what we know about how very young Crystal was when she first moved in with Ron (and TN iirc?), I think it more likely that Crystal's first use falls under your concept of "age and peer-group practices" through her very unfortunate relationship with the older and already drug-involved Ron. Sadly, odds are that both of them still struggle today with their "peer-group practice" of using drugs. Too bad this process started under the roof, care, and jurisdiction of a parent. :banghead:

In the interests of not enabling either one of them, I wouldn't choose to say that Ron is just being "one of the gang" while Crystal alone has "drug addiction issues".

blue and bbm. Um, RC was 16 CS was 14. And there is no proof RC was "already drug-invloved". Infact, CS's own Mother, right around this time, was arrested for drugs and maintaining a dwelling. So, it's fair to say CS already had alot of drug knowledge from her own family home.

 

[OneLove]

Whisperer, I don't see any way that Ron can be at fault if Crystal, when she had physical custody, failed to get the kids to the doctor. The whole point of custody is making sure that children's need for food, shelter, clothing, education, and medical care are met.
> snip <
The only way an addict gets better is if everyone around him or her stops making excuses for what they do and what they fail to do.

So true about the point of custody being that kids are taken care of. Unfortunately, in the real world, it very often just doesn't happen. We took my stepchildren to the doctor and dentist MANY times and bought their clothes and saw to their needs when their "custodial" parent chose to use child support for trips to Hawaii and Mexico and bought new trucks, jet skis, horses, a business, and a farm for her 23 year old boy toy. During one visit, my sweet lil step daughter was down to one pair of shoes and they had a hole in them. Really.

Are you saying that we should have shrugged and NOT
seen that they were properly cared for? That we could have just let them slip through the cracks and said "WE can't be held responsible" because it was HER responsibility, "legally"?

Would you really call that being a parent??

If we had chosen to ignore the obvious failing of their "custodial" parent, I think it would be called being MAD and choosing anger above LOVE for an innocent child. Sometimes what is "ethically" right falls outside the limits of what the law requires. Being a parent OFTEN demands that!

Yes, I think Ron, his mother, and his grandmother SHOULD have seen that poor little Haleigh received her medical care. After all, it was JUST a trip to the doctor so that she could live a normal life and develop into a normal adult. Would any of us have left her in the cold like that?

 

[OneLove]

[/B][/B].... there is no proof RC was "already drug-invloved". QUOTE]

There is no proof of much of anything we discuss here, just lots and lots of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence. We also look at many "likelihoods" and "odds". I find it highly unlikely he woke up at the age of 18 no longer a minor and under "juvenile privacy laws" and suddenly started doing drugs and building a long arrest record. Whatever the truth is, it started under the roof, care, and guardianship of a parent. How very very sad for both of them. And at the ages of 16 and 14....:doh:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Great post about addiction and addictive behaviors, Pittsburghgirl, and so true about the lying and denying. And since the supposed "drug test" mentioned was only extrapolated from the "drug testing policy" of his short-term employer and never been proven to have been administered to Ron, we do not know that he indeed passed any drug test! There is certainly plenty of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence that his drug use is not merely in his past, or at least not very FAR in his past!

Given what we know about how very young Crystal was when she first moved in with Ron (and TN iirc?), I think it more likely that Crystal's first use falls under your concept of "age and peer-group practices" through her very unfortunate relationship with the older and already drug-involved Ron. Sadly, odds are that both of them still struggle today with their "peer-group practice" of using drugs. Too bad this process started under the roof, care, and jurisdiction of a parent. :banghead:

In the interests of not enabling either one of them, I wouldn't choose to say that Ron is just being "one of the gang" while Crystal alone has "drug addiction issues".

wow. And where does Crystals mother work into all this?!
Where was she? It was her job, not Ron's to raise her child!

 

[OneLove]

wow. And where does Crystals mother work into all this?!
Where was she? It was her job, not Ron's to raise her child!

Yes, you're right, I absolutely 100% agree! She does not in any way get a free pass here. I am only pointing out that from the age of 14on, she was living with a boyfriend under the roof/care/jurisdiction of HIS parent, and those are some mighty formative years. I would say that "peer pressure" from a 16 year old boyfriend (who would soon be getting a free pass on all his drug and bad-boy arrest charges) would be pretty influential when you're 14 and dependent on him and his mother for your bed and food.

It is so unfortunate and painfully obvious that many people let these kids down, and the cycle probably goes back generations.

 

[doobiedoo52]

In reference to Haleigh not being taken to her doctor's appointments---I can't find the court transcript any more--links no longer work that I have, but I thought they were appointments during the time RC & CS were still together. CS didn't have a license at that time and she stated that she was afraid to have GGS take her because she fell asleep at the wheel. If anyone has the transcript yet, I believe this was brought up in trial. So, I don't know who would be at fault if that is the case. If RC wouldn't let her get a license--it's kind of a close call to make. JMO

 

[OneLove]

In reference to Haleigh not being taken to her doctor's appointments---I can't find the court transcript any more--links no longer work that I have, but I thought they were appointments during the time RC & CS were still together. CS didn't have a license at that time and she stated that she was afraid to have GGS take her because she fell asleep at the wheel. If anyone has the transcript yet, I believe this was brought up in trial. So, I don't know who would be at fault if that is the case. If RC wouldn't let her get a license--it's kind of a close call to make. JMO

*boggled* Oh my, is there something that leads us to think he wouldn't ALLOW Crystal to get a license?

And about those doctor's appointments, given what we now know about his work history, its not like he didn't have the time or flexibility to take Haleigh IF that had been a priority to him.

In broken marriages, for the sake of the children, one must love the child MORE than one hates the ex. Being used as leverage DESTROYS children.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yes, you're right, I absolutely 100% agree! She does not in any way get a free pass here. I am only pointing out that from the age of 14on, she was living with a boyfriend under the roof/care/jurisdiction of HIS parent, and those are some mighty formative years. I would say that "peer pressure" from a 16 year old boyfriend (who would soon be getting a free pass on all his drug and bad-boy arrest charges) would be pretty influential when you're 14 and dependent on him and his mother for your bed and food.

It is so unfortunate and painfully obvious that many people let these kids down, and the cycle probably goes back generations.

Amen! Every last one of 'em.

 

[curvecuti]

In reference to Haleigh not being taken to her doctor's appointments---I can't find the court transcript any more--links no longer work that I have, but I thought they were appointments during the time RC & CS were still together. CS didn't have a license at that time and she stated that she was afraid to have GGS take her because she fell asleep at the wheel. If anyone has the transcript yet, I believe this was brought up in trial. So, I don't know who would be at fault if that is the case. If RC wouldn't let her get a license--it's kind of a close call to make. JMO

No, it was not when they were together. It was after RC had taken custody of the kids and CS was seeing them on weekends, or when ever she had time. I don't think RC can prevent anyone from getting a driver's license, and since CS obviously did not stay in school, I doubt she even eligible to get a license. And it doesn't matter, taxi's run every day and if the children were on Medicaid, they will provide transportation if it is needed.

It would make things nice and simple if we could twist every.single.thing. to in some way be RC's fault, but it gets ridiculous after awhile.

 

[OneLove]

No, it was not when they were together. It was after RC had taken custody of the kids and CS was seeing them on weekends, or when ever she had time. I don't think RC can prevent anyone from getting a driver's license, and since CS obviously did not stay in school, I doubt she even eligible to get a license. And it doesn't matter, taxi's run every day and if the children were on Medicaid, they will provide transportation if it is needed.

curvecuti, you seem to be quite knowledgable. :innocent:

Could you shed some enlightenment for us on why neither Ron, his mother, or his grandmother took Haleigh to the doctor? I understand she missed more than 20 appointments. With Turners Syndrome, that could be quite devastating.

 

[Whisperer]

Pittsburgh Girl, please fill me on the time span from when Crystal and Ron parted till he filed. IIRC they were only seperated a few months, no?

If Crystal could not get a license because of her age or school, how did rc get one? I believe he had quite a few accumulated byy 18, no?

And I would also like to know what drugs her children were born addicted to..you have said her last was born addicted, so what about Jr? What exactly was Chloe's problem. Many children are born with drugs in their system but that doesn't mean they are addicted. She has been painted like a heroin or crackhead the way it sounds. Do you have information regarding Chloe? Suppose Crystal was taking pain pills or othe prescribed meds and that is what was found in Chloe's blood.

Since this is the rc thread, I stand by my statement that the Dr's appt was just as much his responsibility as hers. If she was not able, he should have picked up the slack. The judge ordered him in September to get jr checked out. In late December, he blamed Crystal for not taking jr that day in the courtroom. He felt she should have missed the court date to take him. What was wrong with the 14 weeks he had jr to take him. It appears to me like rc wants to shift responsibility and Crystal is a likely victim.

 

[Whisperer]

This dr appt thing he brought up in court was another ploy by rc to smear the mother. He did it again that day with the DR and he also blamed her for his not being able to enrolll them in daycare....GMAB!

 

[kellync]

No, it was not when they were together. It was after RC had taken custody of the kids and CS was seeing them on weekends, or when ever she had time. I don't think RC can prevent anyone from getting a driver's license, and since CS obviously did not stay in school, I doubt she even eligible to get a license. And it doesn't matter, taxi's run every day and if the children were on Medicaid, they will provide transportation if it is needed.

It would make things nice and simple if we could twist every.single.thing. to in some way be RC's fault, but it gets ridiculous after awhile.

Curvecuti, you have such a curt tone. I am not attacking. You defend Ron and I try to see all sides, but I dont think it would be "nice and simple" to make every single things Rons fault, but you are so militant in your defense of him. You see it your way and some see it theirs. I dont post here much because I feel some state their opinions and others are flat out bullied if they state theirs, depending on what thread you're on. IMO Haleigh was left in the care of an underaged babysitter coming off of a 3 day drug binge and he was o.k. with that. I start there and work my way out of the circle. According to LE, and I can prob dig up a link, Misty has holes in her timeline. Doesnt change the fact that Ron thought she was responsible enough, and not too "overexhausted" to take care of 2 children under 6. His Grandma and Mother didnt live too far, but no, Misty was trustworthy WTH?..JMO IMO FWIW

 

[kellync]

Questionable judgement IMO
If you have questionable judgement regarding your children, then IMO your judgement is most likely shaky in less important areas also. JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

And since the supposed "drug test" mentioned was only extrapolated from the "drug testing policy" of his short-term employer and never been proven to have been administered to Ron, we do not know that he indeed passed any drug test! There is certainly plenty of circumstantial and anecdotal evidence that his drug use is not merely in his past, or at least not very FAR in his past!

Given what we know about how very young Crystal was when she first moved in with Ron (and TN iirc?), I think it more likely that Crystal's first use falls under your concept of "age and peer-group practices" through her very unfortunate relationship with the older and already drug-involved Ron. Sadly, odds are that both of them still struggle today with their "peer-group practice" of using drugs. Too bad this process started under the roof, care, and jurisdiction of a parent. :banghead:

In the interests of not enabling either one of them, I wouldn't choose to say that Ron is just being "one of the gang" while Crystal alone has "drug addiction issues".

(snip) Agree.

arrot:

 

[OneLove]

This dr appt thing he brought up in court was another ploy by rc to smear the mother. He did it again that day with the DR and he also blamed her for his not being able to enrolll them in daycare....GMAB!

Whisperer, could you tell me more about the "not being able to enroll them in daycare" being Crystal's fault? I missed that one.

But it does not surprise me. A common behavioral characteristic of pathological narcissists is to blame others for everything.

 

[OneLove]

No, it was not when they were together. It was after RC had taken custody of the kids and CS was seeing them on weekends, or when ever she had time.

curvecuti, let me be sure I'm understanding you. You are saying that all those missed doctor's appointments happened AFTER Ron had custody of the kids?

I've never heard of a noncustodial parent who only sees a child every other weekend being responsible for taking the child to regular doctor's appointments.

 

[nomoresorrow]

No, it was not when they were together. It was after RC had taken custody of the kids and CS was seeing them on weekends, or when ever she had time. I don't think RC can prevent anyone from getting a driver's license, and since CS obviously did not stay in school, I doubt she even eligible to get a license. And it doesn't matter, taxi's run every day and if the children were on Medicaid, they will provide transportation if it is needed.

It would make things nice and simple if we could twist every.single.thing. to in some way be RC's fault, but it gets ridiculous after awhile.

Let me get this straight now curvecuti, your countering the claim that Crystal and Ron were together at that time, and therefore Ronald is not responsible for HaLeigh missing her Dr. appointments. You further state that, at that time, Crystal had the kids on the weekends, "or when ever she had time," I suppose to add further validity to your claim - with that said, I don't know too many Dr's that see children on the weekends - outside of a visit to the ER. If anything seems (is) "ridiculous," it would be a parent who has their child/ren thru-out the week; Monday thru Fridays, yet they arrange their Dr. appointments for the weekend... alrightie than - JMHO but talk about the pot calling the kettle black;
Respectfully snipped and BBM);
"It would make things nice and simple if we could twist every.single.thing. to in some way be RC's fault, but it gets ridiculous after awhile."