Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #11

[jjleroche]

AFAIK this was all speculation - possible trails on the property that he rode his motorbike on, possible work undertaken at the property as fairly new and large outbuildings were a recent addition etc. I don't believe anything was ever proven, just the imagination of Web Sleuthers.

Aha. Thank you for that information HoneyBunOne.

 

[Trooper]

Side note - Can I ask why is there zero updates on the family ? Surely they’ve been spotted somewhere within Australia by someone . Wouldn’t media have been wanting a scoop? Or gag order ?

edited by me for focus....

One way to tell if people are locked in for testimony at a trial is, the Women's Weekly does not do a four page spread on them, ' I lived with a killer'....' He was good with the horses'.. this kind of thing.. TV, press, Tabloids, all come under the umbrella of it. Gag orders are normal in AU, for a whole lot of reasons, sometimes called a D notice, for 'DESIST'..

There is no need for updates on his family, they are citizens entitled to their privacy, ditto Mick Murphy and his children, any drops to the press are by choice of Mick, and not 'scoops'.. Ditto, the girlfriend. Anyone extracting an interview with her with the idea of publishing it would be subject to sanctions by the court, and very quickly, too.

The legal basis for this is, VICPOL are in charge of info that is required by the Supreme Court. and crossing that line is subject to rather harsh penalties.. Its all a matter of wbo has the authority ... similar to the situation, should they find Mrs Murphy's remains, the minute they are found , they go out of the authority of VICPOL and then come under the auspices of the State Coroner, not the police, not even Mick, they remain so until the Coroner decides to release them to the family..

 

[jjleroche]

edited by me for focus....

One way to tell if people are locked in for testimony at a trial is, the Women's Weekly does not do a four page spread on them, ' I lived with a killer'....' He was good with the horses'.. this kind of thing.. TV, press, Tabloids, all come under the umbrella of it. Gag orders are normal in AU, for a whole lot of reasons, sometimes called a D notice, for 'DESIST'..

There is no need for updates on his family, they are citizens entitled to their privacy, ditto Mick Murphy and his children, any drops to the press are by choice of Mick, and not 'scoops'.. Ditto, the girlfriend. Anyone extracting an interview with her with the idea of publishing it would be subject to sanctions by the court, and very quickly, too.

The legal basis for this is, VICPOL are in charge of info that is required by the Supreme Court. and crossing that line is subject to rather harsh penalties.. Its all a matter of wbo has the authority ... similar to the situation, should they find Mrs Murphy's remains, the minute they are found , they go out of the authority of VICPOL and then come under the auspices of the State Coroner, not the police, not even Mick, they remain so until the Coroner decides to release them to the family..

IMO it's rather comforting to know that such sanctions are in place. The thought of the media placing further pressure on the bereaved, and the loved ones of PS, in order to publish a story for which they hope to gain financial benefit is utterly repugnant. There are stronger words which I could use, but I'll refrain...

I cannot imagine how horrific this whole experience has been (obviously for Samantha but) also for her loved ones - also for the loved ones of the accused.

It's never going to be over in terms of their loss and grief, but the ordeal of a trial if PS pleads not guilty is IMO going to be a huge mountain to climb, but necessary in the pursuit of justice for Samantha.

Hopefully the trial, if it proceeds, may have some effect in curtailing similar activities of others considering committing major crimes.

JMO

 

[callmehenry]

I know this isn’t going to happen but part of me is still really hoping that Samantha just walks back through the door. That this was all some big mistake somehow and she’s actually alive and well. Yes, I know it’s probably stretching the boundaries of reality but wouldn’t it be wonderful if it did happen.

 

[Warshawski]

If this comes down to sentencing, and he still hasn't said where Samantha is, is it likely that the Judge will make his sentence longer or the maximum. Or will the 'no body, no parole' come into play? Seems so unfair to the family if they have to wait any further! Or is this leverage for a plea deal. I tell you where her body is, if you give me manslaughter? Just me wondering.

If he was to say where her body is, imo that’s an admission of guilt ( or involvement at least ).
hasn’t entered any plea as yet so ( from purely a legal perspective) I wouldn’t expect to hear that info from him.
I think he will have to enter a Plea at next hearing (when defence will have all he information they were chasing ) or else the Judge will enter a Not Guilty plea on his behalf.

Having said that, I think he’d be pretty close to being out of time for any plea bargaining. The basis of the No Body, No Parole laws was to ensure that murders co-operate with police to end the torment of families and return the remains of their loved ones to them so they can be laid to rest with dignity & respect, IMO. SM’s family has been suffering through almost 8 months of ‘torment’ and I think that will count for something, even if he does eventually fess up.

 

[AussieSherlock]

edited by me for focus....

One way to tell if people are locked in for testimony at a trial is, the Women's Weekly does not do a four page spread on them, ' I lived with a killer'....' He was good with the horses'.. this kind of thing.. TV, press, Tabloids, all come under the umbrella of it. Gag orders are normal in AU, for a whole lot of reasons, sometimes called a D notice, for 'DESIST'..

There is no need for updates on his family, they are citizens entitled to their privacy, ditto Mick Murphy and his children, any drops to the press are by choice of Mick, and not 'scoops'.. Ditto, the girlfriend. Anyone extracting an interview with her with the idea of publishing it would be subject to sanctions by the court, and very quickly, too.

The legal basis for this is, VICPOL are in charge of info that is required by the Supreme Court. and crossing that line is subject to rather harsh penalties.. Its all a matter of wbo has the authority ... similar to the situation, should they find Mrs Murphy's remains, the minute they are found , they go out of the authority of VICPOL and then come under the auspices of the State Coroner, not the police, not even Mick, they remain so until the Coroner decides to release them to the family..

Thanks , great explanation.

And I hope the families get their privacy I was just surprised tabloids wouldn’t be slimy and try and get a scoop but your explanation makes sense thank you Trooper

 

[Warshawski]

Was the ping at 5pm off the Buninyong tower, south of the search area ever confirmed by police do we know?

Because I’m just plotting some things in a Google map and maybe I’m wrong with my locations (?) but was the Scotsburn house he was staying at here ?:30 Yendon No 2 Rd · Scotsburn, Victoria

And am I correct in thinking the telecommunications tower is here? 37°39'17.7"S 143°55'26.9"E
(Note: I found this by searching phone tower address list for Buninyong and getting these coordinates..)
I did also read on several news articles about the Buninyong Golf course being the place it pinged but wouldn’t it be the tower in Buninying ? Maybe someone can confirm does it ping at the tower or could have pinged at the golf course or somewhere else if anyone can confirm ?

If the tower needs to be close to pickup signal then am I seeing this correctly that the Scotsburn house and the tower are really really close to one another ?

(See image attached) I’ve put a yellow star for each location. Too right one is the tower. Close right?

So IF that’s the case then the accused could have had her or the mobile phone or both in the vehicle at the Scotsburn house , when it pinged at 5pm, and then perhaps he drove to dispose of both or either.

Also as a side q, was the girlfriend out with him the night before ? Why didn’t he just taxi home and not take his car if it is true his vehicle was in the bush .? Hmmmm…

I don’t think either that last ‘ping’ at 5pm, nor the associated Tower, was ever officially publicly confirmed by Police - it was stated by media however, and I think was stated quite early on in the search ??

It’s many years since I worked in mobile telecoms, however imo basically a turned-on mobile phone communicates every few seconds with the strongest Tower signal it attracts - which usually is the nearest Tower. Towers are responsible for managing a network of Cells ( areas vary - less in cities, bigger areas in rural areas) To drill further into a particular phone location, Police use something called ‘triangulation’ between the various towers.

Re the activities of the night before Samantha’s disappearance - I think the more credible report is that he was at a family birthday party (of an more mature female family member I think ) and the story was that he left his car there.

Just all my personal thoughts ….

 

[emirates1957]

But honestly,
who would be so...stupid?...naive?...
to become an accessory to crime?

Loyalty has its limits IMO.
To ruin one's life to "help" a mate?
To risk landing in prison?
To have criminal record?


Besides,
the body has not been found.
This imaginary "helper" must have nerves of steel not to confess already,
even only to reduce the charge.
(Not to mention pangs of conscience)

Nah,
I think the crime was committed solely by ONE person.
And it means concealing the victim too.

Considering the terrain,
poor Samantha can be anywhere.

JMO

Yes, and yes.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

But honestly,
who would be so...stupid?...naive?...
to become an accessory to crime?

Loyalty has its limits IMO.
To ruin one's life to "help" a mate?
To risk landing in prison?
To have criminal record?


Besides,
the body has not been found.
This imaginary "helper" must have nerves of steel not to confess already,
even only to reduce the charge.
(Not to mention pangs of conscience)

Nah,
I think the crime was committed solely by ONE person.
And it means concealing the victim too.

Considering the terrain,
poor Samantha can be anywhere.

JMO

Who knows ?

But he might have got himself into trouble and was told to do it over finances/drugs ?
He and his family might be under protection until the trial before he 'opens up' and possibly rolls over ?
He could plead manslaughter and say someone was standing over me to kill her, or I was going to be shot, and my family's safety was at risk If I didn't kill her etc..

I am just getting a feeling though, he doesn't seem too distraught staying in prison, especially after five months, maybe he feels more safe in there ?

The police's position and prosecution's case is always a theory of some sort that they attempt to prove. So that he acted and acted alone is just that - a theory.

Things can change, too, as more evidence is collected.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Who knows ?

But he might have got himself into trouble and was told to do it over finances/drugs ?
He and his family might be under protection until the trial before he 'opens up' and possibly rolls over ?
He could plead manslaughter and say someone was standing over me to kill her, or I was going to be shot, and my family's safety was at risk If I didn't kill her etc..

I am just getting a feeling though, he doesn't seem too distraught staying in prison, especially after five months, maybe he feels more safe in there ?

The police's position and prosecution's case is always a theory of some sort that they attempt to prove. So that he acted and acted alone is just that - a theory.

Things can change, too, as more evidence is collected.

Bold by me.

Maybe he does feel safe in there, but not necessarily for the reasons you are thinking. Life in there is definitely different, and may offer some degree of "safety". Don't forget he comes from a "large small town", where everyone seems to be connected by a few degrees of separation. In the real world, his girlfriend (whether they're still together or not) may look at him differently, his mates shun him, everyone would stare and whisper in the street etc. Who knows if his parents and family have turned their backs on him? If not, he may be able to resume his career in some town miles away, preferably wherever his parents have uprooted to. If they have shunned him, then what? Totally start again somewhere else and reassess his life choices?

Yes, he may definitely feel somewhat safe and protected in there, if just to be able to bury his head in the sand and not think of what happens after the trial.

MOO of course.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Bold by me.

Maybe he does feel safe in there, but not necessarily for the reasons you are thinking. Life in there is definitely different, and may offer some degree of "safety". Don't forget he comes from a "large small town", where everyone seems to be connected by a few degrees of separation. In the real world, his girlfriend (whether they're still together or not) may look at him differently, his mates shun him, everyone would stare and whisper in the street etc. Who knows if his parents and family have turned their backs on him? If not, he may be able to resume his career in some town miles away, preferably wherever his parents have uprooted to. If they have shunned him, then what? Totally start again somewhere else and reassess his life choices?

Yes, he may definitely feel somewhat safe and protected in there, if just to be able to bury his head in the sand and not think of what happens after the trial.

MOO of course.

He also might feel safe in there If there is more to this, and supposedly spills the beans before his supposedly trial and names people that might have helped after the fact. Then this puts his family and himself at risk of danger.
We won't know until Nov

The death of Carl Williams was another example, the underworld drug trafficker, at the time of his murder inside prison. Although the information that Williams provided was supposed to be strictly confidential as Williams was acting as an informant, assisting police in their investigation, he was killed by an associate within the prison.

 

[AussieSherlock]

He also might feel safe in there If there is more to this, and supposedly spills the beans before his supposedly trial and names people that might have helped after the fact. Then this puts his family and himself at risk of danger.
We won't know until Nov

The death of Carl Williams was another example, the underworld drug trafficker, at the time of his murder inside prison. Although the information that Williams provided was supposed to be strictly confidential as Williams was acting as an informant, assisting police in their investigation, he was killed by an associate within the prison.

Agree, and IF he is say linked to a group such as the neo nazi’s which again is my hunch (again the hand gesture he made in the high school photo, the Ballarat NN march through the streets (in his local area but of course no proof to say he was amongst them), the violent bush attacks in Grampian on hikers by the NN group etc and the fact many of those boys in that group were seen around town in the Grampians back then were suspected as being just 16,17 or 18 years old).

And re; prison safety - I found this article from Aug 2021: The National Socialist Network: Inside Australia’s Neo-Nazi underbelly

“… One is Danny, a man we later identify as Daniel Newman. He’s a senior Australian member of the ultra-violent and secretive international neo-Nazi terror group Combat 18, which has been banned in both Canada and the UK. Sewell tells Insider No.2 that Newman is the National Socialists’ link to skinhead gangs in Victorian jails. Any network member who found themselves inside had been promised protection.


“Danny said don’t stress, we have got Excalibur,” Sewell says, referring to a “shank [makeshift knife] apparently, like, this long”.

“They called Danny recently and I am the most loved and hated man in Barwon prison,”

—
Maybe of course unrelated but IF he is linked to these types of people there are some dangerous characters. Perhaps he is protected in there or perhaps the opposite IF linked. Ie he could spill the beans on secrets from within the NN group (identities shared, information given over etc) . Perhaps he is worried of his own safety if the case. Perhaps this is why he is staying silent now until the case - because right now he may be more freely walking around in remand , and it’s more unsafe for him to be attacked if he starts being seen as giving info or naming names or similar.

Or maybe I’m off on wrong tangent of course and he is just praying his staying silent pays off and they don’t have enough to charge him. And then his staying fully silent may be his biggest protection In main prison after the trial and earns him respect by fellow inmates and the insiders of that group look out for him in there ….

And if he isn’t a NN then regardless I think in main prison after trial if found guilty he may be concerned for his safety anyway (young 22 year old well to do family , high profile case, attacks a woman, wouldn’t probably go down too well in there and he would be likely picked on I imagine?).

I’m very curious to hear if there is any link here with our suspect to these groups come November

JMOO

 

[Dotta]

Agree, and IF he is say linked to a group such as the neo nazi’s which again is my hunch (again the hand gesture he made in the high school photo, the Ballarat NN march through the streets (in his local area but of course no proof to say he was amongst them), the violent bush attacks in Grampian on hikers by the NN group etc and the fact many of those boys in that group were seen around town in the Grampians back then were suspected as being just 16,17 or 18 years old).

And re; prison safety - I found this article from Aug 2021: The National Socialist Network: Inside Australia’s Neo-Nazi underbelly

“… One is Danny, a man we later identify as Daniel Newman. He’s a senior Australian member of the ultra-violent and secretive international neo-Nazi terror group Combat 18, which has been banned in both Canada and the UK. Sewell tells Insider No.2 that Newman is the National Socialists’ link to skinhead gangs in Victorian jails. Any network member who found themselves inside had been promised protection.


“Danny said don’t stress, we have got Excalibur,” Sewell says, referring to a “shank [makeshift knife] apparently, like, this long”.

“They called Danny recently and I am the most loved and hated man in Barwon prison,”

—
Maybe of course unrelated but IF he is linked to these types of people there are some dangerous characters. Perhaps he is protected in there or perhaps the opposite IF linked. Ie he could spill the beans on secrets from within the NN group (identities shared, information given over etc) . Perhaps he is worried of his own safety if the case. Perhaps this is why he is staying silent now until the case - because right now he may be more freely walking around in remand , and it’s more unsafe for him to be attacked if he starts being seen as giving info or naming names or similar.

Or maybe I’m off on wrong tangent of course and he is just praying his staying silent pays off and they don’t have enough to charge him. And then his staying fully silent may be his biggest protection In main prison after the trial and earns him respect by fellow inmates and the insiders of that group look out for him in there ….

And if he isn’t a NN then regardless I think in main prison after trial if found guilty he may be concerned for his safety anyway (young 22 year old well to do family , high profile case, attacks a woman, wouldn’t probably go down too well in there and he would be likely picked on I imagine?).

I’m very curious to hear if there is any link here with our suspect to these groups come November

JMOO

It all sounds like suspense/thriller novel to me

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction.

 

[AussieSherlock]

It all sounds like suspense/thriller novel to me

true but also is a possibility he is linked to them and then that would explain why he isn’t talking or feels at risk in jail if did …. JMOO. We shall see!

 

[drsleuth]

true but also is a possibility he is linked to them and then that would explain why he isn’t talking or feels at risk in jail if did …. JMOO. We shall see!

Or he is just another alleged low life murderer who doesn't care & holding his secrets close to his chest, all the while torturing the family of Sam.

Nothing special about him.

IMO

I'm not sure why people think he would be talking.

 

[Trooper]

Or he is just another alleged low life murderer who doesn't care & holding his secrets close to his chest, all the while torturing the family of Sam.

Nothing special about him.

IMO

I'm not sure why people think he would be talking.

Just your common or garden killer ... the odds are more likely. It is difficult to believe that VICPOL would allow an organised gang of killers of running women to roam around gathering adherents, across Victoria. The Qanon and the neo nazi turkey gobblers are carefully watched , they don't get away with much, a few ridiculous marches, a bit of heiling in the Grampians, lots of dressing up in black shorts etc... it keeps them occupied.

Usually , the point of murder by gangs organised along political grounds wish to make their successes known, otherwise .there is no point. To accrue more devotees, one must project a picture of success. . It's not done in silence . Why Mrs Murphy?

I am not sure , either, why it is supposed he would talk to police. Obviously, his silence means a lot to him , ,it all has major significance to him, not to say it makes sense to any one else, , but it does, to him. He is not the first, he won't be the last to keep this silence to his grave. It has meaning to him.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Just your common or garden killer ... the odds are more likely. It is difficult to believe that VICPOL would allow an organised gang of killers of running women to roam around gathering adherents, across Victoria. The Qanon and the neo nazi turkey gobblers are carefully watched , they don't get away with much, a few ridiculous marches, a bit of heiling in the Grampians, lots of dressing up in black shorts etc... it keeps them occupied.

Usually , the point of murder by gangs organised along political grounds wish to make their successes known, otherwise .there is no point. To accrue more devotees, one must project a picture of success. . It's not done in silence . Why Mrs Murphy?

I am not sure , either, why it is supposed he would talk to police. Obviously, his silence means a lot to him , ,it all has major significance to him, not to say it makes sense to any one else, , but it does, to him. He is not the first, he won't be the last to keep this silence to his grave. It has meaning to him.

But we also don't know for sure he's not talking.

If he made an admission to someone else, he could claim any number of things about said admission, and it may still be to his benefit in this situation to not say or reveal anything.
And we wouldn't know at this point because it would form part of the brief of evidence his lawyer would likely assess before advising him what to do (which he is free to ignore).
We won't necessarily know about anything like that until the first hearing.
But he's entitled to a trial under any circumstances, but it would be very unusual for there to be a trial if someone made a full, frank and voluntary confession to police.
Anything can happen in the next couple of months

 

[Trooper]

But we also don't know for sure he's not talking.

If he made an admission to someone else, he could claim any number of things about said admission, and it may still be to his benefit in this situation to not say or reveal anything.
And we wouldn't know at this point because it would form part of the brief of evidence his lawyer would likely assess before advising him what to do (which he is free to ignore).
We won't necessarily know about anything like that until the first hearing.
But he's entitled to a trial under any circumstances, but it would be very unusual for there to be a trial if someone made a full, frank and voluntary confession to police.
Anything can happen in the next couple of months

It is reasonable to presume that he did not tell his Barrister about the CCTV. He , himself , may not have known, depending on how it was taken , and retrieved. His counsel appeared to be a bit shellshocked at the quantity , and probably, the quality of the matters disclosed by the prosecution. It is reasonable to assume he is not talking to police. It is unusual if he is not on speakies with his own barrister, that presents monumental problems all round.

It would be redundant and a total waste of the courts time and resources if there were to be a trial if he did, indeed, make a full and frank confession. That would preclude and negate the reason for a trial, the judge would go straight to sentencing. He would get some pro rata discount on his eventual parole date, at this point probably a months worth, instead of years, because the entire point of pleading guilty is to not waste the courts time and money. He is, anyone is , rewarded somewhat for that. But it is not essential, depending on the public perception of the crime, some crimes just do not get that discount, guilty or not guilty plea.


It is really not a matter of anything can happen, logically, some things can be ruled out. He may suddenly desire to blab about everything. I doubt this, because it appears to sustain him, and there are not many rewards, or favours he can expect at this point. VICPOL will never give up on the search for Mrs Murphy's body, he knows this, his barrister would tell him this, it's only a matter of time.

His crime is , in the public perception, so hideous that the judge would be reluctant to decree any discount no matter what he pleads. guilty or not. No one is going to bargain the charges down in the hopes of getting access to Mrs Murphy's body, , this is not going to happen, VICPOL will not bargain with a murderer. He is not going to have any say as to where he serves his sentence. He is not going to have any input into what treatment for any health problems he may claim to have. He is not going to be able to choose which level of custodial observation he will be placed under, and so on. lots of stuff like this.

It is not unreasonable to presume he will not make any statements about this murder. This is not the usual, but it is also not unknown. My own perception is, he may have bragged to someone in Remand, and this will be exposed come trial time. Remand is a lonely occupation, one is neither one thing, nor the other, but one is locked up , with people one would not usually break bread with, one is away from home and family, from one's regular routine, it's all very stressful , and he is very young, in that respect. He may, just may, crack on about it to someone sympatico.

 

[Warshawski]

It is reasonable to presume that he did not tell his Barrister about the CCTV. He , himself , may not have known, depending on how it was taken , and retrieved. His counsel appeared to be a bit shellshocked at the quantity , and probably, the quality of the matters disclosed by the prosecution. It is reasonable to assume he is not talking to police. It is unusual if he is not on speakies with his own barrister, that presents monumental problems all round.

It would be redundant and a total waste of the courts time and resources if there were to be a trial if he did, indeed, make a full and frank confession. That would preclude and negate the reason for a trial, the judge would go straight to sentencing. He would get some pro rata discount on his eventual parole date, at this point probably a months worth, instead of years, because the entire point of pleading guilty is to not waste the courts time and money. He is, anyone is , rewarded somewhat for that. But it is not essential, depending on the public perception of the crime, some crimes just do not get that discount, guilty or not guilty plea.


It is really not a matter of anything can happen, logically, some things can be ruled out. He may suddenly desire to blab about everything. I doubt this, because it appears to sustain him, and there are not many rewards, or favours he can expect at this point. VICPOL will never give up on the search for Mrs Murphy's body, he knows this, his barrister would tell him this, it's only a matter of time.

His crime is , in the public perception, so hideous that the judge would be reluctant to decree any discount no matter what he pleads. guilty or not. No one is going to bargain the charges down in the hopes of getting access to Mrs Murphy's body, , this is not going to happen, VICPOL will not bargain with a murderer. He is not going to have any say as to where he serves his sentence. He is not going to have any input into what treatment for any health problems he may claim to have. He is not going to be able to choose which level of custodial observation he will be placed under, and so on. lots of stuff like this.

It is not unreasonable to presume he will not make any statements about this murder. This is not the usual, but it is also not unknown. My own perception is, he may have bragged to someone in Remand, and this will be exposed come trial time. Remand is a lonely occupation, one is neither one thing, nor the other, but one is locked up , with people one would not usually break bread with, one is away from home and family, from one's regular routine, it's all very stressful , and he is very young, in that respect. He may, just may, crack on about it to someone sympatico.

I wondered whether VICPOL would put someone in there to befriend him, in an attempt to find her body, but if they did that, it seems it hasn’t worked so far.