Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #3

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sunshineray said:
Ok so then is this what he's doing now with his new training exercises? It fits the model just used in Ukraine doesn't it!?

Snipped and BBM

"NATO strengthening Baltic countries
According to de Hoop Scheffer, NATO must quickly strengthen its military presence in the Baltic Sea region. He points to the so-called Suwalki Passage, a 100-kilometre strip of Poland connecting the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad with its ally Belarus, thus forming the only land link between the Baltic states and the rest of NATO. "NATO must be there, if that Suwalki gap is closed, NATO will have a big problem and no more land access to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania."
Click to expand...

The history lessons are extraordinary. We must keep the world engaged, and informed.
I am learning so much here... Thanks Sunshinery, and so many others.
 
Angleterre said:
My son who is 15, (16 this Dec ) wants to join the British Army next year under the junior soldier programme once he’s completed his GCSEs. It is a much easier settling in to Army life because of his age and homesickness etc and they are taught the Army skills but without the brutish sometimes almost bullying behaviour to get them to toughen up. It’s a more relaxed introduction into Army life because obviously when he turns 18, the Army preferably want him to join the regular Army as a soldier ( albeit he doesn’t have to but it’s the chance they take during his student/ cadet ship. ) I am not against the idea because he’s a very intelligent young man but struggles academically because of severe dyslexia and cognitive reasoning issues and no matter how hard he tries, and he does, his school have virtually washed their hands of him over the last couple of months as he heads towards mock GCSEs in preparation for the real thing next year and it’s obvious that it’s because come results day, he won’t add significantly to the Schools success shown on the results table which will be circulated and the school want to protect their high achieving position within these ‘league tables’. It’s sickening and has really affected his confidence as he was in a small group of children with special educational needs for English called ‘sets’ which targeted his needs to help improvement . At the commencement of this academic school year in September gone, without prior notice to any of the boys, they removed all ‘sets’ and told my son that he would be better off sat in with the ‘brainy boys’ as he will learn more from them . He was then given English literature homework which I quote ….
“Contrast the joyous connotation of the juxtaposition of mrs Johnson as she dances with her menial cleaning tools whilst working. “
Include in your answer :
Hyperbole
Stage foreshadowing
Exclamative foreshadowing
Stage direction
He turned to me and said “Mum I haven’t got a clue what they are talking about. I can’t even say some of these words, never mind spell them or know what they mean. He’s so dejected. It’s heartbreaking.
They are not treating him as a young man on the cusp of his life and trying to get the best education that he can. He’s just a number who unfortunately now, has been tossed aside because of the Government led School success league tables. Sorry to go on a little there but my point is that during this time as a junior soldier, more education is given and he has the opportunity to retake and pass his GCSE English. Plus he will get to learn all the skills that the Army offer for example- jumping out of airplanes, teaching him to drive and drive tanks, be educated in firearms and practice using them, and a whole bunch of other interesting stuff plus he will be part of a team who are all starting at the same level and by the time he reaches 18 and joins the regulars, he will already have the fitness and the bed making skills and ironing and bulling his boot skills and basic army training skills so it will not be as daunting for him as what it would be when joining at 18 when you are totally new to that environment and have to learn many of the skills that he will already have by then . It will help him mature and give him good communication skills and the structure will help him immensely as he needs structure in his life. So he’s looking forward to it and therefore I will support him no matter how much I want to keep him wrapped up in cotton wool . However, this situation whereby Russia has invaded Ukraine, has really put it all into perspective for me and my thoughts are already drifting to what if we end up in WW3 as a result of Putins actions right now and my son ends up with a mandatory deployment to war at such a young age. It terrifies me but it’s what he wants to do and I have to let him live his life as he chooses and all that I can do is to guide him and ensure that he knows what is expected of him and that he has options. So it’s gone from being a really good focus for him and still is irrespective of what is happening in Ukraine, with my support to the reality within my mind of potentially what will happen to him and I am already worrying about these possibilities when it’s 12/18 months plus away yet . It’s terrifying to think about. But it’s his life and I will support him.
Click to expand...

Wow @Angleterre Just haven't the right words now. The most important men in my life never finished their basic education, where I'm highly educated on an university level. They are all very intelligent, productive, successful and most of all very beautiful, kind persons. Your son will find his way, there are far more ways to be successful in life. It's not the time and place but we should all ask the question what is being successful in life anyway. And you are right, it's his life. Love and light.
 
Bit of hope said:
I'm not sure this is all of it...but a big part that I remember....and do not take the translation literally...the subtle differences are wipe away in translation.

FORMER NATO CHIEF DE HOOP SCHEFFER: I DO NOT FORESEE A WAR (the question was actually if he thought we were going to have a WWIII)

Today, 14:26Update: today, 15:11

Russian President Vladimir Putin is unpredictable as the leader of a large country with nuclear weapons. That says former NATO boss and Minister of State Jaap de Hoop Scheffer in BNR's Big Five. But, says the former secretary general, Putin also knows that using it means his own end. "I don't foresee a war." According to De Hoop Scheffer, NATO must quickly increase its military presence in the Baltic states.

De Hoop Scheffer calls the Russian invasion of Ukraine 'a turning point', Europe's own 9/11 moment after which everything will be different: from NATO's strategy to increased defense spending. The former NATO chief does not (yet) want to speak of a Third World War, but does point out that things will be completely different if 'Putin decides to put one toe on one square centimeter of NATO territory'.

"Then we have the next phase in the conflict, then NATO as a whole steps into action and then we talk about a completely different situation." According to De Hoop Scheffer, on a scale of 10 we are now at 7.5, in the event of an attack on NATO 'well over nine'.

full of revenge
Asked to what extent he thinks Putin still makes rational decisions, the minister of state says that rationality in Putin's head has given way to revisionism and rancor. He is petulant, resentful and full of vengeance, making him unpredictable as the leader of a large country with nuclear weapons. But he also knows that using it will mean the end.' De Hoop Scheffer therefore does not think that Putin is turning his nuclear threat with nuclear weapons into actual action.

This does not alter the fact that Putin's isolation as leader De Hoop Scheffer is a cause for concern. He went from being an autocrat to a dictator. He withdraws into isolation with a couple of advisers nodding yes, and that is very risqué.' According to the former NATO boss, who speaks from experience, every leader is in a bubble and at the same time every leader should be well aware of it. "Every leader has to watch out for that."

No war
Yet De Hoop Scheffer does not foresee a war. NATO is not going to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Putin knows that, which is why he is untruthful in his propaganda saying that NATO is threatening Russia. Incidentally, he says, Putin is more afraid of the European Union than of NATO. The Union stands for democracy, and that puts the ax to the roots of his regime. "Putin is afraid that Ukraine will become a kind of Poland."

Clumsy Von der Leyen (He did not say this)
Despite all the rhetoric from EU President Ursula von der Leyen, De Hoop Scheffer does not see EU membership for Ukraine happening any time soon. He says Ukraine is a corrupt country (he didn't say this like this at all, there is a lot that they can do better, diplomatic wording) that is far from ready for any accession. He therefore qualified von der Leyen's comments that Ukraine should become a member of the Union more quickly as clumsy (no, that wasn't the wording, it sound very different when you translate straight up...it's like this but in Dutch another meaning/translation). 'That is not what it is about, but the Member States. And it is needlessly an additional irritation for Putin. Don't push him any further into a corner. As an EU, be as proactive as you can be, but talking about membership now is unwise. I think von der Leyen knows that now too.'

NATO strengthening Baltic countries
According to de Hoop Scheffer, NATO must quickly strengthen its military presence in the Baltic Sea region. He points to the so-called Suwalki Passage, a 100-kilometre strip of Poland connecting the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad with its ally Belarus, thus forming the only land link between the Baltic states and the rest of NATO. "NATO must be there, if that Suwalki gap is closed, NATO will have a big problem and no more land access to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania."

New NATO paradigm
If Ukraine is 'rolled up' by Russia, NATO will be bordering a Russian-controlled area. According to De Hoop Scheffer, this means that the entire NATO strategy must be rewritten, although different parameters apply: every European country is aware that defense spending must increase, there is a renewed European solidarity and previously neutral countries such as Finland and Sweden consider joining NATO. The Finnish parliament has voted in favor of membership by a majority.

More NATO, more Europe
'We now need more NATO and more Europe.' According to De Hoop Scheffer, the ultimate security does come from Washington, but this is a 'serious wake-up call'. Because now there is a Biden in the White House, but will there be a Trump there later? "When the wall fell, we sat down in a beach chair with a glass of white wine and we outsourced the defense to the Americans." According to De Hoop Scheffer, we thought, in line with the writer Fukuyama, that we had reached the 'end of history'. "But history is back and we have to rewrite it."

The Chinese twist
Quite unexpectedly, China has offered to mediate in the conflict. It is clear to De Hoop Scheffer: China is upset with this conflict. 'China has its fingers in the door. This was already apparent in the Security Council, where the Chinese did not veto the resolution tabled by the Americans, but abstained from voting. China has no ambition and no need to get into a conflict with the EU. China as a superpower sees this with sorrow, it is an absolute novelty to utter these words. It's too early for that, but it's special. It indicates that China is concerned.'

Taiwan
According to De Hoop Scheffer, China is 'looking very closely' at Biden and the US to see how the Americans will solve this. Because in the background is the Taiwan issue. That's why Joe Biden has sent a senior delegation of former military and political leaders from both the Bush and Obama administrations to Taiwan to meet with the Taiwanese president. That is a warning and a reassurance at the same time. The warning to China is unequivocal: despite a war in Europe, we remain active in the Pacific. So China does not get a license to invade Taiwan. It is also reassuring to Japan and South Korea.

De-escalation via back channels
Finally, De Hoop Scheffer hopes that, as with the Cuban crisis in 1962, there will be a so-called 'back channel' where the US and Russia communicate directly with each other. 'A means must be found along back channels to de-escalate. You have to have a line between people who have access to the presidents. The major risk in this type of conflict is miscommunication. There must be de-escalation.'
Click to expand...

Bit of Hope... This is very critically valuable information. Please explain (re-explain or post) the source.
What language are you reading?
 
<Modsnip -quoted post removed>


The US is concerned about its citizens and its Allies' citizens, still suffering effects from the global pandemic, to hurt them any further by punitive actions just for a big show, imo.

Options to reduce need for Russian gas are very limited short term.



...... Western energy embargoes would be painful for Putin, but he wouldn’t feel their full effects for several years. In the short term—which is what counts during an invasion—Europe and the rest of the world have more to lose.

…..

….. Tensions over Ukraine have already worsened a European fuel-price crisis that began last year due to shortages as the world emerged from the pandemic. Right now in Europe, a megawatt hour of natural gas costs nearly ten times what it did a year ago.

Sanctions on Russian energy would push prices higher globally, and fears that they might be introduced have already had an impact: on Thursday natural gas prices spiked 51% in Europe, and crude oil—of which Russia is the world’s second largest exporter—hit a seven-year high of $105 a barrel.

…. But experts are not ruling out a more aggressive strategy on Russian energy from the E.U. and U.S. as the war in Ukraine unfolds.

…. “But for Europe the [price increases triggered by an embargo] would be prohibitive. The longer they go without Russian gas, the more they run the risk that by next winter there won’t be enough gas in storage, then they have to start cutting demand.” That would mean rationing gas use in some countries.
​
Why Sanctions on Russia Aren't Targeting Oil and Gas



<modsnip - quoted post removed>

Here is more information on the sanctions to better understand the US is working in partnership and agreement with Allies it’s not just a Biden thing.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/02/24/fact-sheet-joined-by-allies-and-partners-the-united-states-imposes-devastating-costs-on-russia/




imo
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ominous

Amid war, an independent Russian radio station goes silent

“Putin lost the war against Ukraine, Putin lost the war with the whole world,” Lev Schlossberg, of Russia’s opposition Yabloko party, said in a statement shared with Al Jazeera.

“Putin has lost everything. The victims and destruction will never be forgiven. The truth about it is unbearable for him. He is furious and very dangerous. Therefore, the last independent media is being destroyed.

“Putin’s Russia is entering the terminal stage, when everything living in our country, everything that resists Putin, will be destroyed.
 
UN Approves Resolution Deploring Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine

A rare special session of the United Nations General Assembly has voted overwhelmingly in favor of a resolution that deplores "in the strongest terms" Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

The resolution, approved on March 2 by 141 members of the 193-member body, demands that Russia immediately stop its war in Ukraine and withdraw all of its troops from Ukrainian territory.

This is a developing story, more to follow:
 
Angleterre said:
My son who is 15, (16 this Dec ) wants to join the British Army next year under the junior soldier programme once he’s completed his GCSEs. It is a much easier settling in to Army life because of his age and homesickness etc and they are taught the Army skills but without the brutish sometimes almost bullying behaviour to get them to toughen up. It’s a more relaxed introduction into Army life because obviously when he turns 18, the Army preferably want him to join the regular Army as a soldier ( albeit he doesn’t have to but it’s the chance they take during his student/ cadet ship. ) I am not against the idea because he’s a very intelligent young man but struggles academically because of severe dyslexia and cognitive reasoning issues and no matter how hard he tries, and he does, his school have virtually washed their hands of him over the last couple of months as he heads towards mock GCSEs in preparation for the real thing next year and it’s obvious that it’s because come results day, he won’t add significantly to the Schools success shown on the results table which will be circulated and the school want to protect their high achieving position within these ‘league tables’. It’s sickening and has really affected his confidence as he was in a small group of children with special educational needs for English called ‘sets’ which targeted his needs to help improvement . At the commencement of this academic school year in September gone, without prior notice to any of the boys, they removed all ‘sets’ and told my son that he would be better off sat in with the ‘brainy boys’ as he will learn more from them . He was then given English literature homework which I quote ….
“Contrast the joyous connotation of the juxtaposition of mrs Johnson as she dances with her menial cleaning tools whilst working. “
Include in your answer :
Hyperbole
Stage foreshadowing
Exclamative foreshadowing
Stage direction
He turned to me and said “Mum I haven’t got a clue what they are talking about. I can’t even say some of these words, never mind spell them or know what they mean. He’s so dejected. It’s heartbreaking.
They are not treating him as a young man on the cusp of his life and trying to get the best education that he can. He’s just a number who unfortunately now, has been tossed aside because of the Government led School success league tables. Sorry to go on a little there but my point is that during this time as a junior soldier, more education is given and he has the opportunity to retake and pass his GCSE English. Plus he will get to learn all the skills that the Army offer for example- jumping out of airplanes, teaching him to drive and drive tanks, be educated in firearms and practice using them, and a whole bunch of other interesting stuff plus he will be part of a team who are all starting at the same level and by the time he reaches 18 and joins the regulars, he will already have the fitness and the bed making skills and ironing and bulling his boot skills and basic army training skills so it will not be as daunting for him as what it would be when joining at 18 when you are totally new to that environment and have to learn many of the skills that he will already have by then . It will help him mature and give him good communication skills and the structure will help him immensely as he needs structure in his life. So he’s looking forward to it and therefore I will support him no matter how much I want to keep him wrapped up in cotton wool . However, this situation whereby Russia has invaded Ukraine, has really put it all into perspective for me and my thoughts are already drifting to what if we end up in WW3 as a result of Putins actions right now and my son ends up with a mandatory deployment to war at such a young age. It terrifies me but it’s what he wants to do and I have to let him live his life as he chooses and all that I can do is to guide him and ensure that he knows what is expected of him and that he has options. So it’s gone from being a really good focus for him and still is irrespective of what is happening in Ukraine, with my support to the reality within my mind of potentially what will happen to him and I am already worrying about these possibilities when it’s 12/18 months plus away yet . It’s terrifying to think about. But it’s his life and I will support him.
Click to expand...

Dear dear Mother.... my heart beats with you.... Europe is always so close to the the big conflicts. Hearing from my European friends is just so different than us talking among ourselves here in the US. The reality IS sinking in to a large degree here.... but the silence is deafening as to who is not talking at all about this.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
Bit of Hope... This is very critically valuable information. Please explain (re-explain or post) the source.
What language are you reading?
Click to expand...

This was on the Dutch radio today...De Hoop Scheffer was the guest in this episode to explain things that are going on in the Russia-Ukraine conflict. He is Dutch...in the episode they were - of course- talking Dutch.

Rusland en Oekraïne | Jaap de Hoop Scheffer

BNR app Spotify Apple Podcasts

Tried to find some kind of translation or an transcript. I found that what I have posted upthread.
 
Another good article from The Telegraph UK

Litvinenko widow tells Roman Abramovich: give Chelsea profits to Ukraine to prove you're no Putin foil

It's behind a waywall, but the gist of the story is included. Marina Litvinenko is the widow of Russian defector Alexander Litvinenko who was poisoned by Russian agents with the polonium tea and suffered a long, lingering death

Litvinenko widow tells Roman Abramovich: give Chelsea profits to Ukraine to prove you're no Putin foil

"My husband was absolutely furious when he realised how easy it is for people who benefited from unfair business in Russia to receive everything in the UK"

""My advice is, if Roman Abramovich wants people to see him as a human, with this money, he might donate to the Ukrainian fight for liberty, for their country, for their language, for everything,'' she said. "Then I would understand why he tries to sell Chelsea."
 
Jade said:
The US is concerned about its citizens and its Allies' citizens, still suffering effects from the global pandemic, to hurt them any further by punitive actions just for a big show, imo.

Options to reduce need for Russian gas are very limited short term.



...... Western energy embargoes would be painful for Putin, but he wouldn’t feel their full effects for several years. In the short term—which is what counts during an invasion—Europe and the rest of the world have more to lose.

…..

….. Tensions over Ukraine have already worsened a European fuel-price crisis that began last year due to shortages as the world emerged from the pandemic. Right now in Europe, a megawatt hour of natural gas costs nearly ten times what it did a year ago.

Sanctions on Russian energy would push prices higher globally, and fears that they might be introduced have already had an impact: on Thursday natural gas prices spiked 51% in Europe, and crude oil—of which Russia is the world’s second largest exporter—hit a seven-year high of $105 a barrel.

…. But experts are not ruling out a more aggressive strategy on Russian energy from the E.U. and U.S. as the war in Ukraine unfolds.

…. “But for Europe the [price increases triggered by an embargo] would be prohibitive. The longer they go without Russian gas, the more they run the risk that by next winter there won’t be enough gas in storage, then they have to start cutting demand.” That would mean rationing gas use in some countries.
​
Why Sanctions on Russia Aren't Targeting Oil and Gas



I agree the Book of Job does seem relevant for the President considering how horrible the morale and health of the US was when he came into office he has remained faithful.

Here is more information on the sanctions to better understand the US is working in partnership and agreement with Allies it’s not just a Biden thing.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/02/24/fact-sheet-joined-by-allies-and-partners-the-united-states-imposes-devastating-costs-on-russia/




imo
Click to expand...

I've heard over and over again on the news over the last two weeks that U.S. oil producers are prepared to increase production at significant rates that would allow us to ban Russian oil, but that the government has turned down this offer which would enable us to boycott Russian oil.
 
Sundog said:
I've heard over and over again on the news over the last two weeks that U.S. oil producers are prepared to increase production at significant rates that would allow us to ban Russian oil, but that the government has turned down this offer which would enable us to boycott Russian oil.
Click to expand...

Umm. Can we buy Canadian oil, instead?
 
Herat said:
Ominous

Amid war, an independent Russian radio station goes silent

“Putin lost the war against Ukraine, Putin lost the war with the whole world,” Lev Schlossberg, of Russia’s opposition Yabloko party, said in a statement shared with Al Jazeera.

“Putin has lost everything. The victims and destruction will never be forgiven. The truth about it is unbearable for him. He is furious and very dangerous. Therefore, the last independent media is being destroyed.

“Putin’s Russia is entering the terminal stage, when everything living in our country, everything that resists Putin, will be destroyed.
Click to expand...

Seriously, thank god for the internet and social media and mobile phones and all those things in modern society which enable the truth to be cascaded worldwide.

Imagine, during the first two world wars, people only really obtained news from the actual newspapers on sale in their country.

I hope enough Russians are hearing and understanding the truth of what’s happening and the implications for their country, and not just what their government wants them to hear.
 
Noticing a US Air Force Lockheed Martin low-level flight off the northwest coast of Sweden. Flew out of a UK location

Best to have eyes everywhere.

Some USAF planes around Alaska.
 
Last edited:
CoverMeCagney said:
Seriously, thank god for the internet and social media and mobile phones and all those things in modern society which enable the truth to be cascaded worldwide.

Imagine, during the first two world wars, people only really obtained news from the actual newspapers on sale in their country.

I hope enough Russians are hearing and understanding the truth of what’s happening and the implications for their country, and not just what their government wants them to hear.
Click to expand...
They live in a country where the president for life assasinates the opposition candidatee.
 
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